Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%

  • Total voters
    578
Sure, but I'd also reference what was said earlier in the thread about latent sexism. We can't even have a discussion about Poe and Holdo without the word "emasculated" being invoked.

That's a product of bad writing. First of all Holdo was obsolent, because there were more characters in position from all of the OT that would have worked better. Leia or Ackbar, to be exact. It's the way Holdo interacts with Poe. We're told that what Poe did was wrong, but what we've seen told us a very different story. Strong females would never been a problem. But TLJ makes the males weak, the females strong and tells the audience that this is the right way. But due to very poor wrtiting the reaction is a facepalm.
 
if you actually READ the article, you will see that your assertion that it's "no boys allowed" is ludicrous.

A quote directly from the article:

"Today, the Lucasfilm story group is a diverse outlier in Hollywood: five of its members are people of color, and the team includes four women and seven men."

That's 4 women and 7 men, for those who are having trouble keeping up. That means the men outnumber the women STILL almost 2:1.

Try a different argument.

You realize that's still scary for the misogynistic crowd here, right? Let's add that they're not all exclusively white and some of these fanboys will start their cries of "SJW" and all that to protect their racist and sexist views.
 
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If force ghost can manifest their clothing, why not their bionics? Otherwise we get a bunch of naked ghost running around.. Poor Yoda..lol
 
That's a product of bad writing. First of all Holdo was obsolent,

Obsolent? That's not a word....Not trying to be a jerk about it, just literally do not understand what point you're trying to make.

It's the way Holdo interacts with Poe. We're told that what Poe did was wrong, but what we've seen told us a very different story.
What story is that? The film tells us (through Leia) that while what Poe did may have resulted in a short-term tactical victory, in the long run, he needlessly lost lives (and was not thinking like a leader should).

Strong females would never been a problem. But TLJ makes the males weak, the females strong and tells the audience that this is the right way. But due to very poor wrtiting the reaction is a facepalm.

I guess I just don't agree with your interpretation of the movie. I think TLJ solidifies that BOTH Kylo and Rey are strong force users. While one might say "oh, but Kylo is even more emo in this movie!" he offs Snoke and takes control of the First Order. Remember Yoda's lesson? Masters are what their students grow beyond....Kylo grows beyond Snoke in power, except, you know, he's unhinged (which sets up the third movie in a way ROTJ was not, it raises the stakes because Kylo is not a rational actor). Likewise, whether or not one agrees with the creative decision to have Luke force-project himself onto Crait, the fact that he does it, actually solidifies the fact that Luke has re-connected to the force and is still one of its most powerful wielders. Kylo says to Rey: "you can't be doing this, the effort would kill you." Luke one-ups Kylo on what he (Kylo) thinks are the limits of force abilities. That's why Kylo doesn't realize Luke isn't there...he can't even comprehend Luke having the ability to do that in the first place.

Also, Finn does the exact opposite of what you're claiming the film does to its male characters. He's trying to desert (again), which ostensibly would demonstrate weakness. Yet by the end of the film, he's ready to sacrifice himself to buy the Resistance time to escape. It's the ultimate act of self-sacrifice.
 
Lets cut to the chase, where are the moments that will live in peoples hearts forever? If someone can point any out I will gladly consider them.

Highlight moments of the movie for me:

-Rose revealing the Resistance insignia on her ring to the kid. It's like a kid who idolizes firefighters being given the helmet off a firefighter's head.
-Luke trolling Kylo through the Force. THIS was THE moment of the movie for me. I love how Luke goes out there to fight Kylo. Everything about this scene is great. The music, the dialogue, the visuals. I love it. I've even been considering putting "See ya around, kid." in my signature. It's such a great way for Luke to go. Not through some climactic duel, but through a great feat of the Force. Really puts Yoda's "Wars do not make one great." line into action.
 
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No, that's not my argument. I'm talking about the writing process, and how the films were not written together. ANH was produced as a standalone film.



1) I never offered myself as an expert on hooks, I was pointing out that she was referenced for her definition of feminism, which you claimed was not present in the article I was linking.
2) you completely made up a term ("core concept of self") which LITERALLY doesn't appear in her book in order to claim I was somehow ill-informed.
3) referencing your history of poor reading comprehension is not a discussion of feminism

This is a pattern you have where you misread, or misunderstand what is being said, and then launch into a series of bizarre strawmen.



Have already acknowledged this point and said it was valid.

OTOH, whether or not one line was included about Snoke doesn't make or break the movie for me.

You still said Palpatine's history would have made the ESB, not the OT, convoluted. Pretending that the middle-movie in a trilogy would not affect the trilogy. And thus demonstrating a belief that movies in a trilogy do not relate to each other.

1) I know you're not an expert on bell hooks. You sat there and were adamant about the fact that feminism was only for females and cited bell hooks. Her book actually says males can be feminist too. I pointed that out to you and it triggered you so hard you've been obsessing on it for 6+ months.

2) You were ill-informed into bell hooks until I educated you as detailed above.

3) It is when you keep bringing up the same thing over again in a desperate bid to reignite the argument. And you made the same mistake about her name. So you have to admit you have poor reading comprehension as well or you're practicing a double-standard.

First of all Holdo was obsolent

I'd also like to point out that The Brahma Bull obviously typo'd and meant "insolent" when he typed "obsolent", the O is right next to I and B is right next N. So that must be some kind of keyboard/reading association comprehension problem you have there, jlee.

The real pattern is you wanting to inappropriately derail topics. And when someone (me) suggests you just make your own topic in the off-topic area about this stuff you sputter and stall and protest. It takes seconds. Just hit the "new topic" button, give it a name, write a first post explaining the topic, and you're off.

Then stop trying to counter that point if it's valid.
 
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Highlight moments of the movie for me:

-Rose revealing the Resistance insignia on her ring to the kid. It's like a kid who idolizes firefighters being given the helmet off a firefighter's head.
-Luke trolling Kylo through the Force. THIS was THE moment of the movie for me. I love how Luke goes out there to fight Kylo. Everything about this scene is great. The music, the dialogue, the visuals. I love it. I've even been considering putting "See ya around, kid." in my signature. It's such a great way for Luke to go. Not through some climactic duel, but through a great feat of the Force. Really puts Yoda's "Wars do not make one great." line into action.

You can find Highlights in the trailer, I`m talking about timeless moments, like the ones I highlighted in my post. If those things you mentioned will live in your heart forever, well Im happy for you but for a lot of people, they broke our hearts forever.:lol

Much credit to you though for answering the question, :cheers
 
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The polarized reaction to this movie is really interesting. I saw a work acquaintance this morning who I know is a big geek, and asked what he thought of TLJ. He raved about it and said he would place it in a #1 or #2 position of all time best SW films. I had to be honest and say it didn't work for me, and he said I was letting nitpicking get in the way of enjoying the film. Sorry, but I am nitpicking because the writing is so bad it doesn't allow me to get invested in what's happening. I saw the movie twice and I honestly can't imagine having the hugely positive reaction some people are having... but to each their own.
 
I dunno, I kinda think the whole thread has been filled with people discussing their own favorite moments when people post their reviews and such.

I can point you to Bobby Moynihan gushing over the Leia's non-death scene, which many people found problematic or Kevin Smith getting misty eyed over Luke and Yoda (on youtube even, since you like that so much).

I respect your view, but are not those two examples, of the OT characters?

The only thing that "stood out" as a good scene (that had nothing to do with the OT characters) , was between Rey and Snoke trying to get in her mind. Of course you can watch that a billion times in the trailer.
 
On the subject of Snoke's backstory, I get how it's frustrating not knowing where the hell he came from. But I do think that that comes from the perspective of people who have been steeped in Star Wars lore, and for whom the line between movies and extra material (e.g., the cartoons, the books, the comics, etc.) tends to blur. Literally all we know about the Emperor and the fall of the Jedi is the roughly 1 minute of exposition Obi-Wan gives in ANH. That's it. We have zero idea what the hell is going on, where the empire came from, who ran things beforehand, how it all worked, etc.

Within the context of the story itself, it's difficult to find a lot of places to fit this stuff in in a way that seems natural. I've seen other movies tackle similar issues in pretty ham-handed ways, too. Anyone remember the David Lynch version of Dune? The theatrical version has Princess Irulan telling you for 2 minutes about the state of affairs. The "Alan Smithee" version has a 5-minute animated intro that discusses how humanity got to this point. Neither works particularly well from a storytelling perspective. Other films handle this by having a clueless character who acts as an audience surrogate and keeps getting explanations from other characters (e.g. Jack Burton in Big Trouble in Little China, almost every Doctor Who companion ever). Those work...a little better.

With Rey, the purpose of the story is a little different. The focus is on her journey, and for her journey, Snoke's backstory doesn't matter. He's the enemy. Where he came from is irrelevant. That's a stylistic choice for the story. Personally, I think it should've been handled better by JJ in the first film. Hell, the opening crawl could've done it, or Han could've taken an additional 2 minutes to address it. E.G., Han says "Snoke managed to corrupt one of Luke's students, who slaughtered anyone who wouldn't join him, and then went rogue." Rey or Finn responds "But how could anyone sway a pupil of Luke Skywalker?!" Then Han explains "After the fall of the Emperor and Vader, we thought the Dark Side was defeated forever. We were wrong. The Emperor saw to that. He had disciples we never knew about across the galaxy. Some gave up, others were killed in the years leading up to the armistice. But one, Snoke, fled to the unknown regions with the rest of the Imperial diehards. We don't know how, but he managed to take control and build up the First Order into what it is now. Without Luke...I don't know how we can beat him."

Cut the Rathtar sequence and you've got the time you need.

But in the 2nd film? There isn't really time to address it AND cover the ground you need to cover with the characters and their journeys. And yes, I think the Canto Bight sequence was actually important, even if it had a bunch of prequel-like CGI, and even if the ultimate mission was a failure.


Last point:

Canto Bight != Monte Carlo.


Canto Bight = Macau.
 
Here comes a parade of strawmen....

You still said Palpatine's history would have made the ESB, not the OT, convoluted. Pretending that the middle-movie in a trilogy would not affect the trilogy. And thus demonstrating a belief that movies in a trilogy do not relate to each other.

More accurately, what I said was that adding the Emperor's backstory to ESB was not necessary to that film's plot. I then clarified multiple times that I'm talking about the production process of writers crafting the narrative of the film.


1) I know you're not an expert on bell hooks. You sat there and were adamant about the fact that feminism was only for females and cited bell hooks. Her book actually says males can be feminist too. I pointed that out to you and it triggered you so hard you've been obsessing on it for 6+ months.

Again, that's not what was said in that thread. I said that feminists get to define feminism. Moreover, and I still can't believe I have to say this, it's completely non-sensical to believe that a male arguing in favor of feminism, somehow believes that feminism is only for females.
2) You were ill-informed into bell hooks until I educated you as detailed above.
You did no such thing, especially not by inventing a phrase hooks never used.
3) It is when you keep bringing up the same thing over again in a desperate bid to reignite the argument. And you made the same mistake about her name. So you have to admit you have poor reading comprehension as well or you're practicing a double-standard.

I can bring up any other time you've made a wildly ridiculous accusation, such as claiming I believe that mixed race people are sad because I said Star Trek used the "tragic mullato" trope. As I said, I claimed no special expertise on hooks, only pointed out that the page I linked, did in fact contain a definition of feminism where you did not. You were the one who went on to claim expertise on hooks work....before going on to misstate her pen name, which is what you attacked me for initially.

Perhaps if my misstating hooks' pen name were a part of a demonstrable pattern, whereby I continually made such errors, you might have a point about my reading comprehension skills. But I'm not the one who mistakenly conflated gender/identity and sexual identity and compacted four columns of data into two. I'm not the guy that posted a study as "proof," wherein the study's own authors flatly warned "this small sample size results in unreliable estimates." And again, I'm not the guy who thinks ESB=ANH/OT.

That's all you, bud.





Then stop trying to counter that point if it's valid.

I'm not trying to counter it. You're trying to make an argument out of everything with me.
 

For me Luke seeing the Leia ANH hologram. The result of Holdo's suicide maneuver. The boy standing with the broom like a light saber looking up at the sky. Poe slamming his X-Wing into. Skid. Rose's sister laying on her back, closing her eyes as the explosion rises up towards her. Yoda and Luke watching the tree burn. Kylo's pleading "Please" to Rey as he holds his hand out to her. Luke's "See you around, kid". Luke seeing the twin suns. Great moments.
 
I respect your view, but are not those two examples, of the OT characters?

The only thing that "stood out" as a good scene (that had nothing to do with the OT characters) , was between Rey and Snoke trying to get in her mind. Of course you can watch that a billion times in the trailer.

Well, I kinda think this is a pointless exercise. I could point out all the moments that I thought were really great, but would it really sway you? Keep going in that Kevin Smith review, he talks about Finn and Rose's moment as being really beautiful as well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think the throne room is one of the best fight sequences in SW.

It's all subjective.
 
Bryan, things are really slow around here when we arent online, we really should get our own You Tube channel and make an absolute fortune. Think of it. I could retire and you could buy your soul back from Disney.:lol
 
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These Numbers are missing the point. It's not about quantity it's about quality. How female roles are portrait compared to the male roles is what many people complain about.
There could be 10 female leads and 5 male leads, if they are written well.

Other than the fact that there have been people in here and elsewhere complaining solely about the making the roles female. Saying too many female roles, when frankly it's still about 60/40 male female.
 
Other than the fact that there have been people in here and elsewhere complaining solely about the making the roles female. Saying too many female roles, when frankly it's still about 60/40 male female.

I haven't seen a lot of people complaining solely about certain roles being female. I've seen people complaining about some females' roles, and others automatically assuming they are misogynists.
 
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