The Brahma Bull
Sr Member
Sorry apple and pears. And I'm done. It's like "No, my car isn't blue, her look at the photo" - "Dude, totally blue car".
If that are her motivations, the trilogy is over.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
- Start date
Sorry apple and pears. And I'm done. It's like "No, my car isn't blue, her look at the photo" - "Dude, totally blue car".
If that are her motivations, the trilogy is over.
sztriki
Sr Member
Yup. Again, 2 minutes of expository dialogue could have given some depth and meaning to both the situation and the character. Cut the walrustits, add some more meaningful interaction between Luke and Rey and say something like "after the turn of Ben I started to doubt everything, so I came here where the Jedi started to find answers, looked at the ancient scrolls, went to that dark cave and came to the conclusion that I must not return and get involved, bladibla".
Also, I mightr have missed it coz I've only seen it once, but Luke cut himself off from the force, right? So how could he sense that Rey went to the dark cave instantly when they had their first lesson? Is it just a flip of a switch that he got the force back, or did he just let a little force in and then cut off again, or what...It would have been more interesting if Luke decides to help but haven't used the force so long that he actually needs to get back in business and while he helps Rey he learns new things about himself and the force too. You know, just a bit of character development...
Nobody threw a red herring, it was perfectly in context. Rose's (and thus the film's) message is "save the ones you love instead of killing the ones you hate". What I think of this message is irrelevant to present discussion. So what you were saying is that Holdo telling Poe the escape plan and Poe saying "this is a bad plan, I'm gonna whack them FO (kill the ones he hates) instead of packing up and fleeing (saving the ones he loves)" is silly and the way it played out in the movie is not silly?
But at that point all Luke said is that he's gonna face Ren and he can't bring him back. Not a word or a mention about the Resistance getting away. And at that point literally nobody knew about the back-door escape in the cave. All they knew that they are trapped and that Luke's going to face Ren. If Luke knew that there was an escape route why didn't he tell them? Luke bought them 3 minutes. So if Luke didn't turn up they would have seen the anime foxes running anyway and at that point it would not have made that massive a difference if there's 600 or 60 metres between the Falcon and the FO, as the walkers were already pretty darn far from the cave.
I haven't seen Brick but I'll check it out and I've only seen Looper once which I liked but thinking back there's a scene with Ryan Gosling and Bruce Willis in a cafe with Gosling acting as the audience surrogate asking questions about the timeline and stuff. Bruce Willis just says something like "look kid, we can sit and blabber on all day, but we won't find an explanation, the main thing is that we're here". At first I thought it was a clever ironic way of mocking time-travel movies. In hindsight it feels like a sarcastic comment masking bad screenwriting.
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DocWalker
New Member
The location of the first Jedi Temple on Ahch-To wasn't readily known to everyone and was basically lost and forgotten in time, which is why Luke said that he went to the "most unfindable place in the galaxy." The reason why Luke was able to find it was shown in the TLJ Visual Dictionary, where it said that he studied the "spread of uneti saplings," which are the saplings of Force trees, like the Force tree that was in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, the saplings that Luke found in Shattered Empire (the canon comic that took place after ROTJ), and the actual Force tree that was found on Ahch-To. If the first Jedi temple on Ahch-To was fast or easy to find and sense, the Emperor would have found it and destroyed it like he did to many of the various Jedi temples located throughout the galaxy during the time of the Empire.
Also, in TFA, Han said that there were a lot of rumors and stories about where Luke went after Ben turned, saying that "the people who knew him the best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple." He didn't go there for knowledge or anything, as the TLJ Visual Dictionary revealed that the ancient Jedi texts that were in the Force tree on Ahch-To came from Luke himself, as it said that "Luke's travels allowed him to collect and assemble ancient scriptures containing lost Jedi wisdom and abilities." Essentially, he went to the first Jedi Temple on Ahch-To to die, as he said in the movie, and to bring the entire Jedi order full circle by bringing the ancient Jedi texts he had found in his journeys throughout the years back to their origin and dying as "the last Jedi" where the Jedi Order began all those years ago.
Lastly, Luke didn't leave behind anything, especially a map to where he was. The map in TFA wasn't a map to Luke in case anyone wanted to find him; it was a map to the last believed location of Luke, which was the first Jedi Temple. That's why Kylo said in TFA during Rey's interrogation that they had recovered the majority of the map (to the Jedi temple, not to Luke himself) from the archives of the Empire, but they needed the last piece that BB-8 was carrying.
Hope all this helped clarify some stuff.
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JD
Master Member
See this post here. No apology coming from me - I'm well aware of the actual context of what I've written. And I don't need someone with their pseudo anti-SJW post to point it out. If there's any apology it's because I sunk down to a level that you guys keep harping on a few of us to get at. But, I won't apologize for calling a bitch a bitch.
I'm not someone that's miserable and keeps coming back here to bitch and whine about the movie that obviously so many enjoyed. It's a shame that you and a few others didn't like the movie, I understand that want to discuss what you thought went wrong with it. But, it's already moved beyond that - so many of you seem to get off on knocking on others enjoyment of the movies. At what point do you start acting like adults about it all?
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PantheraGem
Sr Member
Like I keep bringing up, if people are still complaining about the PT nearly 19 years later, I doubt they're going to stop bitching, and magically start enjoying TLJ 3 weeks after it's release.
Also, just to clarify, are you saying those that have major issues with TLJ are misogynists, to an extent, and that's the reason they can't enjoy the movie?
JD
Master Member
I don't disagree with the former. On the latter, no - that's not what I said or was my intention to imply (that was directed at one individual's thinly veiled attempt to mischaracterize my use of the word "bitch").
jlee562
Sr Member
Well, you're the one saying things shown on screen didn't happen, so if that's your analogy, dude, watch the movie.
Whether or not Rose saving Finn is "silly," has nothing to do with Poe and Holdo.
What I'm saying is that your "fix" to the supposedly "silly" writing doesn't really fix anything.
In the film as is, Poe being rebuffed is what motivates him to try to go around Holdo to save the fleet. He stages a mutiny, which sets up Leia's return in the narrative.
Here's why I asked if your rewrite includes Canto Bight, unless you're rewriting the whole third act, Poe throwing a fit after he learns of the plan, makes less sense than him being mad for not being told the plan. Given the setup of the first act, they're running out of fuel, they can make one jump, but they're being tracked. So if Poe's brilliant plan is still gonna be Canto Bight, that means he stages a mutiny because he doesn't like the chain of command and not being told things that are on a "need to know" basis as opposed to someone who feels forced into the mutiny to save everyone.
This made me giggle a bit as I pictured the guys from "Red Letter Media" reading this description of "Uneti Saplings" out loud like their Darth Vader click bait video (His helmet was polished by "woodoo hide" kids, and his right glove was a "Mandalorian crushgaunt" fitted around one of Lord Kaan's indestructible "Sith amulets", and modified to include grip-augmentation circuitry...).
We do have some pretty goofy concepts used to fill in the blanks left by the films in the "Star Wars Universe", when you look at it objectively
.Reach out and follow the "Force-Sensitive Pine Cones" home my friends...
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Boy, I am totally ay a loss as to how this franchise can gain traction in the Chinese market. This isn't a problem simply with TLJ but the entire franchise. Sussing this out is likely worthy of it's own thread.
http://variety.com/2018/film/news/the-last-jedi-china-box-office-1202655733/
http://variety.com/2018/film/news/the-last-jedi-china-box-office-1202655733/
sztriki
Sr Member
Gee I might be having a different conversation with you than what you have with me...
Read my last post please, I specifically said what I think of the Rose message and saving Finn event is irrelevant to this particular discussion. I offered an idea that you considered silly as a character motive whereas it would have underlined the Rose message even more ergo would have worked to the story’s advantage.
Isn’t that exactly what he did in the first act? He was given a direct order by no less than Leia and he just switched off the comlink and went against that order. Why would it make less sense for him to do it again from a character point of view?
Nitz146
Well-Known Member
It's therapy to help get over the post Star Wars depression.
cboath
Master Member
the point of it all was pretty flatly stated in the dialog.
he can't show up and take on the FO himself. As the scene showed, no matter how powerful you are, you're not going to withstand relentless blasting for 10 AT-AT's on steriods. Even before getting to crait, there were maybe 3-400 resistance members left on like 3 ships. If Luke did show up, he could maybe help them a little, but he'd get killed and it'd be 'The FO kicked his ass in a matter of minutes' and his cache is spent and he's remembered as someone who gave up and got roasted and then likely quickly forgotten.
Doing what he did, he actually DID take on the FO, withstood the blasts - which is flat out impossible - and made the FO look like the incompetent tools they now are. Plus, he solidified a legendary status that will inspire the galaxy because as far as they know, he's still alive. Only 2 people know he died as a result. Possibly a third (kylo). The galaxy at large doesn't know that and it will be a rallying cause.
Pretty simple, The Chinese give 2 $hits about this franchise always have.
Now if Stephen Chow would be given the chance to direct, your head would explode trying to keep up with the box office reciepts! :lol
Now if Stephen Chow would be given the chance to direct, your head would explode trying to keep up with the box office reciepts! :lol
Nitz146
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing that the next new lead in Rian's trilogy will be Chinese.
No I know they don't have any meaningful history with it, I just wonder how they can be more engaged. Just adding Chinese actors in R1 didn't alter the equation, there's something culturally missing.
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