Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Subscribe
  1. NS4's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2015
    Messages
    92
    Jan 7, 2018, 11:03 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #51

    Yeah, I've looked at Rhino too, but I just don't have the time/patience to try and learn *another* software!
  2. NS4's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2015
    Messages
    92
    Jan 21, 2018, 9:16 AM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #52

    With most of the work done on the underside, my attention has been focused on the top of the ship (and also obtaining copies of the vintage model kits that were used).

    I have continued to add kit parts as well as locating the holes that were added to numerous places about the ship.
    I will also be adding all the scored lines that appear on some of the panels too.
    These have all been matched to the reference photos by going back and forth between the model and Sketchup in order to get it as exact as I can.

    The technique works well and has allowed me to discover a few things that were not immediately obvious.
    An example:

    The part circled comes from the Tamiya 1/35 M16 and comes as a single piece, so I assumed it was simply glued in place as is.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture41.jpg 
Views:	82 
Size:	58.0 KB 
ID:	788801

    When I inserted it into the 3D model, it just didn't seem to match.
    When I looked further into it, I noticed that the Tamiya 1/35 8rad part that it fits into, has a small raised bar on the base where this part sits:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture43.jpg 
Views:	66 
Size:	41.8 KB 
ID:	788800

    If I cut the M16 piece into two parts (which is also done elsewhere on the ship), and then place one at the lower level (a difference of just 1.5mm), then it matches perfectly to the photos



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture44.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	43.0 KB 
ID:	788799Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture45.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	108.7 KB 
ID:	788798


    I know its only a small thing, but it's rewarding to be able to "reverse engineer" what a modeller did some thirty odd years ago.
    There have been quite a few "Eureka" moments like that too!

    As for progress, here are some overlays of where the model currently sits:


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture39.jpg 
Views:	63 
Size:	188.0 KB 
ID:	788804Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture38.jpg 
Views:	77 
Size:	170.1 KB 
ID:	788805Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture37.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	212.0 KB 
ID:	788806


    and a couple of quick renders:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture42.jpg 
Views:	68 
Size:	175.3 KB 
ID:	788802Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture40.jpg 
Views:	86 
Size:	106.1 KB 
ID:	788803
  3. joberg's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2013
    Messages
    5,065
    4 Weeks Ago  Jan 21, 2018, 1:18 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #53

    Ooooh! Looking very good! Eager to see the next updates on that project
  4. NS4's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2015
    Messages
    92
    4 Weeks Ago  Jan 28, 2018, 9:24 AM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #54

    Work continued this week on adding kit parts to the top front half of the ship.
    It's been tedius work at times, adding each individual part and then moving/rotating it to match all the reference images that it appears on.
    Lots of back and forth, and incremential movements of fractions of a mm...

    Getting close to being done though, with just the cluster of parts below the windows on each side to do.
    I'm pretty happy with how everything is fitting together.

    Here are the overlays showing the current progress:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture48.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	311.3 KB 
ID:	790469

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture49.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	268.6 KB 
ID:	790468

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture50.jpg 
Views:	32 
Size:	250.0 KB 
ID:	790467


    And a render:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture51.jpg 
Views:	50 
Size:	167.9 KB 
ID:	790466


    On a side note, I happened to learn about a great little (free/donationware) program this week for anyone who regularly uses reference images.
    It's called PureRef

    Very cool and worth checking out if your into building replicas.
    I wish I'd known about it when I started this project...
  5. lunadude's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2010
    From
    Texas
    Messages
    118
    3 Weeks Ago  Jan 29, 2018, 5:57 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #55

    I would love to know more about your underlay/overlay technique for matching the mesh to the reference images. Is there a tutorial somewhere?
  6. NS4's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2015
    Messages
    92
    3 Weeks Ago  Jan 29, 2018, 9:57 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #56

    No tutorial I'm afraid as I'm making this up as I go along!

    The simplest way to do it would be to model directly in Sketchup.
    See SteveStarkillers thread on his Falcon interior build for a great example:

    https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=102451

    Working directly in sketchup would probably be more efficient, but I'm familiar with the CAD package that I use and I wanted the highest quality model to allow me to create both a 3D printable version and one that I could derive templates from for a physical build at a later date.

    Here is a quick rundown of my process:

    I created a basic model in CAD as accurately as I could, using the traditional method of scaling from images and using the known kit parts to get close to the overall scale.
    Once I had that done (which too a lot of work in itself), I exported the model to sketchup and then used its "photo match" feature.
    You can find a few tutorials on how to use it. Basically you use perspective lines on your model to set the vanishing points and establish the correct focal length and view for each reference image.
    It is not an exact science - especially when you are using analog based images (as in my case) that may or may not have been cropped and scaled.
    It is also not really designed for images that don't have much in the way of perspective either (eg plan and underside views), but with a lot of fiddling you can get it to work on most images.
    I found that I was continually tweaking the photo matches as the model progressed up until the main structure was matched. I haven't really messed with them much since.
    Obviously, the more reference images used the better and in SU they are tabbed so you can flick between them.
    Once that is done, you can compare your CAD model to the reference (as per the screenshot I've posted throughout the thread).
    It's then just a matter of looking at how the part you're working on needs to be moved/rotated, changing it in the CAD software and then resending it back to Sketchup to check.
    Rinse and repeat until the placement and rotation looks correct!
  7. joberg's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2013
    Messages
    5,065
    3 Weeks Ago  Jan 30, 2018, 7:49 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #57

    Thanks for the tuto I'm jumping up and down as I type...cannot wait
  8. NS4's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2015
    Messages
    92
    3 Weeks Ago  Feb 4, 2018, 9:23 AM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #58

    Progress continues...
    I'll refrain from posting anymore overlays though, as I think folks have probably seen enough!

    The top front half of the ship is now done bar a few missing kit parts still to ID.

    A couple of renders, along side comparison reference images:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture52.jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	326.2 KB 
ID:	792483

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture53.jpg 
Views:	44 
Size:	263.8 KB 
ID:	792482

    Work has now started on the back half with plenty still to do.
    The engines will no doubt be a challenge, and lots of kit parts on either side too.

    The centre "opening/hatch" section is the first to be tackled.
    Progress so far:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture54.jpg 
Views:	62 
Size:	281.4 KB 
ID:	792481

    Purchasing of the required vintage kits also continues in the background...
    I now have about 70% in hand (and a much lighter wallet to prove it! ).

    More updates soon...
  9. joberg's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2013
    Messages
    5,065
    2 Weeks Ago  Feb 4, 2018, 12:58 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #59

    Yep, it's coming along fine; as you said, with a few pieces missing here and there. But, I have to say that you're build is very exciting to follow
  10. NS4's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2015
    Messages
    92
    2 Weeks Ago  Feb 4, 2018, 8:27 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #60

    Thanks Joberg. I appreciate you following along
  11. RPF Premium Member joewhite's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2007
    From
    Wichita Falls, TX
    Messages
    809
    2 Weeks Ago  Feb 5, 2018, 6:07 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #61

    Please, more overlays! I'm trying to figure out how to apply this technique to one of my projects. I love Alien, but have never been interested in the Narcissus. I'm really here because of the attention to detail and results of your labor. Really cool!

    Joe

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  12. NS4's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2015
    Messages
    92
    2 Weeks Ago  Feb 5, 2018, 9:46 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #62

    Thank you very much Joe
    I would love to see more people use the technique. If you do, please post a thread!

    I don't think you could find any other way to achieve this level of accuaracy unless you had access to the original model.
    That being the case, then photogrammetry would probably be the way to go, but not everyone has access to photograpgh a model in person (with photogrammetry in mind), even if it does still exist.

    The key to success, is having reference photos that are shot from different angles. A single photo of an area can work, but having multiple angles really increases the accuracy.

    It's been really exciting to discover all the minute "secrets" of this particular model (and frustrating, because as you say, it only has a small niche following, which means I don't really have anyone to share it with - apart from this thread!).

    As an example, I can tell you that this bent wire is approx 1.3mm dia and bent up slightly (11 degrees) from horizontal.
    This is something that is not easily "eyeballed"...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture57.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	55.4 KB 
ID:	792995

    I have found that the "clamps" on the outside of the ship were modified a couple of times during the build.
    Initially when they were added they were longer, but were later shortened.
    The top of the clamp was also cut off - presumably to allow it to fit/work properly in the release arm:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture59.jpg 
Views:	60 
Size:	64.5 KB 
ID:	792994 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture60.jpg 
Views:	57 
Size:	79.2 KB 
ID:	792993

    I initially didn't notice it, but with the model overlayed, it was clear to see.

    These metal fittings were either a found item or hand fabricated.
    I was able to match the size and profile of both exactly by modelling over the top of the photos:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture58.jpg 
Views:	70 
Size:	49.9 KB 
ID:	792992 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture61.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	106.9 KB 
ID:	793005

    And lastly, some overlays of current progress

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture55.jpg 
Views:	56 
Size:	224.1 KB 
ID:	792991


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture56.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	134.0 KB 
ID:	792990
  13. joberg's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2013
    Messages
    5,065
    2 Weeks Ago  Feb 6, 2018, 7:38 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #63

    Yep, as you have discovered, some greeblies were done "on site" and didn't come from a model box being used and abused
  14. RPF Premium Member joewhite's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2007
    From
    Wichita Falls, TX
    Messages
    809
    2 Weeks Ago  Feb 7, 2018, 3:03 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #64

    You're very welcome! I'm definitely studying this thread and seeing if I can make something work with Sketchup and Rhino. I'm still in early research so I'll refrain from posting anything now, but yeah, I'll definitely post once I make good progress.

    Those metal parts reminded me of parts from a metal drafting pen/pencil, like a Rotring.

    Joe

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  15. NS4's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2015
    Messages
    92
    2 Weeks Ago  Feb 7, 2018, 7:54 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #65

    No worries Joe. If I can help at all, please feel free to ask.

    Good idea on the metal parts.
    I actually have a few Rotring pens and while the shape is similar, the parts on the ship are considerably larger.

    TBH, I think that they were probably custom fabricated, as they needed to match the fullsize set that had been built first.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture62.jpg 
Views:	54 
Size:	78.9 KB 
ID:	793713
  16. RPF Premium Member joewhite's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2007
    From
    Wichita Falls, TX
    Messages
    809
    2 Weeks Ago  Feb 8, 2018, 12:08 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #66

    Doh! I'm not as familiar with the model but familiar enough to have realized the size. Thanks as well....I might have questions for you know the near future.

    Joe

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  17. NS4's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2015
    Messages
    92
    1 Week Ago  Feb 12, 2018, 9:16 AM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #67

    Most of the kit parts have now been modelled and placed on the bow of the ship.

    I'm really happy with the match against the reference images.
    The overlay shows that it is very close to perfect.

    Port:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture64.jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	270.9 KB 
ID:	795144

    Starboard :

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture66.jpg 
Views:	47 
Size:	245.8 KB 
ID:	795146

    Bow render:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture63.jpg 
Views:	63 
Size:	172.1 KB 
ID:	795145

    This leaves the EMA tubing on both sides (and the few kit parts that sit on top of it) to do, and of course the main engines...

    On the kit buying front, I've now managed to purchase 90% of the required parts, with just a couple of kits still eluding me...
  18. joberg's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2013
    Messages
    5,065
    1 Week Ago  Feb 12, 2018, 7:42 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #68

    Beauty all the way! This is getting better and better by the post
  19. Member Since
    Aug 2010
    From
    PA, USA
    Messages
    199
    1 Week Ago  Feb 13, 2018, 8:27 PM - Re: A L I E N Narcissus #69

    Man, that is close enough for me!! Allowing for perspective distortion, I'd say its just about perfect. And I pride myself on perfection.

Similar Threads

  1. WIP Narcissus from Alien
    GF, General Modeling
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Dec 2, 2014, 10:56 AM
  2. Phil Rae SS Narcissus
    deraenged, Studio Scale Models
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: Mar 27, 2013, 11:04 AM
  3. Narcissus ref pics?
    Durrett, General Modeling
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Apr 30, 2012, 7:34 AM
  4. Narcissus Int
    division 6, General Modeling
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Sep 6, 2008, 5:36 PM
  5. Aliens Narcissus
    Primetime21, Studio Scale Models
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Jan 24, 2008, 10:49 PM

Tags