Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%

  • Total voters
    578
I'm still hazy on how that went down.

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When they were in the stolen ship heading back, Poe told Finn over the communicator that Holdo planned on escaping the ship on the cloaked transports. The shot there is the camera is showing DJ's face and we hear what Poe is saying.

When they get caught, DJ traded the info for money/freedom.

As for the how, the cloak is really a power baffler that minimized power output so that you have to be close or do a strong scan right where the transport is or visually see it. Once the FO knew what was happening they did that and found the transports.

Just to cut off any comments about "How would we know the power baffling thing", the movie uses cloaked transports and decloaking scan. Perfectly understandable words for the movie.
 
Yes, there was no center, the threads didnt mesh, IMO. Too many maybe. Finn.. just a crush on Rey. Rose.. a crush on Finn. And Luke was gone before anything could be established, other than "forget the force". Snoke? WTH? Nothing?...except gets cut in half, after reading minds? Like I said, too many threads that didnt intertwine with each other.

And the threads that were set up in TFA. I didnt find any "continuation".. to the " to be continued".

Rey was no better Jedi than in TFA, Finn, was just worried about Rey (for whatever reason, cause I still dont know) and now Poe, who started out as a calm cool collective character, turned into a slap stick, punch line, character.

Edit: That was abit harsh, because I did enjoy the movie. I dont think I would have had to watch TFA to enjoy it. But if we are talking about Trilogy or more over Sequel Trilogy, then...hmmmm

Counterpoint: https://kotaku.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-makes-the-force-awakens-much-m-1821721569

Rey spars with Luke; learns how to better control her force abilities; takes out members of the praetorian guard; moves a giant pile of rocks; and manages to swipe the ancient Jedi texts from under Luke's nose. Yoda knows, of course, hence the "nothing which she does not already possess," which makes it both figuratively and literally true.

Finn defies what Maz said about him running away from the fight and almost sacrifices himself for the resistance. His arc goes from deserter to near-martyr.

Poe seems like an odd choice to pick as slapstick. If anyone turned slap stick, it was Hux. But that at least have Hux something to do. Poe started off jokey in TFA too: "who talks first?" He turns from being a one dimensional hot shot pilot, into a character that needs to learn to grow beyond his impulsivity. Remember, JJ originally just killed off Poe in the first act and re-wrote him back in during production. Poe wasn't supposed to be one of the pillars of the story. Rian actually made him a more fully realized character with TLJ.
 
When they were in the stolen ship heading back, Poe told Finn over the communicator that Holdo planned on escaping the ship on the cloaked transports. The shot there is the camera is showing DJ's face and we hear what Poe is saying.

When they get caught, DJ traded the info for money/freedom.

As for the how, the cloak is really a power baffler that minimized power output so that you have to be close or do a strong scan right where the transport is or visually see it. Once the FO knew what was happening they did that and found the transports.
Then why did they continue with their mission?

How did the FO not visually see the ships?

Why weren't the first order pummelling them with bombing runs? Why wasn't the first order able to over take them? The falcon couldn't outrun the ISD at sub-light speed

There are so many why's that my brain hurts..

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No, not necessarily. Make money? Yes. But the financial success of TFA, R1, and now TLJ is in excess of what Disney told shareholders when they mafde the acquisition. Why? Because the product is great and resonating with audiences. I understand if you don't like these new films that fact causes some cognitive dissonance with one's worldview of the franchise but it was entirely possible to screw this up. They haven't.


because they haven't had a chance. there's been 3 films since the mouse took over... one that craps all over and ruins the beginning of ANH for fan service, a remake of ANH and then this latest fan film. Star Wars is trendy and anything with the Brand is going to make a ton of money because for the longest time it was feast or famine, when you have 10+ years between films people are going to put more value into it because of the rarity and be rabid about it when something finally shows up, and lets be honest fanboys gonna fanboy but now that it's running on clock work pumping out media at a regular pace, a lot of old fans are getting turned off with being given weak storied, Star Wars skinned Guardian of the Galaxy and the newer fans are going to get SW fatigue like a lot of people are with Superhero movies . Sure.. you might still have the hardcore fandom that's going to continue to support it but lets be honest, there's 41 years of rabid fandom here, and if Disney is going to mess it up, it's going to take them more then 3 films to do it but I will say between these 3 films and the latest game, i'd say they're well on their way.
 
Geez, getting quoted more than Shakespeare, well it least their short quotes thank god. Good to see people getting involved at least.
 
Which is funny because most people, in fact I don't know anyone who disagrees, say that ESB is the best episode. ESB was the most story driven movie of all of Star Wars. It really shaped the characters and moved the story further on. Not even Lucas seemed to understand that if we take a look back at the PT. Nowadays there are plot holes and poor narrative. It's just about an investment in moments not in an arc for a trilogy.

I have long maintained that A New Hope is the best individual film of the franchise. I feel it's the only film you can watch just by itself and not need anything else. No other film in the franchise can boast that. Empire certainly boosts the quality of the original trilogy, but by itself it's a mess.

So there you go. Someone who disagrees that Empire is the best. ;)
 
No, my shtik is to play ridiculous comment Whack-a-Mole. :)

Sorry Bryan, but when ever you comment in this thread all I see is this..........

Bryans TLJ.jpg
 
Great comment about TLJ. This discussion is on FIRE now guys & gals!

Let's keep it going.

Zero sense of humour, nice. I would have waited for Bryan`s reaction myself before I made a comment but there you go.

Any updates on my reaction to YOUR last quote about our "crossed" comments or you just brushing that off to concentrate on my comments to other people? Thats twice now since.

ADDITION;

Actualy, dont bother now as Inquisitor Peregrinus seems to have done that for you just above. As you seem to follow my posts very closely but avoid coherent and reasonable ones directed at you and jump at the chance to comment on ones that try and paint me in a bad light, I smell either an agenda or a very sour puss, either way something just smells "off".
 
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Then why did they continue with their mission?

How did the FO not visually see the ships?

Why weren't the first order pummelling them with bombing runs? Why wasn't the first order able to over take them? The falcon couldn't outrun the ISD at sub-light speed

There are so many why's that my brain hurts..

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The people on the cruiser had no idea DJ knew the plan. Only DJ, Rose and Poe are on the ship so why WOULDN'T they stick to it?

My answer for all the other stuff is IMO that the FO were glorifying the end of the Resistance. Hux is in charge and is not the best military commander. He basically is thinking about how miserable the Resistance probably is waiting to die. He makes a decision that they will just destroy the ships as they run out of fuel. Could they have just sent over a 1000 tie fighters and eventually blow the ship up sooner? Probably but you see how much Hux HATED the resistance every time he spoke about them. I can definitely see him picking the plan that makes the crews on the ship dread the time they had left.

I don't think they have people using binoculars on the command decks they most likely rely on their tech stuff just like we do now. Like what good is a binocular when the ship is 60 miles wide! (yeah I know Snoke had something like it in his space but I doubt he used it to stare at ships)

If you nitpick I'm sure you will find issues with the film BUT ANH and other Star Wars have just as many or even more things in the same manner. Why is it game breaking here and now for TLJ? Most likely because people have filled those holes with head canon and answers from other media, just like a lot of people are trying to do in this thread for TLJ because that is something that is fun to do.

If people take the time to THINK about these questions instead of just throwing up their hands we could all participate in coming up with cool reasons for things just like what has happened in the past. I feel that is the magic that a lot of people have lost in regards to Star Wars movies lately.
 
Dispensable is not the word I would use...fungible maybe.

I can promise you Disney is not thinking ANY OT Star Wars fans are dispensible or fungible. From a business perspective that doesn't make sense. They need to keep the core OT fans while also bringing in new fans to increase the profit margin. Just replacing the OT fans with new fans would not grow any profit.
 
I can promise you Disney is not thinking ANY OT Star Wars fans are dispensible or fungible. From a business perspective that doesn't make sense. They need to keep the core OT fans while also bringing in new fans to increase the profit margin. Just replacing the OT fans with new fans would not grow any profit.

I mean sure, Disney doesn't want to lose anybody. But the "glass half full" side of the coin to any discontent OT fans leaving the flock (so to speak) is that they're building a new market.

As far as replacing OT fans....It's really just a numbers game. Putting my belief that some of the outrage will eventually blow over aside, the cohort of folks who grew up as OT fans is only so big. We're talking anybody who was alive in 1977 up until about 1996/97/98. I predate TPM because even if you were born there years before TPM, even if you saw SW at age 3, you didn't really process it. So for all intents and purposes, everyone born after that date never knew a world without the prequels. And for Disney's purposes, the market also now includes China. Now obviously Star Wars existed overseas before Disney, but the global market is vastly different from 1977, and the Chinese market is one that Disney is actively building (see: the two newest theme parks currently hosting Disney's cutting edge ride tech).

Oh, the numbers though....1.4 bil in China, 326 mil in America. The population of Chinese males age 25-54 is 341mil. Just think about those and ponder how many people are actually soooo outraged.

How many of those 326mil people do you suppose are hardcore OT fans walking out of Disney's vision? More than the 176 mil Chinese people age 15-24 that the new movie will be marketed to?

Note at this point to my non-American friends, I apologize that the above seems to discount OT fans outside the US by virtue of my use of U.S. statistics. Please forgive that my shorthand analysis only focused on U.S./China, the whole thing is to only make a point about proportionality. Likewise, obviously not everyone in China age 15-24 has the opportunity to see a foreign film. My point is the potential market is huge. The segment of OT fans who dislike it enough to swear off SW altogether is not.

How many you got over there in that camp? Thousands of people?
 
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I mean sure, Disney doesn't want to lose anybody. But the "glass half full" side of the coin to any discontent OT fans leaving the flock (so to speak) is that they're building a new market.

As far as replacing OT fans....It's really just a numbers game. Putting my belief that some of the outrage will eventually blow over aside, the cohort of folks who grew up as OT fans is only so big. We're talking anybody who was alive in 1977 up until about 1996/97/98. I predate TPM because even if you were born there years before TPM, even if you saw SW at age 3, you didn't really process it. So for all intents and purposes, everyone born after that date never knew a world without the prequels. And for Disney's purposes, the market also now includes China. Now obviously Star Wars existed overseas before Disney, but the global market is vastly different from 1977, and the Chinese market is one that Disney is actively building (see: the two newest theme parks currently hosting Disney's cutting edge ride tech).

Oh, the numbers though....1.4 bil in China, 326 mil in America. The population of Chinese males age 25-54 is 341mil. Just think about those and ponder how many people are actually soooo outraged.

How many of those 326mil people do you suppose are hardcore OT fans walking out of Disney's vision? More than the 176 mil Chinese people age 15-24 that the new movie will be marketed to?

Note at this point to my non-American friends, I apologize that the above seems to discount OT fans outside the US by virtue of my use of U.S. statistics. Please forgive that my shorthand analysis only focused on U.S./China, the whole thing is to only make a point about proportionality. Likewise, obviously not everyone in China age 15-24 has the opportunity to see a foreign film. My point is the potential market is huge. The segment of OT fans who dislike it enough to swear off SW altogether is not.

How many you got over there in that camp? Thousands of people?

I agree with your post and I like the point being made. I would also add that Lucasfilm/Disney isn't focused on the last 40 years, they are working forward to the next 40.
 
I mean sure, Disney doesn't want to lose anybody. But the "glass half full" side of the coin to any discontent OT fans leaving the flock (so to speak) is that they're building a new market.

As far as replacing OT fans....It's really just a numbers game. Putting my belief that some of the outrage will eventually blow over aside, the cohort of folks who grew up as OT fans is only so big. We're talking anybody who was alive in 1977 up until about 1996/97/98. I predate TPM because even if you were born there years before TPM, even if you saw SW at age 3, you didn't really process it. So for all intents and purposes, everyone born after that date never knew a world without the prequels. And for Disney's purposes, the market also now includes China. Now obviously Star Wars existed overseas before Disney, but the global market is vastly different from 1977, and the Chinese market is one that Disney is actively building (see: the two newest theme parks currently hosting Disney's cutting edge ride tech).

Oh, the numbers though....1.4 bil in China, 326 mil in America. The population of Chinese males age 25-54 is 341mil. Just think about those and ponder how many people are actually soooo outraged.

How many of those 326mil people do you suppose are hardcore OT fans walking out of Disney's vision? More than the 176 mil Chinese people age 15-24 that the new movie will be marketed to?

Note at this point to my non-American friends, I apologize that the above seems to discount OT fans outside the US by virtue of my use of U.S. statistics. Please forgive that my shorthand analysis only focused on U.S./China, the whole thing is to only make a point about proportionality. Likewise, obviously not everyone in China age 15-24 has the opportunity to see a foreign film. My point is the potential market is huge. The segment of OT fans who dislike it enough to swear off SW altogether is not.

How many you got over there in that camp? Thousands of people?

Yes, and the OT characters have an even shorter shelf life. Han being gone was inevitable as Harrison was always one and done. Carrie’s passing was tragic and she’s no longer part of the equation. Mark I strongly believe will be back in IX in some capacity but this is no longer his story. Two films have gone a long way to establish a new, culturally and racially diverse cast who are young and appealing to a new international audience. It’s not being dismissive of the OT fans, it’s simply the need to move forward takes precedent. And having lived the OT and PT era’s this “controversy” over TLJ and TFA pails in comparison to who many responded to the PT. It’s amusing to hear all this “I miss George” stuff when he was so vilified. Did the same fans support the Clone Wars, which George produced? Fans who haven’t liked a Star Wars product since 1983 have very limited value.
 
I'm an open-minded but hardcore OT fan... I binned Disney Star Wars after the Force Awakens and The Last Jedi has more than reinforced that decision... Disney have already lost fans of the OT... it's too late to fix.
 
Zero sense of humour, nice. I would have waited for Bryan`s reaction myself before I made a comment but there you go.

Any updates on my reaction to YOUR last quote about our "crossed" comments or you just brushing that off to concentrate on my comments to other people? Thats twice now since.

ADDITION;

Actualy, dont bother now as @inquisitor Peregrinus seems to have done that for you just above. As you seem to follow my posts very closely but avoid coherent and reasonable ones directed at you and jump at the chance to comment on ones that try and paint me in a bad light, I smell either an agenda or a very sour puss, either way something just smells "off".



You're right. Bad form on my part.

Being sincere here, but I haven't felt the need to respond to that particular comment to me, cause as you said, it had been addressed, & for me to jump in & say that you were wrong as well would've looked like I was ganging up on you.

I have specifically addressed things that you've brought up, but you've come back with inaccurate 'facts', & total Strawman Fallacies, so you didn't seem like someone I could have a 'discussion' with. I actually went to your profile to see some of your other 'discussions', because I thought maybe your feelings about this particular film was the reason we seemed to butt heads, & to me, they seemed to follow the same trend.

Let me say here,I apologise for seeming to seek you out, from here on out, I'll address your comments to me directly, only.

Sorry everyone.
 
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Just had a sit down with one of my coworkers, He and his boys went see it. His 10 yr old was ready to leave half way through, his 15 yr old said it was just ok. And as for him? Well, you guessed it, I had to explain almost the whole movie. He is a middle aged 40 ish year old, he knows of Star Wars, never really got into it, until all the hype.

He in my eyes is the typical, parent, with the typical family life. Doesnt mind sitting and watching a good movie, every now and then, works hard, not rich enough to attend theater showings often. He explained to me it would have been worth it, if at least the kids got a kick out it. He also asked, why was it so long? Too long of a movie for young kids.

He does not collect SW, and will not buy it. Will just wait for VOD or HBO Go.

Did Disney get his money at the theater? Absolutely! However, I cant see Disney making much money "after the sale" with this family. But maybe Im wrong and he is not the typical family, they are focused on.

He would fall in the category "It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video."
 
Then why did they continue with their mission?

Well, though we are meant to know that DJ overheard them, Finn and Rose were not aware of it... or at least not aware that DJ had ill intent with that info.

How did the FO not visually see the ships?

Compared to the Capital Ship(s) that they were following, the transports were VERY small. I reckon not easily seen with the naked eye. AND, they were cloaked to defeat scanning detection.

TWhy weren't the first order pummelling them with bombing runs?

They DID... once they were told of their existence, scanned and found them.

Why wasn't the first order able to over take them? The falcon couldn't outrun the ISD at sub-light speed

According to the dialog, the Raddus was smaller and lighter... so could outrun the SD. Though this doesn't make logical scientific sense, neither does "hyperspace" or Laser Cannons"
 
I mean sure, Disney doesn't want to lose anybody. But the "glass half full" side of the coin to any discontent OT fans leaving the flock (so to speak) is that they're building a new market.

As far as replacing OT fans....It's really just a numbers game. Putting my belief that some of the outrage will eventually blow over aside, the cohort of folks who grew up as OT fans is only so big. We're talking anybody who was alive in 1977 up until about 1996/97/98. I predate TPM because even if you were born there years before TPM, even if you saw SW at age 3, you didn't really process it. So for all intents and purposes, everyone born after that date never knew a world without the prequels. And for Disney's purposes, the market also now includes China. Now obviously Star Wars existed overseas before Disney, but the global market is vastly different from 1977, and the Chinese market is one that Disney is actively building (see: the two newest theme parks currently hosting Disney's cutting edge ride tech).

Oh, the numbers though....1.4 bil in China, 326 mil in America. The population of Chinese males age 25-54 is 341mil. Just think about those and ponder how many people are actually soooo outraged.

How many of those 326mil people do you suppose are hardcore OT fans walking out of Disney's vision? More than the 176 mil Chinese people age 15-24 that the new movie will be marketed to?

Note at this point to my non-American friends, I apologize that the above seems to discount OT fans outside the US by virtue of my use of U.S. statistics. Please forgive that my shorthand analysis only focused on U.S./China, the whole thing is to only make a point about proportionality. Likewise, obviously not everyone in China age 15-24 has the opportunity to see a foreign film. My point is the potential market is huge. The segment of OT fans who dislike it enough to swear off SW altogether is not.

How many you got over there in that camp? Thousands of people?


You make an excellent point about the huge potential of the Chinese audience. I think however Disney knows how important it is to keep their core audience here in the U.S. and English speaking countries happy. Here in the U.S. its the top movie franchise and it makes huge amounts of money, where over seas in places like China the star wars franchise hasn't done as well. Until Star Wars in china starts out performing the the gross profit in the U.S. then Disney needs to keep those fans happy.
And I'm sure there working on it. Just hope we don't start getting transformer type SW movies.
 
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