Upside-down Kobold?

Hey guys, hope this helps.
I can confirm that the ranch saber is indeed one of the screen-used dagobah sabers.
Can't say for certain whether or not there was more than one, but I was able to screen match the ranch one.
You can see that the circuit board has been switched around, the kobold clip has been re-attached upside down (must have broke off at some point).
Also the 1/2 in tape has been replaced by the wider textured tape post filming. Also currently is missing one of it's chrome/red buttons.
http://ginodesign.com/starwarslifesized/misc/esb_screenmatch.png
.

Is the right side a production still? That's the first time I've spotted the upper grip screws potentially onscreen if so.

Also, other than the shape of that central grip, what's the evidence these two are the same Graflex?
 
Yep production still.
In hi-res it's definitive that it's at the very least the same bottom shell of the graflex (the part with the grips on it).
It's possible that the clamp and upper part of the graflex has been swapped out over time, but I think it's less likely.
I haven't taken the time to see if I can match any scratches or blemishes on the clamp or upper part to the ranch saber to how it looks today.
 
Yep production still.
In hi-res it's definitive that it's at the very least the same bottom shell of the graflex (the part with the grips on it).
It's possible that the clamp and upper part of the graflex has been swapped out over time, but I think it's less likely.
I haven't taken the time to see if I can match any scratches or blemishes on the clamp or upper part to the ranch saber to how it looks today.

This is awesome Gino, thanks for chiming in and sharing!

I have to ask though, am I the only one who still sees a flipped clip in this screenshot? Especially with your side by side comparison, it looks way more like the flipped version than the standard config to me.

Is it really that unreasonable to think it was in its standard config in your very definitive shot, perhaps suffered an injury and after an on-set repair ended up flipped for a few shots and stayed as we see it today? That seems more plausible to me than it being switched or messed with post production.

But Gino, I know you’ve seen a lot, so if you tell me I’m positively 100% wrong, I’ll be very content to take your word. I’m just still struggling with what I see.

59365bd5cd748e0410dcf33cfdc1f6d5.jpg



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Hey guys, hope this helps.
I can confirm that the ranch saber is indeed one of the screen-used dagobah sabers.
Can't say for certain whether or not there was more than one, but I was able to screen match the ranch one.
You can see that the circuit board has been switched around, the kobold clip has been re-attached upside down (must have broke off at some point).
The 1/2 in tape has been replaced by the wider textured tape post filming.
The screw in the clamp lever looks to be added post filming.
Also currently is missing one of it's chrome/red buttons.
At first I thought the dark spot on the clamp was a screw, but now I think it is just a blemish/piece of crud that has been cleaned off.

http://ginodesign.com/starwarslifesized/misc/esb_screenmatch.png



.

Thanks for this. If my ESB Hero grips ever start to slip, and I have to add the extras I'll know its production accurate :D

Beautiful shot of the saber. I remember you being awesome when I made a Skywalker Ranch saber. theres a screw in the lever, but the lever isn't even on a hinge I learned. There's a brass screw through to the other sidebar as well
 
Thanks for this. If my ESB Hero grips ever start to slip, and I have to add the extras I'll know its production accurate [emoji3]

Beautiful shot of the saber. I remember you being awesome when I made a Skywalker Ranch saber. theres a screw in the lever, but the lever isn't even on a hinge I learned. There's a brass screw through to the other sidebar as well

So the lever screw is the only thing holding it in place to the clamp?

Edit - nevermind my question. Misunderstood what you meant - think I got it now.


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So the lever screw is the only thing holding it in place to the clamp?

Edit - nevermind my question. Misunderstood what you meant - think I got it now.


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actually you're correct. There's a brass machine screw and the original square washer keeping the clamp tight. Then the lever with an empty hinge is attached via that countersunk brass slotted screw on it's face. The sidebar is not very thick. I used a square nut inside the side-bar to keep it there, I'm thinking they did the same thing.
 
actually you're correct. There's a brass machine screw and the original square washer keeping the clamp tight. Then the lever with an empty hinge is attached via that countersunk brass slotted screw on it's face. The sidebar is not very thick. I used a square nut inside the side-bar to keep it there, I'm thinking they did the same thing.

Awesome thanks for the extra info Tom.


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Awesome thanks for the extra info Tom.


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Course! In order to tighten the lever and the clamp separately, I had to turn the lever away. to get it back, I had to push it over the square washer and it turned just like the one on the real SRS saber! (diamond as opposed to square oriented) neat stuff
 
I missed all this good stuff! I’ll be back later tonight!

Now I need to find those small black screws!!!!


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I’m surprised there’s not more commenting about Gino’s pic showing small screws on the top of my he grips in a production still. We all thought those were added later!

This thread is making us rethink everything!


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Silver screws and well known Kobold clip not upside-down :







Same picture as GINO posted but now complete ... with Kobold as known and blackened screws:



Being a D-ring kinda guy I did notice that the additional D-ring on Luke's ESB belt switches places from before and behind the lightsaberhanger clip :wacko



So I think there were definately more belthangers and stuntsabers available on set ... especially since multiple stages were in use for different scenes and wardrobe would have access to more belts and thus belthangers.

Chaïm
 
Silver screws and well known Kobold clip not upside-down :

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/...8770903_1751232498_n_zpsou7iq36q.jpg~original

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/...3092011_2023001713_n_zpswld8lwqr.png~original

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz258/Sym-Cha/ESB101-Luke X-wing_zps5g440ekb.jpg~original

Same picture as GINO posted but now complete ... with Kobold as known and blackened screws:

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/...33052010_790223168_n_zpsnttnto8f.png~original

Being a D-ring kinda guy I did notice that the additional D-ring on Luke's ESB belt switches places from before and behind the lightsaberhanger clip :wacko

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz258/Sym-Cha/TrioESB_zps7eaad61b.jpg~original

So I think there were definately more belthangers and stuntsabers available on set ... especially since multiple stages were in use for different scenes and wardrobe would have access to more belts and thus belthangers.

Chaïm

I concur wholeheartedly that Gino’s pic is 100% definitive for that shot and that’s the way it’s seen almost every where else. That’s definitely not even a question in my mind, at all.

But my screenshot is different than Gino’s photo, so it doesn’t preclude the possibility something changed between when those photos were taken, that’s all. And I’m certainly not claiming my screenshot is definitely right or proof. I’m simply just turning over rocks.

I just think this stuff is worth exploring/questioning because before this thread started, I think many people would have said (and did say) that the ranch saber was basically a phony concoction with many incorrect details and yet here we are now with pretty great evidence (thanks to such great contributions!) which shows the base of the saber is legit, the extra grip screws are legit - that’s 2 out of 3 things (the remaining one being the flipped clip) which were previously said to have been wrong or in question are now pretty clearly right.

So, it’s 100% possible the flipped clip is still the Post production phony anomaly, but since 2 out of 3 now appear to be accurate, Doesn’t logic dictate that the remaining item in question (the flipped clip) may indeed be accurate as well and we should keep looking for clues?



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Having destroyed a Graflex bottom trying to take rivets out, my only hang up in this is that I don't see the Kobold falling off, and there's no logical reason for them to intentionally flip it.

That said, I feel pretty confident that the Ranch saber and Dagobah saber are the same. TeeCrooz made a good point to me recently, that at least one of the belt hanger heroes was modified as production moved on. We all know the tales of the grips coming off in the cold-- but I think the different color screws, the damage to the grips that we track, and the small top grip screws are all evidence of the fact their props were getting the crap beat out of them.

Who has a the call sheets handy? What was the order of production for the three key locations the Graflex is?
 
Someone please double check me but I’m pretty sure Hoth, Bespin, Dagobah in that order. specifics within that I’m not sure.
 
ok gang i got some free time, loving all the collected info! so we now have a picture of the small black screws!! is it safe to say only the dagobah saber had the small screws? the r2 bump scene, can we confirm in that pic there isn't small black screws? i know the r2 bump scene was heavily debated, but now with this hi-def pic gino posted (thanks gino!!) it really makes me think differently now

another thing i was thinking of last night, since the saber that is pulled out of the snow in the wampa cave has the same black screw/mark on the clamp as the dagobah saber. maybe with the screw removed that is the black hole we are seeing?!

as for 1 of props, didnt solo have his 2 belts in ESB, the ANH belt and a new ESB belt? can we confirm luke had multiple belts as well? or was luke only using his celebration belt from ANH through out ESB.

im not trying to "defend" my 1 belt hanger theory through out the film anymore, because i think we now have at least 2 we know of. and i understand the logic behind NOT having only 1 hero BUT multiple films, including star wars has only had 1 hero. the V2 is a classic example, han's live fire in ANH, films even today still only rock 1 hero. heck look at the first transformers, they used chevys concept Camaro through out that whole first film, and there was only 1 in the world, another movie where there was only 1 car in the world was "hit and run" and that sucker did all the stunts in the film as well.

even though i personally think its idiotic to only have 1 hero, it is done very commonly and still today. (this quickly came to mind) but Kick-ass2 all the super heros aside from hit girl, and kickass had only 1 suit.

i dont find it hard to believe by this time in production we only had 1 hero, BUT with new evidence i think its safe to say there is at least 1 more. with all these different stunt variants i could see them grabbing another graflex and doing what they had to to make it work. the stunt in dagobah had both red buttons

just out of curiosity, anyone have the picture of behind the scenes with luke hanging and the saber in the snow, was that a stunt with the blade in the snow, and a guy moving the saber by giggling the blade?

another question i had was besides the promo photos we have with the back ground color drops, any idea when exactly those were taken? basically what im saying is, do we know if they did anything like they did with ANH and took promo photos after (harrisons fords hair cut change) or were all these promos taken during filming?

love all the team work going into this :thumbsup

- - - Updated - - -

is my mind playing tricks on me, or do i see small black screws in the grip far right?

TrioESB_zps7eaad61b.jpg~original
 
Finse in Norway was the very first day of shooting principal photography then the CREW went to EMI Studios on Elstree and finally editing and post-production took place in Marin County ... here's a great read : Once upon a Galaxy : A Journal of The Making of STAR WARS The Empire Strikes Back by Alan Arnold a DEL REY Book published by Ballantine Books in 1980 (paperback) ISBN 0-345-29075-5



I for one never called the Skywalker Ranch Saber a phony concoction with many incorrect details because I know at the time Lucas and CREW didn't or couldn't afford to care to much about all those intricate details we ponder over, because they were on a tight schedule and with all the mishaps, the worst weather in years in Norway and a stage burned down, all they wanted to get the movie produced and released within the given timeframe and more important budget provided mostly by Lucas himself.

So I can only encourage your search for the truth and applaud any clues put to the table ... as said it's quite possible the upside-down clip was always there on one of the lightsabers used in production then again we do know that once public STAR WARS exhibitions were added to the mix . . . so props could have been cleaned up and prepared for photography and exhibition ... the SRS saber appears in the Magic of Myth Exhibition and accompanying Catalogue/Book :



Chaïm
 
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