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  1. scarf man's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 29, 2017, 11:05 AM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #26

    roygilsing said: View Post
    I have made a comparison by simulating the photographic lighting, position, lens, grain, etc.
    It's not perfect, but it's close.
    All three versions are done with vintage Graflex clamps.
    I'm very curious what you all think!

    Attachment 732268

    regards,
    roy
    I'm thinking no tape. If the contrast was a little more pronounced on your no tape pic, I think the clamp lines and lettering would look identical to the original pic.
    The shadows in your pics are just not as dark as the original, but you've done a great job none the less.
    Last edited by scarf man; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:12 AM.
  2. RPF Premium Member Excelsior's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 29, 2017, 12:19 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #27

    I agree--Roy you did a very nice job with those pics. But still, I don't see any tape. The polyester mylar film is totally out--way too shiny. And yes, the aluminum foil does obscure the letters, making them appear to be more like the saber in the original reference photo. Nevertheless, there is a marked difference in finish between the aluminum foil on the clamp and the finish of the Graflex flash itself. There does not appear to be any such contrast on the original saber.

    Observe also that on the original, you actually can see the outlines where the L, E, and X letters are on the clamp. The X is somewhat visible on the clamp with the aluminum tape due to its position in the light, but the L and E are totally washed out, as I suspected would happen.

    Your picture of the hilt without tape looks closest to the original prop. See how there are those grey outlines of the letters L and E? They're a bit blurrier on the original and the lighting is a little darker, but they're there as well.

    Again I point to the cleanliness of the cutouts in the clamp as evidence of there being no tape. I also want to emphasize the identical finish between the clamp and the Graflex body as indicating no tape.
  3. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 29, 2017, 1:02 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #28

    Excelsior said: View Post
    I agree--Roy you did a very nice job with those pics. But still, I don't see any tape. The polyester mylar film is totally out--way too shiny. And yes, the aluminum foil does obscure the letters, making them appear to be more like the saber in the original reference photo. Nevertheless, there is a marked difference in finish between the aluminum foil on the clamp and the finish of the Graflex flash itself. There does not appear to be any such contrast on the original saber.

    Observe also that on the original, you actually can see the outlines where the L, E, and X letters are on the clamp. The X is somewhat visible on the clamp with the aluminum tape due to its position in the light, but the L and E are totally washed out, as I suspected would happen.

    Your picture of the hilt without tape looks closest to the original prop. See how there are those grey outlines of the letters L and E? They're a bit blurrier on the original and the lighting is a little darker, but they're there as well.

    Again I point to the cleanliness of the cutouts in the clamp as evidence of there being no tape. I also want to emphasize the identical finish between the clamp and the Graflex body as indicating no tape.
    You know what, I tend to fully agree!
    This was my conclusion after making the photos as well. The fact that you can see the letters better than in the original might be due to lighting and contrast. And I agree that the gloss without tape is very similar.

    Applying the tape for the prop made total sense to me though; as a prop maker you'd never know how close the prop will be shot and covering the logo makes sense for a Galaxy far far away. It also makes sense to cut out the rectangles, because these holes are so deep that the alu tape almost automatically rips open.

    I might try to do a better photographic test in a while, with a darker environment, to simulate the original even better.
    @SethS sorry mate, if I let you down!
  4. Chris RPF Premium Member teecrooz's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 29, 2017, 1:16 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #29

    I agree also! Remember that the Graflex was likely a Folmer with straight pins. They have a shinier finish (less brushed looking), so the washout and light reflection would be greater.
  5. SethS's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 29, 2017, 1:16 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #30

    I was firmly undecided! I wouldn't be surprised if it was on one or two of the props, but it certainly wasn't on all of them. I don't know about the tape you used, but mine was really unforgiving. Getting it on, lined up correctly, and wrinkle and ding free would have taken much care, and everything points to these things being thrown together.
    Last edited by SethS; 3 Weeks Ago at 1:29 PM.
  6. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 29, 2017, 1:42 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #31

    SethS said: View Post
    I was firmly undecided! I wouldn't be surprised if it was on one or two of the props, but it certainly wasn't on all of them. I don't know about the tape you used, but mine was really unforgiving. Getting it on, lined up correctly, and wrinkle and ding free would have taken much care, and everything points to these things being thrown together.
    I agree.
  7. Jedi Reali's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 29, 2017, 5:08 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #32

    Stellar job on the comparison shots, @roygilsing. I have to agree with the consensus as well. The difference in reflection on the finish between each one really stands out.
  8. Kenzie C01's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 6:26 AM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #33

    Looks like it isn't covered to me, maybe the clamp is a variant with the painted letters, but were there any Folmers like that? I've only seen Graflex Inc. clamps with black lettering


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  9. RPF Premium Member scottjua's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 10:02 AM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #34

    In MY opinion... there's no tape. For me there is no debate. Aside from photo evidence, based on my research on graflexes alone, I found that nearly all early Folmers (which I believe the original prop to be made from) usually had a more polished/shiny finish overall and some clamps had a more lightly stamped G R A F L E X logo on the clamps. Which makes the letters look less pronounced... like you might see with a later vintage clamp to look with the layer of aluminum tape.
  10. Member Since
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 2:54 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #35

    Just go with what you feel is best. Me I will cover the word Graflex, because that's how I've seen the saber clamp for years.
  11. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 3:05 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #36

    Me, I am stubborn. But now that I've done my own investigation with the photo shoot and reading the opinions, I am in the no tape camp. I don't easily take things for granted, but I have to learn to be less conclusive because my eyes CAN deceive me, even though I trust my vision so much. Perhaps too much. So this exercise is good fun, but also a good lesson for me!

    Roy
  12. SethS's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 4:33 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #37

    A little debate and experimentation is fun part. I knew I'd never do it just cause of how bad it looks in person.
  13. kevin926's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 7:21 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #38

    This is why I'm hooked on The RPF. Passion for the craft is beyond compare. Every prop has been picked apart, blown up and put back together again. And we still find new pieces that were missed. New ways to replicate our props over and over. Cudos people, even if the tape falls in the no category, it's still fun and eye opening
  14. ImperialShuttle's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 8:36 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #39

    SethS said: View Post
    I was firmly undecided! I wouldn't be surprised if it was on one or two of the props, but it certainly wasn't on all of them. I don't know about the tape you used, but mine was really unforgiving. Getting it on, lined up correctly, and wrinkle and ding free would have taken much care, and everything points to these things being thrown together.
    Do we know how experienced and skilled the prop builders were who made the original sabers? A good artist could lay down tape or foil quite seemlessly. I worked in a vinyl sign shop for a summer once when I was young and became fairly skilled at applying adhesive materials without bubbles or creases. It's all in the technique. Water and dish soap solution sprayed on the clamp and a squeege should smooth out the tape. I tend to agree with the no tape camp though.
  15. Hodor RPF Premium Member KhalDrogo's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 10:00 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #40

    It was just one guy - Roger Christian. And by his own account he didn't spend much time slapping these things together, so its doubtful if there was tape that he took the time and care with it like you're talking about.
  16. ImperialShuttle's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 10:26 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #41

    KhalDrogo said: View Post
    It was just one guy - Roger Christian. And by his own account he didn't spend much time slapping these things together, so its doubtful if there was tape that he took the time and care with it like you're talking about.
    Thank you. I agree. For anyone else that wants to try it, mix water and little dish soap solution and mist it onto the back of the tape and then use a credit card to smooth it out. I haven't tried it, but I think the adhesive will still be there when the solution dries. The tape should hold after 24 hours. This is probably known.
  17. halliwax's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 10:37 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #42

    ImperialShuttle said: View Post
    Thank you. I agree. For anyone else that wants to try it, mix water and little dish soap solution and mist it onto the back of the tape and then use a credit card to smooth it out. I haven't tried it, but I think the adhesive will still be there when the solution dries. The tape should hold after 24 hours. This is probably known.
    Did Roger do the props for empire and Jedi? Or only ANH?


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  18. Mystery Chunk RPF Premium Member PoopaPapaPalps's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 10:58 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #43

    I believe he was only on for ANH because while ESB was going on, he was working on ALIEN.
  19. SethS's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  May 30, 2017, 11:19 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #44

    ...where he recycled Dr. Evizan's SE-14c...
  20. halliwax's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  Jun 2, 2017, 6:37 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #45

    SethS said: View Post
    ...where he recycled Dr. Evizan's SE-14c...
    Get out of here. Googling this now


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  21. AnubisGuard's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  Jun 2, 2017, 7:40 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #46

    halliwax said: View Post
    Get out of here. Googling this now


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    The Nostromo pistol is basically the SE-14c with a singlepoint scope added under the magazine.
  22. halliwax's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  Jun 2, 2017, 8:12 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #47

    AnubisGuard said: View Post
    The Nostromo pistol is basically the SE-14c with a singlepoint scope added under the magazine.
    Parts of Star Wars has it, so cool!!


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  23. RPF Premium Member Panaflex's Avatar
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    3 Weeks Ago  Jun 3, 2017, 1:36 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #48

    I'm going with no tape. Aesthetically, I really enjoy seeing the authenticity of the flash incorporated into the prop.
  24. RPF Premium Member Kylash's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Jun 12, 2017, 5:25 PM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #49

    Another hit against the tape theory is why would they so cleanly cut out the squares on one side, but leave them covered on the other side? And wouldnt you at least see the indents of the squares where they are not cutout on the opposite side?

    Gonna stick with no tape for now.
  25. OBI WAN KEN0B1's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago  Jun 14, 2017, 8:55 AM - Re: Debate! Chrome tape on the ANH Graflex #50

    I love these debates. It makes me so glad to be a member of such a great form.

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