Fake weapons Banned at Phoenix Comic Con

Posted this in the JDF thread, but thought I'd post here too.

I accidentally walked the floor this year at SWC with a rather large knife left in my backpack. My backpack is the type where you open the main pocket and then it has that extra laptop space or whatever it is. Well, the security lady at the door made me unzip the bag, looked at it as I walked through the metal detector, and then she just handed it to me on the other side.

Obviously I had no ill intent and didn't even realize my mistake until I was leaving in my car, but the fact that it even happened was a clear sign to me that conventions need stricter security. If any idiot can smuggle a weapon in on accident, I'm damn sure someone with intent to harm people could too.

Is banning all prop weapons the answer? I don't know.. maybe? Something should be done and it is a start.

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

While you are at it, Its not safe to have people run around in masks or face paint because it obscures their identity and its a breeding ground for an attack. Maybe we ban that also. While we are at it, the Hydra guys should be banned because they represent the Bad guys in WWII. And dont get me started with those robots......talk about a symbol of oppression.

Dude, I grew up playing Army in the streets with cap guns and green spray painted bazookas (sprinkler pipe). Today this behavior would result in the cops being called.

Cons are the only place a person can show off their wares and you want to ban all weapons? Adios all Aliens cosplayers, Adios Predators, Adios Star Wars, Adios Star Trek, Adios Firefly, Adios Deadpool, Adios Arrow, Adios Thor, Adios Black Widow Adios, LOTR peeps. Adios any character with any type of weapon. Sorry Yoda and Gandolf, that staff could be used as a weapon. Hey, lets hire off duty TSA agents to conduct security at cons for a 'Freedom Grope'.

Its Memorial Day. Lots of our forefathers died to give us certain rights. Once you give them up, it takes blood to get them back.

My solution is s security check with a sticker that is destroyed if tampered with. Cheap, easy and reliable.

Dont mean to come down on your solution but, the majority of con goers want to showcase their full costume. I dont know of a single weapon act of violence at a Con ever.
 
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Many of us found creative ways to get around the weapons ban. I grabbed one of the free movie posters and painted one end red.
IMG_3210.JPG
 
Are they also banning the sale of all replica weapons, like swords made out of wood and metal. anything made out of glass because because you can kill someone with a piece of broken glass. also some of those statues are pretty heavy, you could crack someones skull with one. what are the walls and floor made of? cos beating a head against anything hard enough can kill.

there is nothing that can be done to stop a idiot wanting to hurt another person if they are determined enough.

the idiot that wanted to kill Jason David Frank avoid the prop weapon check station, which is a BIG fail in securit. I blame the con organizers. either they set up the station in the wrong place or did not have enough security staff at the entrance to make sure that all weapons are checked.
 
Don't mean to come down on your solution but, the majority of con goers want to showcase their full costume. I dont know of a single weapon act of violence at a Con ever.

Well, it isn't my solution. As I said, is it the answer? I DON'T know. All I can say is security desperately needs an update and until it happens I'd feel safer walking the floor with the ban in place. I have seen a few vendors express the same concerns. If you NEED a weapon for people to tell who you are, your cosplay probably isn't great. Gandalf without his staff is still Gandalf. Yoda without his cane is still Yoda. Thor without his hammer is still Thor. The weapon does not define the character.
 
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Of course without metal detectors/wands for all attendees, non-costumed baddies could just walk straight in anyways if only costumed folks
are searched.
How secure do such events need to be?

I think of some pretty soft targets at any big public gathering, I won't elaborate beyond that,
So hopefully some workable solution comes to allow folks to carry important props to depicting characters.
 
I know this is a sore and touchy subject for the cosplay/costuming community, and they will forever see it as PC Bulls*** and the typical "Knee-jerk" reaction, but in all seriousness... A guy trying to get into the con and admitting he planned to kill someone... one week earlier someone walks into a concert and detonates a bomb.... what do you think is going to start happening?

Look at it from the side of non costumers and the police. They don't know what that prop gun or rifle is in your hands. It could be real. yes they can check them out one by one, but what if a small one slipped in? There is a guy who made a firing 3-D print gun last year. The future is scary. A costume that looks like armor could possibly be armor. A costume vest that has wires and whatnot could be a bomb. Nobody really knows until it is too late. So they are trying to put precautions in place and I for one cannot blame them.
 
Nothing will stop a determined person. An outright ban will only rain on the 99.99%.

"Oh crap......there is a no weapons ban today. I guess I cant shoot up the place." Said no evil person ever.

Im for BETTER security. The security got punked by this guy as he came in an unsecured door. Ive seen cons that make you zip tie your gun in the holster. As for rifles, they can use 'no tamper' tape. Or use some sort of common sense like It cannot resemble a common gun IE Star War E-11. If it does, your gun gets a zip tie and 'no tamper' tape.
 
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I know this is a sore and touchy subject for the cosplay/costuming community, and they will forever see it as PC Bulls*** and the typical "Knee-jerk" reaction, but in all seriousness... A guy trying to get into the con and admitting he planned to kill someone... one week earlier someone walks into a concert and detonates a bomb.... what do you think is going to start happening?

Look at it from the side of non costumers and the police. They don't know what that prop gun or rifle is in your hands. It could be real. yes they can check them out one by one, but what if a small one slipped in? There is a guy who made a firing 3-D print gun last year. The future is scary. A costume that looks like armor could possibly be armor. A costume vest that has wires and whatnot could be a bomb. Nobody really knows until it is too late. So they are trying to put precautions in place and I for one cannot blame them.

the bomb was detonated outside the Manchester Arena, not inside. no amount of security inside a venue will stop violence outside it.

what is been done will not prevent someone wearing normal street clothes with a hand gun tucked in the back of their pants walk into the show hall and open fire. Only by having properly trained security staff and not unpaid volunteers, so the organizers can save money. its the only way to make cons safe from idiots.

unfortunately no amount of security will stop someone willing to die.
 
the bomb was detonated outside the Manchester Arena, not inside. no amount of security inside a venue will stop violence outside it.

what is been done will not prevent someone wearing normal street clothes with a hand gun tucked in the back of their pants walk into the show hall and open fire. Only by having properly trained security staff and not unpaid volunteers, so the organizers can save money. its the only way to make cons safe from idiots.

unfortunately no amount of security will stop someone willing to die.
I get all of that... you cannot stop a determined individual, but you can make it harder. I was just saying that with each new attack and each new mass killing we see, be prepared for tighter rules. Even if the event happened outside of the costume community, but even more so if it happens at a con event... times will be changing. The day will come when not only replica weapons are banned, but masks and helmets in general. When you can walk around in state of anonymity, and they start worrying that people could do harm, hide, remove costume and proceed out the door... the game will change. I am not saying that is right and I am not looking to debate someone who says it will never happen, but the direction we are headed, one day you will see these event holders setting those types of rules.
 
It all comes down to having the proper kind of security practices needed at this day and time....extremists will always ruin it for everyone.....if a Con I go to doesn't search, metal scan me.....I may not enter....but ban props due to there inadiquit security.....that's wrong.....I see the point of Phoenix having Ultrasabers leave due to issues,but they should refund there sat-sun rental due to their decision to come back later and say" leave"....THATS AN AFTERTHOUGHT.....YOU THINK....I hope they can work it out or otherwise work it out in court....

I own a local Smog Shop that is regulated by the State of California.....and recently a customer come in..smooged his car he just bought....it failed ....then later in the day after driving it awhile saw another shop that posted no pass no pay....tested his car....it passed....and now I'm fighting over 46.00 with the credit card company because he disputed it....its not the 46 dollars....its the principle of the matter that always prevails....its already cost me 28 dollars in faxing fees at FedEx office.....I just cant stand for this kind of attitude so with Ultrasabers I feel for them....I think the Con management made the right and wrong call......
 
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It all comes down to having the proper kind of security practices needed at this day and time....extremists will always ruin it for everyone.....if a Con I go to doesn't search, metal scan me.....I may not enter....but ban props due to there inadiquit security.....that's wrong.....I see the point of Phoenix having Ultrasabers leave due to issues,but they should refund there sat-sun rental due to their decision to come back later and say" leave"....THATS AN AFTERTHOUGHT.....YOU THINK....I hope they can work it out or otherwise work it out in court....

I own a local Smog Shop that is regulated by the State of California.....and recently a customer come in..smooged his car he just bought....it failed ....then later in the day after driving it awhile saw another shop that posted no pass no pay....tested his car....it passed....and now I'm fighting over 46.00 with the credit card company because he disputed it....its not the 46 dollars....its the principle of the matter that always prevails....its already cost me 28 dollars in faxing fees at FedEx office.....I just cant stand for this kind of attitude so with Ultrasabers I feel for them....I think the Con management made the right and wrong call......

Here we have two different stories. One one side, Ultra sabers said they were kicked out after begrudgingly complying and got no refund. PhoenixCon organizers said, Ultra sabers kept selling sabers without the garbage bags AND gave them a full refund. Somewhere in the middle is the full story.

I wonder if your customer bought a car that just had all the smog info (and fault codes) erased by the seller. The OBD proly didnt have enough miles to re calibrate, but once it did, he passed. Jerk move on the guy for back charging his CC.
 
There's a law in Finland that forbids masking your identity in a public event. There's a clause there about "probable intent of performing violent acts" and a maximum sentence of 3 months. I doubt the law is very strictly enforced, but it does exist. If you carry an airsoft while going through a public area, it has to be hidden from sight and you have to a have a valid reason for having it on you. Kids seem to ignore the rules and I regularly see them playing with airsoft in the parks nearby. Cosplayers carry and display replica weapons at cons here.

Chicago & New York seem to have complete toy gun bans. Does that apply to passengers flying through to a convention somewhere with replica weapons packed in the bags? Do these cities also ban cosplay weapons at cons?

My Black Widow cosplay has airsoft glocks with epoxy-filled barrels and orange tips in the holsters. Still, this is something that makes me a little uneasy about the costume. I had them in Portland (Wizard World) and Atlanta (Dragon Con). The baton weapons are obviously not real (or about as real as lightsabers, so maybe they would get banned under the rules that are discussed here), but the airsofts would definitely be a risk to my safety, if anyone mistook them as a real threat. I'm not sure if packing them into a bag while outside convention buildings would be better or worse. Do they become concealed weapons, if they are in a bag rather than displayed? (I'm from Finland, so I'm genuinely ignorant about how this stuff works and curious about it.)

Empty holsters are certainly an option, if it makes it safer for me - I've only removed the guns from the holsters on rare occasions to have a movie style poster photo taken. Otherwise they usually stay locked down in the holsters.
 
Denver Comic Con instituted a no weapons policy starting with this year's convention (to be held end of June). Their change in policy was done last year, so way ahead of what happened in Phoenix.

I have mixed feelings. I understand the safety concern, but costumes and props are a big part of the fun for me.

Sean
 
Denver Comic Con instituted a no weapons policy starting with this year's convention (to be held end of June). Their change in policy was done last year, so way ahead of what happened in Phoenix.

I have mixed feelings. I understand the safety concern, but costumes and props are a big part of the fun for me.

Sean
Which caused me to really lose interest in going. My "weapon" is my glove for my Freddy Krueger costume. The "blades" arent sharp but because they are metal I am not allowed to have it. My phone is also metal. As well as my belt buckle, wedding ring, lightsaber hilt, keys etc etc. Also being Colorado there are plenty of people that tend to carry around pocket knives or leathermens. So the "metal" argument seems fairly dumb.
But more than that silly ban the fact that they required costumes to be PG rated really did it for me. Yeah...lets ban Slave Leia. Cause THAT seems to be an issue. Even my daughter doesnt get it. You can have less clothes on at a public pool than at a convention.
 
Bans such as these always made me wonder what they expect from criminals. If you were planning an attack on a con, there are obvious choke points for lines to enter the venue. If someone was planning to inflict damage on as many people as possible, they could just as easily attack one of those points and never even enter the convention. Yes, this ban would prevent someone from bringing a potential weapon inside (to attack someone specifically as this guy intended), but if the goal was a high body count, they wouldn't even need to bring the weapon inside.

Or they would just shoot their way in too. I have a feeling the security check point (just like this ban) wouldn't stop them one way or another.
 
Bans such as these always made me wonder what they expect from criminals. If you were planning an attack on a con, there are obvious choke points for lines to enter the venue. If someone was planning to inflict damage on as many people as possible, they could just as easily attack one of those points and never even enter the convention. Yes, this ban would prevent someone from bringing a potential weapon inside (to attack someone specifically as this guy intended), but if the goal was a high body count, they wouldn't even need to bring the weapon inside.

Or they would just shoot their way in too. I have a feeling the security check point (just like this ban) wouldn't stop them one way or another.

One does not even need weapons proper.
However, I suppose they are worried about unhinged people that could obsess on a celeb or
just think they are The Joker for real or something.
 
After speaking to one staff members who knew the details of the arrest, he acknowledged that Phx PD were the reason this person was able to gain entry.

The excuse was that they could not do anything until he was actually on the property in commission of a crime.

In other words; it is not illegal to have REAL weapons on site at the convention...
AND...
the Phx PD was instrumental in endangering the public so they could make the arrest
-according to my source who is a big supporter of the PD.
 
Knowing how things work in another convention center, I have a feeling that your source has a few errors, probably because they just don't know all the details involved.

Assuming the man had permits to carry the weapons, then no, while outside, the cops couldn't do anything. However, once he was inside, then they could. Because he had brought the weapons into a space where they were banned (I've never seen a convention center that does not ban at least firearms, regardless of permits).

So while no, the cops couldn't do anything (assuming permits) until he entered the event, it is NOT legal to have the weapons in the event.
 
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