Wonder Woman (Post-release)

Just saw it on my own tonight. Got tired of waiting for my wife to be freed up from work.

Again, like Rogue One, I am definitely in the minority here... So I'm not going to be the guy that rails on it over and over, killing the vibe.

I'm STOKED for the excitement it's bringing to little girls. I have a couple friends with girls who won't stop talking about it... and I'm glad it's opening the doors for even more woman led movies... shows Rey wasn't just a brand success.

That said. God I hated it. I wanted it to be over so badly. That's all I'll really say.

Gimme Gamorah ANY DAY. ;)
Well I suck and still havent seen it. Although Im giving you a fist bump for not liking Rogue One. I watched it again the other day and I fell asleep. Cheers man!

Still havent seen WW though cause I suck. My birthday is on sunday so maybe I can finally get someone to see it with me then. :D
 
I'm curious to know why though, care to elaborate a bit ? Trolls claiming "it sucks, because I said it sucks" and other BS are certainly annoying, but thought-out criticism is always valued IMO. So fire away, friend !

Alrighty!

My mini review of Wonder Woman....

So it started out fine enough. I quite liked all the island stuff with Diana training – And since I had heard the island stuff is the least interesting in the movie, I was thinking “Oh man this is going to be good!”.

And then of course when Gal Gadot shows up, and is stunning as always, I figured “well even if this WERE bad, man, I could just watch her for two hours!”

When the Germans showed up I started to get the DC vibe happening.The fight scenes were all the Zach Schneider sped up, slowed down stuff - that I've never been a fan of - and yet it wasn't a Zack Schneider movie. So I was thinking “oh man... are they going to keep this in the same style as the other DC movies... is this moviegoing to get dreary and grey soon?”

Cuz I was kind of hoping this would be the “Guardians of the Galaxy” of this DC universe. The more fun film of the series.

Then they arrive in England and Diana said it exactly right “It's hideous”... and that's how the rest of the movie looked –hideous.

I'm not sure why the DC movies need to be so dark and miserable.Greys and browns.

So at this point we just fall into another “fish out of water”movie. It's the smurfs in New York. He-Man in New York.

Diana in England.

The only good thing is, again, Gal Gadot plays the fish out of water well. I did like her constant “Where's the war???”questions and her wanting to get there NOW.

But then we're in a boring military meeting. Where everything is boring and grey and bland... even the dialogue.

We have German enemies, but it's WW1, so it's not the really interesting German villains. And the evil Germans they choose to focus on are really bland and boring. Just stand in villains to move the plot. They want to create a gas that gets past gas masks? That's the big evil plot?

I guess it beats a power crystal plot.

Anyway, the villains were boring... and I didn't really care what they were doing. At no point did they do anything that made me want Wonder Woman beat their ass down. Don't get me wrong... obviously snuffing out women and children with gas is bad, but it isn't a personal affront to Diana. She's stepping into someone else's battle.

This is how I see it:

The Joker was out to get Batman and Gotham
Lex was out to get Superman and Batman
Vader was after the plans Luke was carrying
Kylo wanted the info Rey had in her head

These Germans didn't even know Wonder Woman existed. She was justsome costumed ringer coming into the battle she knew nothing about...politics or otherwise.

For example.... look at Ego from Guardians Vol. 2. He had this whole cool story about searching for life, wanting to spread his being throughout the universe... then you find out he gave Peter Quills mother CANCER. And you see how much that affects Quill -finding his father and then at the same time finding out his father is the one who killed his mother. You want to see Ego taken down by Quill. There's a satisfaction in him begging Quill not to kill him...trying to bargain his way out, telling Quill he'll lose his immortality.

Diana was fighting two German's she had ZERO connection to, and then in the end, the villain is revealed to be a guy we saw for like1 minute previously. Who cares?

So Diana's goal is to kill Ares, and end the war. She keeps telling Chris Pine that's her quest - But as a viewer we pretty much are with Chris Pine that Ares doesn't exist, and so not sure if this is even a possible goal. I didn't buy that the guy snorting gas was going to be Ares, it was a clear red herring, so I figured we were going to learn that Ares is just the evil in the heart of man...

Nope...

He's just a big powerful god that can get covered in rock and attack her.... Just like how Ego attacked Quill...

Except that Ego had clear goals... And we knew him the whole movie. He didn't just show up in the last act.

Oh and the second they said “God Killer” I went “it's not the sword... it's Diana”. I can't be the only one who saw that a mile away.

So in summation:

The Good:

- Gal Gadot – Great Wonder Woman. Total Bad Ass.
- Chris Pine – I just like the guy, great Charisma.
- The Island moments and training
- When it was over
- That I didn't have to wait for an end credits scene.

The Bad:

- The boring 1 dimensional villains.
- The boring 1 dimensional mega boss that I has zero investment in. Just a dude with a mustache.
- The bland cinematography. Grey boring palette. I would blame it on being a war time movie, but all the DC movies look like this.
- Boring war scenes. I kind of wish it was at least WW2... but I think Marvel has that all locked up. DC probably didn't want to be called out on trying to mimic Marvel with Cap and Agent Carter, etc.

I really really wanted to love this movie. I'm not a DC hater. I love Batman. I loved the Dark Knight Rises... it's one of my all time favorite movies, and it's just a complete mess!

But this had NO fun... No “F##K YEAH!!!” moments (though I was hoping the first time she gets on the battle field as Wonder Woman he movie would finally kick in... it didn't – for me)

And finally, two quick questions for the other viewers who maybe didn't miss the explanation...

When the Germans first come through the shield hiding the island... wasn't there a battleship? What happened to it? Maybe I imagined that.

And was it just the 3D that made some scenes so dark you could barely see faces? It's especially noticeable when you're bored, and you want, at the very least, to just stare at Gal Gadot to make it worth staying to the end... but you can't see damn thing cuz everything is so damn dark!

Guess I'll just go see Guardians 2 for the fourth time and stare at Gamora... The well lit, Gamora.

I guess this wasn't so "mini" a review... oops.
 
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Fair enough ! I don't remember it to be dark enough to obscure faces and such though, that might have been an issue with the 3D/Theatre settings.
Do very much agree on the bland villains, especially Ludendorf and Dr Poison. They were worst than bland actually, they were cartoonish at times which was really out of place.
Ares though, I somewhat liked. Apart from the ridiculous Englishman lord with a mustache when he's in full god mode, that was weird. But I liked that what you said :
Aries is just the evil in the heart of man...
Was actually true, that's what Steve tries to tell her, Ares or not, men are not all good, not always. Then Ares reveals that he did not actually actively start the war, or force anybody to fight, all he did was to whisper ideas in the ears of people.

Other than that, all fair points. If indeed you're not a fan of SNyder's style, you're in bad luck.
For me in the end, Diana and Steve carried the whole movie, and gave it a heart that simply do not exist in the previous DCEU films, which managed to trump every defaults.
And then it helps that Gadot is impossibly beautiful as well...
 
Was actually true, that's what Steve tries to tell her, Ares or not, men are not all good, not always. Then Ares reveals that he did not actually actively start the war, or force anybody to fight, all he did was to whisper ideas in the ears of people.

Yup but I actually figured we'd never SEE Ares at ALL... That once he told her all that, Diana would focus on the war at hand, and Ares would play up in a future movie of hers.


I'm gonna write a fan fiction script about Wonder Woman and Gamora and their Space-road trip adventures kicking as across the galaxy.
 
When the Germans first come through the shield hiding the island... wasn't there a battleship? What happened to it? Maybe I imagined that.

You see it sinking as the boats start arriving on the beach. I assumed it crashed on all the rocks you see around the island.

I appreciate your thoughts. I think one thing is that the movie is not really about Wonder Woman against the villains. The villains could have been anyone. IMO the point of the movie is Diana having an idea of her purpose and the world and then getting that slapped down and then making the decision to be a protector anyway. The focus of the movie was never on the hero/villain dynamic ever even when Ares pops up.
 
You see it sinking as the boats start arriving on the beach. I assumed it crashed on all the rocks you see around the island.

I appreciate your thoughts. I think one thing is that the movie is not really about Wonder Woman against the villains. The villains could have been anyone. IMO the point of the movie is Diana having an idea of her purpose and the world and then getting that slapped down and then making the decision to be a protector anyway. The focus of the movie was never on the hero/villain dynamic ever even when Ares pops up.


I agree 100%, but then that does make any battle that occurs kinda boring because the stakes aren't there.

All the elements were there for a good movie... just... off.

Oh well... I got Logan (which may be my favorite superhero movie ever) and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 (Which may be my favorite Marvel Movie) this year, so not hurting that Wonder Woman didn't click for me.
 
As Axlotl says - Ares never forced humanity to do anything. He only ever whispered knowledge to us. He enabled us - he didn't make us - and that is where he believes his greatest strength lies in regards to bringing Diana to his way of thinking. His reveal that he never made us do anything is when Diana is so, so close to giving up on the idea of a humanity that is capable of being redeemed. Thankfully Steve's sacrifice, her own experiences with us, and even Dr Poison's revealed pain and suffering showed Diana that we can be more.

His entire driving force and his motivation throughout the story was that he needed to show the other Gods that Humanity, Zeus's creation, was ****ty. Humanity was selfish and cruel and yet Zeus showed us favour. Ares couldn't stand it, so he encouraged Humanity to war between itself, and he fought every God that disagreed with him or went against him. Zeus created the Amazons to try and encourage humanity to be good once more, but Ares wanted to turn the world, this paradise, back into a paradise instead of the sick place we've made it. Zeus's response to this was to banish Ares to almost nothingness but to also create Diana. She's literally the God's last hope to forge the right path for humanity.

Of course the hopeful truth (if it is true) is that we are cruel and horrible but we are also much more than that, we are hopeful and kind and strong and loving. That we stumble and fall (MoS) but we are capable of rising to challenges and besting them, overcoming our failures (BvS) and that ultimately, we are capable of astounding things when we choose to love instead of hate (WW). DCEU has some solid themes running through it. ;)

Indeed.

This very idea is echoed in the one song with lyrics on the soundtrack.


Sounds like a standard somewhat sappy love song, but they lyrics are amazingly well suited to the film and its underlying themes.

Under rich, relentless skies
I've been setting highs
I felt you walk right through me
You're the thing that I invoke
My all persistent goal
Sent to make me queasy

And oh, it's hard now
With time, it works out

To be human is to love
Even when it gets too much
I'm not ready to give up
To be human is to love
Even when it gets too much
I'm not ready to give up

All the tigers have been out
I don't care, I hear them howl
I let them tear right through me
Can you help me not to care?
Every breath becomes a prayer
Take this pain from me

And oh, you're so far now
So far from my arms now

To be human is to love
Even when it gets too much
I'm not ready to give up
To be human is to love
Even when it gets too much
I'm not ready to give up
To be human
To be human
To be human

Just 'cause I predicted this
Doesn't make it any easier to live with
And what's the point of knowin' it
If you can't change it? You can't change, can't change it
Just 'cause I predicted this
Doesn't make it any easier to live with
And what's the point of knowin' it
If you can't change it? You can't change, can't change it

To be human is to love
Even when it gets too much
I'm not ready to give up
To be human is to love
Even when it gets too much
There's no reason to give up

Don't give up
 
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Interesting that unlike with rogue one, I haven't ran across many online reviews that back up my distaste for this flick. I'm alone, yelling into the void.

well everyone I've talked to I've said to go see it. I'm clearly in a tiny minority here and don't want to lead people astray.

i just watched redlettermedias review and they pretty much said everything I said, but liked it. Huh.
 
So Diana's goal is to kill Ares, and end the war. She keeps telling Chris Pine that's her quest - But as a viewer we pretty much are with Chris Pine that Ares doesn't exist, and so not sure if this is even a possible goal. I didn't buy that the guy snorting gas was going to be Ares, it was a clear red herring, so I figured we were going to learn that Ares is just the evil in the heart of man...

Nope...

He's just a big powerful god that can get covered in rock and attack her...

Well, the thing is, the entire point of the movie, and Diana's quest to stop Ares, is for her to learn that Ares doesn't matter. To learn that he's not the one orchestrating war and strife in the world of Man. Having Ares wind up being some abstract "evil in the heart of man" would have completely derailed Wonder Woman's ultimate purpose -- which is to better mankind, not just endlessly attempt to fight the concept of Ares.
 
Well, the thing is, the entire point of the movie, and Diana's quest to stop Ares, is for her to learn that Ares doesn't matter. To learn that he's not the one orchestrating war and strife in the world of Man. Having Ares wind up being some abstract "evil in the heart of man" would have completely derailed Wonder Woman's ultimate purpose -- which is to better mankind, not just endlessly attempt to fight the concept of Ares.

Yup... I keep agreeing when people say this... BUT...

IF that was the point, we didn't need Ares in the end with a boring "turning into a rock monster knight" battle that I didn't care about.

I would rather her have joined the war and helped them do what the BATTLE goal was... to destroy the gas.

Instead it DID become a final showdown of her versus Ares... right after being revealed he just whispers evil.
 
Ares is not a god doing it for the EVULS. He is the god of war. He feeds on combat. He doesn't care who is fighting or what they are fighting about, as long as people fight. As such, he doesn't take sides. He manipulates both sides against each other, urging them to fight. The more fighting happens, the more powerful he becomes. Contrary to the myths Diana was told, Ares did not put the desire to fight in men's hearts. He simply encourages it and feeds from it.
 
Yup... I keep agreeing when people say this... BUT...

IF that was the point, we didn't need Ares in the end with a boring "turning into a rock monster knight" battle that I didn't care about.

Really, the whole point is that for as sophisticated has her people are, Diana went into the world of man completely naive. She was of the single-minded belief that Ares was responsible for all war and defeating him would bring peace. It was a pretty huge thing for her to leave the island.

So while I won't disagree that the end battle with Ares was sloppy, I would argue that it was necessary. She HAD to fight him and defeat him in order to tear down the theology she was raised with and realize that the problems with mankind were far more complex. Simply shrugging off Ares and going to battle against the gas would be to completely disregard the importance and weight of her leaving the island.
 
Heh. Got a chuckle out of this:

9GrV14o.gif
 
Went to see it again with a buddy this time, he loved it, and I loved it as much as the first time. Had the same problem with Dr Poison and Lundendorff who were over the top in their delivery half the time they were on screen, but I guess it kinda fit the vibe Jenkins went for with all the Superman nodes. Like the guys that fall straight like planks when knocked out. Cartoonish and a bit out of place I thought. But the rest is so good, that it doesn't matter in the end.
It hit me again how genuinely warm and kind Gadot is, and by extension Diana. Or she is a much much better actress that people give her credit, but I think it's genuine. I very much hope the JL reshoots is to let her be that way again.
And I'm glad my buddy felt it too, this movie has a heart that's been missing from the previous DCEU movies, and a few recent Marvels as well in my opinion.
 
Well I finally saw it today. I dont get the pure adulation with this movie. I mean, I thought it was ok, but nowhere near how people are going insane about it. It was very paint by numbers for me, a little of captain america, a little thor, and a lot of stuff I have seen before. I swear to god they went to the same bar cap did to recruit the howling commandos. The scene with the goofy sniper not shooting anyone, the cheesy singing. The only race missing from the inclusive bingo was an asian dude, the no blood with it having being a war flick. The still not understanding about her powers, if she is impervious or not, cause Ares was hitting her with some big stuff and she shrugged it off, but she still blocked the bullets. The deus ex machina armbands that killed ares in the end. The horrible editing where she gets the sword out of the dude on the roof, and ares just stands there. Did diana knock out that lady and steal her dress? Whats with guys named steve taking planes and sacrificing themselves? I just kinda thought Steve Trevors sacrifice was dumb. Like it was totally meant for her to have heartache, so they dont have a happy ending, the war was ending, and he just had to blow up the plane in the air? One stick of dynamite and a parachute couldnt have solved that, he had to die? I really liked how Themyscira looked, the other amazons were rad. I do find Gal Gadot stunningly beautiful, her smile is enchanting. But I still dont feel as though she makes an awesome Wonder Woman, I wish she bulked up just a little to not make her physicality so teenager like. I dunno. It wasnt bad by any means but I dont think it was as good as everyone said. Definitely had its share of cheese too. The last shot was kinda hokey where she jumps into the camera at the very end. I wish this had came out before we saw her in BvS, cause I think it would have had more of an impact. Loved her riff peppered throughout the action sequences. You can really tell that it was produced by Zack and Deborah Snyder, just based on the action, and some of the pacing. I think Gal Gadots acting seemed good because nobody else was really acting it to be honest. Chris Pine was just playing Captain Kirk, Ares was lackluster and pretty predictable, the red herring of ludenoff was pretty obvious, and the Dr. Poison wasnt a threat at all. No real arcs for anyone but Diana but I guess thats what the point was. Makes me wonder what she was doing the entire time between WW 1 and BvS. I give it a B-.
 
Well, the thing is, the entire point of the movie, and Diana's quest to stop Ares, is for her to learn that Ares doesn't matter. To learn that he's not the one orchestrating war and strife in the world of Man. Having Ares wind up being some abstract "evil in the heart of man" would have completely derailed Wonder Woman's ultimate purpose -- which is to better mankind, not just endlessly attempt to fight the concept of Ares.
I dont think the point was to better mankind, the amazons were recluses on their island not interfering with men at all. The only one that ever did was Diana. I was kind of unclear on that exactly, didnt Wonder Woman say that her mission and that of the amazons is to stop Ares?
 
I dont think the point was to better mankind, the amazons were recluses on their island not interfering with men at all. The only one that ever did was Diana. I was kind of unclear on that exactly, didnt Wonder Woman say that her mission and that of the amazons is to stop Ares?

*THIS* movie was about her single-minded quest to stop Ares, which she does... and learns that stopping him didn't fix anything, which gives WW her ultimate purpose going forward: to better mankind (e.g., be a hero). That's the point I was getting at.
 
One thing I forgot to add yesterday : On second viewing, I think it's heavily implied if not downright confirmed that the sculpted clay origin was just a story Hippolyta told Diana, part of her cover up story to hide Diana's true origin and purpose. Ares says, and confirms under the influence of the lasso, that she is the child "Zeus had with Hippolyta", calls her a god, and later she calls him brother. To me it means Zeus is her biological father, the good old fashion way. That's how you achieve godhood in greek mythology usually, being born to a god. It's in my opinion a good compromise to have both the clay origin and the new 52 origin.
 
Well I finally saw it today. I dont get the pure adulation with this movie. I mean, I thought it was ok, but nowhere near how people are going insane about it. It was very paint by numbers for me, a little of captain america, a little thor, and a lot of stuff I have seen before. I swear to god they went to the same bar cap did to recruit the howling commandos. The scene with the goofy sniper not shooting anyone, the cheesy singing. The only race missing from the inclusive bingo was an asian dude, the no blood with it having being a war flick. The still not understanding about her powers, if she is impervious or not, cause Ares was hitting her with some big stuff and she shrugged it off, but she still blocked the bullets. The deus ex machina armbands that killed ares in the end. The horrible editing where she gets the sword out of the dude on the roof, and ares just stands there. Did diana knock out that lady and steal her dress? Whats with guys named steve taking planes and sacrificing themselves? I just kinda thought Steve Trevors sacrifice was dumb. Like it was totally meant for her to have heartache, so they dont have a happy ending, the war was ending, and he just had to blow up the plane in the air? One stick of dynamite and a parachute couldnt have solved that, he had to die? I really liked how Themyscira looked, the other amazons were rad. I do find Gal Gadot stunningly beautiful, her smile is enchanting. But I still dont feel as though she makes an awesome Wonder Woman, I wish she bulked up just a little to not make her physicality so teenager like. I dunno. It wasnt bad by any means but I dont think it was as good as everyone said. Definitely had its share of cheese too. The last shot was kinda hokey where she jumps into the camera at the very end. I wish this had came out before we saw her in BvS, cause I think it would have had more of an impact. Loved her riff peppered throughout the action sequences. You can really tell that it was produced by Zack and Deborah Snyder, just based on the action, and some of the pacing. I think Gal Gadots acting seemed good because nobody else was really acting it to be honest. Chris Pine was just playing Captain Kirk, Ares was lackluster and pretty predictable, the red herring of ludenoff was pretty obvious, and the Dr. Poison wasnt a threat at all. No real arcs for anyone but Diana but I guess thats what the point was. Makes me wonder what she was doing the entire time between WW 1 and BvS. I give it a B-.


Gutted, I thought this would be the one for you, chief. Glad you didn't hate it at least, haha.

So I think there's a little confusion on the history Diana was told as a child, and the history implied throughout the film for a few people. I've only seen twice now so can't confirm every detail, but we are supposed to believe just enough of Diana's child story to understand the premise - that there were Gods, and they ruled, and here we are. And then we slowly find out via Hippolyta that Holy Crap, the actual God of War is real and out there, and might soon be able to find Diana. Especially as Diana is compelled to run towards danger (something the trinity in the DCEU heavily share in common)

The story was all part of keeping Diana secluded, and keeping her potential hidden (very much like Pa Kent in MoS) to protect her from the horrors out there, both mankind and the God that didn't die.

The story isn't fact though. But Diana when we meet her is young, naive and impulsive, but also powerful and becoming more powerful rapidly. Hippolyta has to make a decision to empower her, rather than continue to allow her a childhood (she was, I assume, the first Amazon to have a childhood, like...ever).

I interpreted the Amazons to know themselves to be a force put here by Gods that no longer exist and are myth and legend to even them now, and therefore they are stuck in stasis. They prepare for a war that never comes, they don't venture beyond their shores, and they don't evolve - they still use bows and arrows etc. Diana believes so strongly in her childhood stories and is so driven to do the right thing that it forces her to evolve, even when that means losing her childhood home. In doing so, she recognises the love out there in the world of mankind, and vows to make it her purpose to show us love. Solid, cheesy but genuine stuff.
 
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