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  1. SethS's Avatar
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    Nov 8, 2017, 6:47 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #76

    I am probably wrong, but what if the the pommel started with being turned on a lathe, then was put on a drill press to clear our the spaces. As in drilling down with the pommel resting on its base. That might account for those rounded parts. After that they'd have to clean them up further.
  2. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    Nov 8, 2017, 6:50 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #77

    SethS said: View Post
    I am probably wrong, but what if the the pommel started with being turned on a lathe, then was put on a drill press to clear our the spaces. As in drilling down with the pommel resting on its base. That might account for those rounded parts. After that they'd have to clean them up further.
    Had a friend do this on some round stock, and it ended up shrinking the bottom corners of the cubes, looked super weird

    I always understood why dan's model is slightly swooped, since thats the way its made. The V2 could have been cleaned up even more by handŅ
  3. SethS's Avatar
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    Nov 8, 2017, 6:59 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #78

    I always assumed that's how it was done.

    We know they started with the wooden lathed master, that was then cast.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The pommel was rounded like that with the angles-- so they slice it, then drill down the holes from the center bit, clean them up, then sandwich it back together and attach it to the rest right?

    A wooden lathe and casting seems like a no-brain for the ANY prop department, but CNC and/or milling machines seems to specialized for the slipshod fast-paced work they were doing-- especially since these were stunt rigs never meant to be seen up close.

    There's also the chance of clean-up being done on-set for ROTJ.
  4. halliwax's Avatar
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    Nov 8, 2017, 7:20 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #79

    SethS said: View Post
    I always assumed that's how it was done.

    We know they started with the wooden lathed master, that was then cast.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	shared_stunt_bucks.jpg 
Views:	117 
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ID:	772062Click image for larger version. 

Name:	LukeRealBlank.jpg 
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Size:	72.0 KB 
ID:	772066

    The pommel was rounded like that with the angles-- so they slice it, then drill down the holes from the center bit, clean them up, then sandwich it back together and attach it to the rest right?

    A wooden lathe and casting seems like a no-brain for the ANY prop department, but CNC and/or milling machines seems to specialized for the slipshod fast-paced work they were doing-- especially since these were stunt rigs never meant to be seen up close.

    There's also the chance of clean-up being done on-set for ROTJ.
    Pretty sure that last picture is of a fan made replica and not a original blank.
  5. SethS's Avatar
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    Nov 8, 2017, 7:25 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #80

    I'll fight you to the ground.
  6. halliwax's Avatar
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    Nov 8, 2017, 7:28 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #81

    SethS said: View Post
    I'll fight you to the ground.
    lol only reason I say that is because just a few months ago I saw this picture for the first time on another thread and got all excited

    U know me with new pictures. Anyway someone in the thread said it was a early fan made and even named the username... it escapes me now...
  7. SethS's Avatar
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    Nov 8, 2017, 7:30 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #82

    Oh I don't doubt you-- it's still a good representation of the construction though!
  8. halliwax's Avatar
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    Nov 8, 2017, 7:30 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #83

    SethS said: View Post
    Oh I don't doubt you-- it's still a good representation of the construction though!
    Defiantly! I live for this stuff!!!
  9. Mystery Chunk RPF Premium Member PoopaPapaPalps's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 9, 2017, 10:54 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #84

    SethS said: View Post
    I always assumed that's how it was done.

    We know they started with the wooden lathed master, that was then cast.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	shared_stunt_bucks.jpg 
Views:	117 
Size:	144.3 KB 
ID:	772062

    The pommel was rounded like that with the angles-- so they slice it, then drill down the holes from the center bit, clean them up, then sandwich it back together and attach it to the rest right?....

    Might be an old topic but what's the deal with the cast's pommel section with this? Has it ever been divulged? The cast pictured with the buck here has always puzzled me. I remember ages ago reading on here that the pommel cubes were a separate construction and was sandwiched together. Dunno if this picture was the thing that gave the idea credence, but it gives me ideas that the pommel cubes were milled separately, like a ring, and then slipped over the stump and capped with the "pommel cap".

    I made a simple drawing of this idea some time back:


    Might be an explanation for the pommel's wonkiness?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by PoopaPapaPalps; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:02 AM.
  10. RPF Premium Member scottjua's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 9, 2017, 11:48 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #85

    The entire pommel is ONE piece
  11. SethS's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 9, 2017, 1:06 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #86

    Poppaó I assumed the cast piece is shaped like that for the pommel to be attached, like your drawing implies.

    Scottó what Iím suggesting could still work even as one piece, right? Youíd know better than me.
  12. RPF Premium Member
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 9, 2017, 7:07 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #87

    thd9791 said: View Post
    It also looks like the space between the pommel cubes is the same thickness from one to the next. Like, if you look at the edge of the cube ring, in between the cubes, the model makes a curve as if it was milled out with a round thing. The original prop looks like it matches the arc of the pommel, making sharp corners with the cubes.

    granted, I'm not sure how a machine would make that.

    Attachment 772052Attachment 772053
    It's 3-4 passes with an end mill per notch -- one or two passes (depending on diameter of tool) with the end of the tool cutting the flat at the base of the notch between cubes, and then the other two passes with the side of the end mill cutting the sides of the cubes.

    I think that small arc present on the 3d model could be resolved by taking off a few thousandths of the diameter of the section just above it to create a slight step, and then cutting that same section just a little wider by cutting into the start of the cubes section. That way the curved edge (which must occur at the transition between a flat and curved surface) falls onto the tiny step (as is visible in the reference pics) between the start of the cubes and that band just above it, rather than the edge of the flat surface in between the cubes. I'm not sure if that makes sense but I'll try to draw up a quick model.
  13. Mystery Chunk RPF Premium Member PoopaPapaPalps's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 9, 2017, 8:55 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #88

    scottjua said: View Post
    The entire pommel is ONE piece
    Well, that solves that.
  14. RPF Premium Member
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 9, 2017, 11:56 PM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #89

    thd9791 said: View Post
    It also looks like the space between the pommel cubes is the same thickness from one to the next. Like, if you look at the edge of the cube ring, in between the cubes, the model makes a curve as if it was milled out with a round thing. The original prop looks like it matches the arc of the pommel, making sharp corners with the cubes.

    granted, I'm not sure how a machine would make that.

    Attachment 772052 Attachment 772053
    E Williams said: View Post
    It's 3-4 passes with an end mill per notch -- one or two passes (depending on diameter of tool) with the end of the tool cutting the flat at the base of the notch between cubes, and then the other two passes with the side of the end mill cutting the sides of the cubes.

    I think that small arc present on the 3d model could be resolved by taking off a few thousandths of the diameter of the section just above it to create a slight step, and then cutting that same section just a little wider by cutting into the start of the cubes section. That way the curved edge (which must occur at the transition between a flat and curved surface) falls onto the tiny step (as is visible in the reference pics) between the start of the cubes and that band just above it, rather than the edge of the flat surface in between the cubes. I'm not sure if that makes sense but I'll try to draw up a quick model.

    Here's what I meant about the step at the edge of the pommel cubes. I'm not sure which is right after staring at the V2 and shared stunt pics a bit more.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pommel cubes.png 
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    Here is a real-world example where I accidentally did one side of the cubes with the step and the other without on a saber made ages ago. Harder to tell a difference without the clean lines of a computer model:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by E Williams; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:05 AM.
  15. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 10, 2017, 12:01 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #90

    Thats an awesome diagram! Thanks for this, I actually have a relatively good idea what we're talking about now
  16. RPF Premium Member scottjua's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 10, 2017, 1:53 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #91

    E Williams said: View Post
    Here's what I meant about the step at the edge of the pommel cubes. I'm not sure which is right after staring at the V2 and shared stunt pics a bit more.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pommel cubes.png 
Views:	150 
Size:	781.2 KB 
ID:	772219

    Here is a real-world example where I accidentally did one side of the cubes with the step and the other without on a saber made ages ago. Harder to tell a difference without the clean lines of a computer model:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	my cubes.JPG 
Views:	128 
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ID:	772222
    looks exactly how it should
  17. RPF Premium Member Inigou's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 14, 2017, 3:45 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #92

    Hi Dan.
    Would be possible to have the render in that exact position but without the draw lines?
    I think i have seen some few mistakes but need to be sure. The lines dont let me see it correctly?
    Thanks!
  18. Mr Mold Maker's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 14, 2017, 4:31 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #93

    Not that you are taking votes, but I agree with what a few others have mentioned in this thread.. not a fan of the "FX" style build. The V2's I've held and painted from you were absolutely perfect not just due to the outward appearance but the weight and over all presence. Hollowing it out makes it a much less desireable piece to us fans of static hilts as they can come across feeling light and cheap... I'm also not sure how it can be claimed to have complete accuracy with such integral changes. 9 or 10 different pieces? Surface accuracy maybe...

    I always end up missing the run anyways and picking one up second hand, but I was really hoping to be on board finally for one from the get go. I really hope you consider a build closer to your second run with the updated model for a future run.
    Last edited by Mr Mold Maker; 3 Weeks Ago at 8:53 PM.
  19. RPF Premium Member Pixelpiper's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 14, 2017, 7:38 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #94

    Mr Mold Maker said: View Post
    Hollowing it out makes it a much less desireable piece to us fans of static hilts. I'm also not sure how it can be claimed to have complete accuracy with such internal changes. Surface accuracy maybe...
    Here's the thing though. Unless you have the original prop AND have taken it apart, no one know what it looks like inside or how it's constructed. The prop however IS hollow, at the very least with a bore capable of fitting a motor and wires. IMO, this isn't (or won't be) any less accurate than any other of Dan's iterations.

    IMO, it's pointless to argue about internal accuracy.
  20. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 14, 2017, 7:38 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #95

    Inigou said: View Post
    Hi Dan.
    Would be possible to have the render in that exact position but without the draw lines?
    I think i have seen some few mistakes but need to be sure. The lines dont let me see it correctly?
    Thanks!
    Like this?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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  21. RPF Premium Member Inigou's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 14, 2017, 7:45 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #96

    roygilsing said: View Post
    Like this?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes. Thats perfect
    What are those steps in some of the rings?
  22. halliwax's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 14, 2017, 8:06 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #97

    Inigou said: View Post
    Yes. Thats perfect
    What are those steps in some of the rings?
    The grenade section?
  23. RPF Premium Member Inigou's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 14, 2017, 8:07 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #98

    Yes, sorry. The grenade section rings.
    Some appears to be stepped or something?

    halliwax said: View Post
    The grenade section?
  24. halliwax's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 14, 2017, 8:08 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #99

    Inigou said: View Post
    Yes, sorry. The grenade section rings.
    Some appears to be stepped or something?
    You mean un even? If so thatís how itís suppose to be, the rings were never even
  25. RPF Premium Member Pixelpiper's Avatar
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    4 Weeks Ago  Nov 14, 2017, 8:24 AM - Re: New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis #100

    halliwax said: View Post
    You mean un even? If so that’s how it’s suppose to be, the rings were never even
    That's not what he meant.

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