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  1. RPF Premium Member DaddyfromNaboo's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 1, 2017, 1:32 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #51

    Johan, excellent point! It is a step down from cinema of narration to cinema of attraction.

    Mor is not necessarily better, but many people think so.

    Jusr yesterday I had caught HEAT on tv, and the cinematography is fantastic. My biggest gripe about VFX in modern movies, the viewer isnt led and guided by and within imagery but flooded with information, most of it unnecessary.

    I did like R1 for ita cinematography, and the fx are well executed since sometimes hardly noticeable. Kudos for that, but still the making of is a tad boring

    As are IMO the Making of books nowadays. But that is for a different thread ...
  2. RPF Premium Member CessnaDriver's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 1, 2017, 1:39 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #52

    Nothing will ever capture my interest like practical FX and most especially models!!!
    I was in the FX magazine buyers club back in the day.
    I think it's because practical FX are fascinating to see how they did it, everyone enjoys how clever
    the magician's tricks work.
    Digital? Oh boy yes, very boring.
  3. SethS's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 1, 2017, 3:20 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #53

    Dem Bones said: View Post
    Yeah, this conversation didn't really start out as a cgi vs analog death match. It was basically about which method of creating effects is inherently more interesting to watch and read about as fans of this stuff, that's all. It's not a ding on the quality, difficulty or artistry of cgi. For the record, I thought Rogue One looked fantastic overall.

    But, like PoopaPapaPalps mentioned above, it all points to a bigger question: when does spectacular imagery in film become boring? I'm not talking about the background scenery stuff that you're not suppose to notice anyway. I'm talking about the big, intentional SFX moments that are designed to take your breath away, like the mothership in Close Encounters. We've been so inundated with over-the-top imagery in films for the last 20-30 years that special effects have almost become a kind of white noise. That's especially true in the hands of lesser directors who don't know how to pace their films or integrate the effects scenes in the first place.
    I think the Hobbit films are a great example. Everything in the same focal plane, the frame packed with endless tiny details. The PT suffered a bit from this too. A well composed shot should direct your eye to where it needs to be, not be full of a thousand moving parts.
  4. RPF Premium Member Dem Bones's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 1, 2017, 5:42 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #54

    SethS said: View Post
    I think the Hobbit films are a great example. Everything in the same focal plane, the frame packed with endless tiny details. The PT suffered a bit from this too. A well composed shot should direct your eye to where it needs to be, not be full of a thousand moving parts.

    I skipped the Hobbit trilogy but what you're saying doesn't surprise me. Jackson, much like PT Lucas, seems to have become a little too fond of visual bloat. BTW, since you're a writer, I'd be curious to know if you thought The Hobbit really needed to be three movies. From what I remember of the book, that seems like overkill.

    Anybody here a fan of Spielberg's War of the Worlds? That's one example that comes to mind where I thought they did a good job of using cgi to tell the story without letting it take over.
  5. SethS's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 1, 2017, 8:03 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #55

    There's totally no need for The Hobbit to be three movies!
  6. Member Since
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 1, 2017, 8:48 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #56

    .
    - For me, I got into "Movie Magic" when it was still being created by the early creators of Star Trek (most notably NEXT GEN. 30 years ago).
    Watching "the making of" was what got me interested in prop making and how it was being done by the experts and that they
    were already there creating the cool stuff!
    I would remember there names and what they were known for and how it all came together to create the final project.

    I would search out current magazines and went to conventions to hopefully rub shoulders with the best.
    Some of it rubbed off and I took the time to learn how to use the tools of the trade. Actual machines with motors.
    My interest evolved around the electronics and function of props of the time and was lucky enough to get my "15 minutes of fame" working
    in the industry for a number of years (17).

    As time went on, I could see however more and more was being done by computer generated imagery and the fun of learning started to wane and
    it has not slowed.
    I think the last film/series I watched where I could see a well balanced mixture of both "practical and computer" was Firefly/Serenity.

    I guess it is all about cost and speed to get it done these days. I still feel sad when the greats pass away.
    In my eyes, it is a lost art for sure.....

    Craftsmanship is a thing of the past.
    noun [uncountable] /ˈkrɑːftsmənʃɪp/ the skill involved in making something beautiful or practical using your hands. Crafts and craftspeople:artisan, carver, craft... a. the beautiful or impressive quality of something that has been made using a lot of skill.
    .
    .
    Last edited by propmaster2000; 2 Weeks Ago at 2:52 PM.
  7. modelcitizen's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 2, 2017, 5:59 AM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #57

    i stopped looking at making of books around the time they put out that ilm book after the release in theaters of the star wars special editions. i saw it in a bookstore and had previously been all over those but after leafing through it a little and seeing wireframe x-wings i put it down and walked out of the store. it wasn't the same. magic....

    i have an aversion to 3d printer lines. they make my blood pressure rise and i break out in hives.

    those 90's computer generated cartoons on tv at the time drove me to drink as well.
    Last edited by modelcitizen; 2 Weeks Ago at 6:11 AM.
  8. RPF Premium Member DaddyfromNaboo's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 2, 2017, 9:12 AM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #58

    modelcitizen said: View Post
    i stopped looking at making of books around the time they put out that ilm book after the release in theaters of the star wars special editions. i saw it in a bookstore and had previously been all over those but after leafing through it a little and seeing wireframe x-wings i put it down and walked out of the store. it wasn't the same. magic....
    Yes.

    i have an aversion to 3d printer lines. they make my blood pressure rise and i break out in hives.
    Nnnaah. Itīs just a tool.

    those 90's computer generated cartoons on tv at the time drove me to drink as well.
    To me itīs the 2015s 3D animated versions of classic children anime that for sure is not known in the states such as "Wickie the Viking" and "Maja the bee" and "Heidi". Same goes for Bob the builder and Fireman Sam.

    Strangely enough though Aardman did have a success with flushed away but chose to continue to animate the classic way, didnīt they?
  9. modelcitizen's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 2, 2017, 3:31 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #59

    yeah it's just a tool...one that will never wear your fingers down to man-nub sausage fingers if ye don't bust out that sandpaper and get to sweatin' lol
  10. JediMichael's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 2, 2017, 3:40 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #60

    Wish I had more behind the scenes books. I have the Independence Day book. I love it. Wish the model section was bigger.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and yeah, Hobbit could have been one movie for sure....too many boring parts I thought.
  11. Sluis Van Shipyards's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 2, 2017, 7:00 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #61

    modelcitizen said: View Post
    i have an aversion to 3d printer lines. they make my blood pressure rise and i break out in hives.
    To the printers themselves, my only fault with them is that I don't own one! I can't stand the lazy people, on here even, that don't finish their 3D prints and declare themselves a prop builder. Then you STILL have people on here telling them how great it is. No, you just printed something and threw a coat of paint on it!
  12. Mystery Chunk RPF Premium Member PoopaPapaPalps's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 2, 2017, 7:02 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #62

    ^ This comment...So...Much.
  13. JediMichael's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 2, 2017, 7:07 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #63

    I'd like a 3d printer, (and know how to use it and the 3d software) to help make parts to build a custom made model. But not print the whole thing as one piece and say I did it all.
  14. RPF Premium Member DaddyfromNaboo's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 2, 2017, 8:54 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #64

    Sluis Van Shipyards said: View Post
    To the printers themselves, my only fault with them is that I don't own one! I can't stand the lazy people, on here even, that don't finish their 3D prints and declare themselves a prop builder. Then you STILL have people on here telling them how great it is. No, you just printed something and threw a coat of paint on it!
    Guilty as charged. See my sig... and that was the last prop Iīve built to date

    And then we have these guys:
    https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=155323
  15. Axlotl's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 3, 2017, 1:08 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #65

    CessnaDriver said: View Post
    I think it's because practical FX are fascinating to see how they did it, everyone enjoys how clever the magician's tricks work.
    I think you just hit the nail on the head. It was akin to magic. Heck, they even called it "movie magic".
    Those guys were literally creating illusions.
    The plane in the background when Rick tells Ilsa "We'll always have Paris"... yah, that was a miniature, and the people milling around it were children.
    That scene was shot indoors on a soundstage.
    I love CGI when it's done right, but there's no mystery as to how it's done.
    The magic is gone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa-dGYjSq5k
    Last edited by Axlotl; 2 Weeks Ago at 1:15 PM.
  16. RPF Premium Member Dem Bones's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 3, 2017, 2:53 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #66

    Awesome, I never knew that about the Casablanca scene. Although, let's face it, they could have put chimps on roller skates back there and everybody would have been too busy looking at Bergman to even notice.

    When Coppola made Bram Stoker's Dracula, they decided to do most of the effects in-camera using a bunch of old school techniques. Cinefex #53 covered some of it but there's also a pretty good documentary:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0ZERoH0EDI
  17. RPF Premium Member niennumb1's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 3, 2017, 6:39 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #67

    Yeah seeing a bunch of pre-viz to layered CG work gets incredibly boring after a while. It's really cool and interesting to see just how many layers of process are put in by the finished shot, but mirroring what others have said, none of that is an impressive as watching the practical stuff getting built and figuring out all those physical logistics in the movies. I can't say CG is easy because I sure can't do it well myself, but to me, crafting something that went from noting into something you can feel and see with your own eyes that isn't in a monitor is just an incredible thing.

    In the end it's all art, but man were those artists of model and creature building just incredible..
  18. JediMichael's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 3, 2017, 8:42 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #68

    Plus, its not nearly as fun to go to a museum and look at computer screens of the CGI models used in a film.
  19. JediG60racer's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 3, 2017, 11:14 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #69

    BTTFSpencer said: View Post
    Snorkel. Albuquerque.
    Hey! You can't have that. That snorkel's been just like a snorkel to me!
  20. robn1's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 3, 2017, 11:19 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #70

    JediMichael said: View Post
    Plus, its not nearly as fun to go to a museum and look at computer screens of the CGI models used in a film.
    Ha! I remember when the Seattle Sci-Fi museum announced they were going to have an exhibit for Avatar, and I wondered how they could display cgi?
  21. SethS's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 3, 2017, 11:41 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #71

    Sadly, most museum display props and models were created specifically for museums. You're not looking at or enjoying the artistry of the real thing, just a museum showpiece. That's why I love the Chronicles and Archives books. Those are pics of the real things.
  22. Victor3's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 4, 2017, 8:54 AM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #72

    JediG60racer said: View Post
    Hey! You can't have that. That snorkel's been just like a snorkel to me!
    Watch out for the colonic irrigation...
  23. I never said Batman!!! RPF Premium Member Bigdaddy's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 5, 2017, 9:27 AM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #73

    robn1 said: View Post
    Ha! I remember when the Seattle Sci-Fi museum announced they were going to have an exhibit for Avatar, and I wondered how they could display cgi?
    I was there a few months ago and didn't see anything from Avatar ( not even the last airbender! ) However there was a huge section with original Star Trek and TNG props.
  24. robn1's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago  Oct 5, 2017, 4:04 PM - Re: ILM Behind the magic "Rogue One" - the first time a making of depresses me... #74

    Bigdaddy said: View Post
    I was there a few months ago and didn't see anything from Avatar ( not even the last airbender! ) However there was a huge section with original Star Trek and TNG props.
    This was less than a year after the movie opened. I don't know how long the display lasted or what it consisted of.

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