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  1. SethS's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 1:57 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #51

    I’m surprised there’s not more commenting about Gino’s pic showing small screws on the top of my he grips in a production still. We all thought those were added later!
  2. Drew Baker's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 2:00 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #52

    SethS said: View Post
    I’m surprised there’s not more commenting about Gino’s pic showing small screws on the top of my he grips in a production still. We all thought those were added later!
    I think that might be due to shock, myself.
  3. Member Since
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 2:04 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #53

    SethS said: View Post
    Im surprised theres not more commenting about Ginos pic showing small screws on the top of my he grips in a production still. We all thought those were added later!
    This thread is making us rethink everything!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  4. Sym-Cha's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 2:28 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #54

    Silver screws and well known Kobold clip not upside-down :







    Same picture as GINO posted but now complete ... with Kobold as known and blackened screws:



    Being a D-ring kinda guy I did notice that the additional D-ring on Luke's ESB belt switches places from before and behind the lightsaberhanger clip



    So I think there were definately more belthangers and stuntsabers available on set ... especially since multiple stages were in use for different scenes and wardrobe would have access to more belts and thus belthangers.

    Cham
  5. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 3:06 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #55

    Sym-Cha said: View Post
    Silver screws and well known Kobold clip not upside-down :

    http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/z...q.jpg~original

    http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/z...r.png~original

    http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/z...b.jpg~original

    Same picture as GINO posted but now complete ... with Kobold as known and blackened screws:

    http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/z...f.png~original

    Being a D-ring kinda guy I did notice that the additional D-ring on Luke's ESB belt switches places from before and behind the lightsaberhanger clip

    http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/z...b.jpg~original

    So I think there were definately more belthangers and stuntsabers available on set ... especially since multiple stages were in use for different scenes and wardrobe would have access to more belts and thus belthangers.

    Cham
    I concur wholeheartedly that Gino’s pic is 100% definitive for that shot and that’s the way it’s seen almost every where else. That’s definitely not even a question in my mind, at all.

    But my screenshot is different than Gino’s photo, so it doesn’t preclude the possibility something changed between when those photos were taken, that’s all. And I’m certainly not claiming my screenshot is definitely right or proof. I’m simply just turning over rocks.

    I just think this stuff is worth exploring/questioning because before this thread started, I think many people would have said (and did say) that the ranch saber was basically a phony concoction with many incorrect details and yet here we are now with pretty great evidence (thanks to such great contributions!) which shows the base of the saber is legit, the extra grip screws are legit - that’s 2 out of 3 things (the remaining one being the flipped clip) which were previously said to have been wrong or in question are now pretty clearly right.

    So, it’s 100% possible the flipped clip is still the Post production phony anomaly, but since 2 out of 3 now appear to be accurate, Doesn’t logic dictate that the remaining item in question (the flipped clip) may indeed be accurate as well and we should keep looking for clues?



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    Last edited by ms80444; 1 Week Ago at 4:28 PM.
  6. SethS's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 3:21 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #56

    Having destroyed a Graflex bottom trying to take rivets out, my only hang up in this is that I don't see the Kobold falling off, and there's no logical reason for them to intentionally flip it.

    That said, I feel pretty confident that the Ranch saber and Dagobah saber are the same. TeeCrooz made a good point to me recently, that at least one of the belt hanger heroes was modified as production moved on. We all know the tales of the grips coming off in the cold-- but I think the different color screws, the damage to the grips that we track, and the small top grip screws are all evidence of the fact their props were getting the crap beat out of them.

    Who has a the call sheets handy? What was the order of production for the three key locations the Graflex is?
  7. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 3:37 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #57

    Someone please double check me but I’m pretty sure Hoth, Bespin, Dagobah in that order. specifics within that I’m not sure.
  8. halliwax's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 6:48 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #58

    ok gang i got some free time, loving all the collected info! so we now have a picture of the small black screws!! is it safe to say only the dagobah saber had the small screws? the r2 bump scene, can we confirm in that pic there isn't small black screws? i know the r2 bump scene was heavily debated, but now with this hi-def pic gino posted (thanks gino!!) it really makes me think differently now

    another thing i was thinking of last night, since the saber that is pulled out of the snow in the wampa cave has the same black screw/mark on the clamp as the dagobah saber. maybe with the screw removed that is the black hole we are seeing?!

    as for 1 of props, didnt solo have his 2 belts in ESB, the ANH belt and a new ESB belt? can we confirm luke had multiple belts as well? or was luke only using his celebration belt from ANH through out ESB.

    im not trying to "defend" my 1 belt hanger theory through out the film anymore, because i think we now have at least 2 we know of. and i understand the logic behind NOT having only 1 hero BUT multiple films, including star wars has only had 1 hero. the V2 is a classic example, han's live fire in ANH, films even today still only rock 1 hero. heck look at the first transformers, they used chevys concept Camaro through out that whole first film, and there was only 1 in the world, another movie where there was only 1 car in the world was "hit and run" and that sucker did all the stunts in the film as well.

    even though i personally think its idiotic to only have 1 hero, it is done very commonly and still today. (this quickly came to mind) but Kick-ass2 all the super heros aside from hit girl, and kickass had only 1 suit.

    i dont find it hard to believe by this time in production we only had 1 hero, BUT with new evidence i think its safe to say there is at least 1 more. with all these different stunt variants i could see them grabbing another graflex and doing what they had to to make it work. the stunt in dagobah had both red buttons

    just out of curiosity, anyone have the picture of behind the scenes with luke hanging and the saber in the snow, was that a stunt with the blade in the snow, and a guy moving the saber by giggling the blade?

    another question i had was besides the promo photos we have with the back ground color drops, any idea when exactly those were taken? basically what im saying is, do we know if they did anything like they did with ANH and took promo photos after (harrisons fords hair cut change) or were all these promos taken during filming?

    love all the team work going into this

    - - - Updated - - -

    is my mind playing tricks on me, or do i see small black screws in the grip far right?

  9. Sym-Cha's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 7:22 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #59

    Finse in Norway was the very first day of shooting principal photography then the CREW went to EMI Studios on Elstree and finally editing and post-production took place in Marin County ... here's a great read : Once upon a Galaxy : A Journal of The Making of STAR WARS The Empire Strikes Back by Alan Arnold a DEL REY Book published by Ballantine Books in 1980 (paperback) ISBN 0-345-29075-5



    I for one never called the Skywalker Ranch Saber a phony concoction with many incorrect details because I know at the time Lucas and CREW didn't or couldn't afford to care to much about all those intricate details we ponder over, because they were on a tight schedule and with all the mishaps, the worst weather in years in Norway and a stage burned down, all they wanted to get the movie produced and released within the given timeframe and more important budget provided mostly by Lucas himself.

    So I can only encourage your search for the truth and applaud any clues put to the table ... as said it's quite possible the upside-down clip was always there on one of the lightsabers used in production then again we do know that once public STAR WARS exhibitions were added to the mix . . . so props could have been cleaned up and prepared for photography and exhibition ... the SRS saber appears in the Magic of Myth Exhibition and accompanying Catalogue/Book :



    Cham
    Last edited by Sym-Cha; 1 Week Ago at 7:38 PM.
  10. Sym-Cha's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 7:40 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #60

    halliwax said: View Post
    just out of curiosity, anyone have the picture of behind the scenes with luke hanging and the saber in the snow, was that a stunt with the blade in the snow, and a guy moving the saber by giggling the blade?




    Cham
  11. halliwax's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 7:42 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #61

    this is why i always say "you' da man!!"

    also with some quick digging, it looks like luke wears 2 different belts through out the film. hoth and bespin belt the same, dagobah a different belt. still looking though
  12. Sym-Cha's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 7:52 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #62

    Did you @halliwax or anyone notice the additional 2 saberclips beneath the collar of Luke's flightsuit?



    Cham
  13. halliwax's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 8:05 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #63

    DAMN! chaim!!! ive never noticed that before!!!!
  14. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 8:55 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #64

    I'm wondering if they just taped a blade to the belt hanger for this. it got way too much up close screen time for a fighting stunt to be used
  15. RPF Premium Member scottjua's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 9:29 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #65

    halliwax said: View Post
    ok gang i got some free time, loving all the collected info! so we now have a picture of the small black screws!! is it safe to say only the dagobah saber had the small screws? the r2 bump scene, can we confirm in that pic there isn't small black screws? i know the r2 bump scene was heavily debated, but now with this hi-def pic gino posted (thanks gino!!) it really makes me think differently now

    another thing i was thinking of last night, since the saber that is pulled out of the snow in the wampa cave has the same black screw/mark on the clamp as the dagobah saber. maybe with the screw removed that is the black hole we are seeing?!

    as for 1 of props, didnt solo have his 2 belts in ESB, the ANH belt and a new ESB belt? can we confirm luke had multiple belts as well? or was luke only using his celebration belt from ANH through out ESB.

    im not trying to "defend" my 1 belt hanger theory through out the film anymore, because i think we now have at least 2 we know of. and i understand the logic behind NOT having only 1 hero BUT multiple films, including star wars has only had 1 hero. the V2 is a classic example, han's live fire in ANH, films even today still only rock 1 hero. heck look at the first transformers, they used chevys concept Camaro through out that whole first film, and there was only 1 in the world, another movie where there was only 1 car in the world was "hit and run" and that sucker did all the stunts in the film as well.

    even though i personally think its idiotic to only have 1 hero, it is done very commonly and still today. (this quickly came to mind) but Kick-ass2 all the super heros aside from hit girl, and kickass had only 1 suit.

    i dont find it hard to believe by this time in production we only had 1 hero, BUT with new evidence i think its safe to say there is at least 1 more. with all these different stunt variants i could see them grabbing another graflex and doing what they had to to make it work. the stunt in dagobah had both red buttons

    just out of curiosity, anyone have the picture of behind the scenes with luke hanging and the saber in the snow, was that a stunt with the blade in the snow, and a guy moving the saber by giggling the blade?

    another question i had was besides the promo photos we have with the back ground color drops, any idea when exactly those were taken? basically what im saying is, do we know if they did anything like they did with ANH and took promo photos after (harrisons fords hair cut change) or were all these promos taken during filming?

    love all the team work going into this

    - - - Updated - - -

    is my mind playing tricks on me, or do i see small black screws in the grip far right?

    http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/z...b.jpg~original
    yes it's fooling you with that one shiny reflection. I can confirm this saber has NO smaller secondary screws.

    Also, Gino has the measure of it. The ranch bottom can is a match for the Dagobah belt hanger, but it's a patent graflex. It's NOT the Wampa cave saber, or the other belt hanger that's more commonly seen throughout the film.

    The ranch saber seems to be the dagobah bottom can, plus a new clamp and new top. The scratches and blemishes don't match at all for those parts. At some point, as Gino points out, the Kobold was re-attached upside down... who knows why or when for sure, but so far I can't see any evidence that it was upside down for filming. Possibly it was re-dressed when getting ready for ROTJ as one of them showed up on Day 1 filming.

    One thing to watch for throughout production is the D ring itself on each different saber. Completely different shapes.
  16. halliwax's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 9:33 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #66

    scottjua said: View Post
    yes it's fooling you with that one shiny reflection. I can confirm this saber has NO smaller secondary screws.

    Also, Gino has the measure of it. The ranch bottom can is a match for the Dagobah belt hanger, but it's a patent graflex. It's NOT the Wampa cave saber, or the other belt hanger that's more commonly seen throughout the film.

    The ranch saber seems to be the dagobah bottom can, plus a new clamp and new top. The scratches and blemishes don't match at all for those parts. At some point, as Gino points out, the Kobold was re-attached upside down... who knows why or when for sure, but so far I can't see any evidence that it was upside down for filming. Possibly it was re-dressed when getting ready for ROTJ as one of them showed up on Day 1 filming.

    One thing to watch for throughout production is the D ring itself on each different saber. Completely different shapes
    .
    i have noticed this, and though it was only because of re attaching to the belt clip and it changing shape, the wampa cave saber has the most awkward d ring bends ive ever seen!

    so you think there is at least 3 belt hangers scott?

    thank you for chiming
  17. RPF Premium Member scottjua's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 9:39 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #67

    thd9791 said: View Post
    I'm wondering if they just taped a blade to the belt hanger for this. it got way too much up close screen time for a fighting stunt to be used
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2014-09-24 at 12.39.36 AM.jpg 
Views:	75 
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ID:	777459

    It was one of the bladed stunts with a short blade.
  18. halliwax's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 9:46 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #68

    still dying to know what they used for a blade...
  19. SethS's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 11:42 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #69

    scottjua said: View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2014-09-24 at 12.39.36 AM.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	869.6 KB 
ID:	777459

    It was one of the bladed stunts with a short blade.
    We say "stunt" as a generic term, but really, there's three different types-- the ones used for duels, the ones with shorter blades like this one and the Yuma when it's swung around other performers, and ones used for actor falls (Luke jumping against the side of the barge), throwing, etc.
  20. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 1, 2017, 11:45 PM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #70

    scottjua said: View Post
    yes it's fooling you with that one shiny reflection. I can confirm this saber has NO smaller secondary screws.

    Also, Gino has the measure of it. The ranch bottom can is a match for the Dagobah belt hanger, but it's a patent graflex. It's NOT the Wampa cave saber, or the other belt hanger that's more commonly seen throughout the film.

    The ranch saber seems to be the dagobah bottom can, plus a new clamp and new top. The scratches and blemishes don't match at all for those parts. At some point, as Gino points out, the Kobold was re-attached upside down... who knows why or when for sure, but so far I can't see any evidence that it was upside down for filming. Possibly it was re-dressed when getting ready for ROTJ as one of them showed up on Day 1 filming.

    One thing to watch for throughout production is the D ring itself on each different saber. Completely different shapes.
    Im so glad you said this about the D rings because Ive been looking a lot at that very thing but thought I might just be nuts.


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  21. halliwax's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 2, 2017, 12:07 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #71

    SethS said: View Post
    We say "stunt" as a generic term, but really, there's three different types-- the ones used for duels, the ones with shorter blades like this one and the Yuma when it's swung around other performers, and ones used for actor falls (Luke jumping against the side of the barge), throwing, etc.
    i sometimes get confused too.. i always think of stunt as the ANH stunts, with spinning motors..

    stunts

    resin stunts

    short blades

    swing blades



    you heard it here first folks!

    - - - Updated - - -

    ms80444 said: View Post
    I’m so glad you said this about the D rings because I’ve been looking a lot at that very thing but thought I might just be nuts.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    where have you been all day buddy, you missed all the action! we've been comparing photos all night
  22. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 2, 2017, 12:17 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #72

    halliwax said: View Post
    where have you been all day buddy, you missed all the action! we've been comparing photos all night
    Ha, I see that! Excited to absorb all the new info and expert opinions. But was good to give my brain a rest with a hockey game and some beverages.
  23. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 2, 2017, 1:06 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #73

    scottjua said: View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2014-09-24 at 12.39.36 AM.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	869.6 KB 
ID:	777459

    It was one of the bladed stunts with a short blade.
    so, my logic tells me the wampa cave saber wasnt a belt hanger, since the socket/top half had to be rigged for the stunt blade
  24. RPF Premium Member
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 2, 2017, 1:29 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #74

    thd9791 said: View Post
    so, my logic tells me the wampa cave saber wasnt a belt hanger, since the socket/top half had to be rigged for the stunt blade
    If that Wampa stunt blade is the same as this one from Bespin - which I only suspect based on the tightly pressed bunny ears as a common trait on both - the socket is indeed cut on the other side. Not sure if thats a reasonable assumption but figured Id throw it out there. Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	777478Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	777479


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  25. Sym-Cha's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Dec 2, 2017, 6:19 AM - Re: Upside-down Kobold? #75

    scottjua said: View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2014-09-24 at 12.39.36 AM.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	869.6 KB 
ID:	777459
    I wonder if this is just a pose for a publicity shot or for real filming because the lens of that camera is only capturing white Wampa fur up close

    Cham

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