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  1. Bryancd's Avatar
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    May 18, 2017, 7:27 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #76

    lovelyandy said: View Post
    i mean just because Dallas says 'it looks fossilised' doesnt mean it actually is scientifically speaking. the engineers on David's planet looked fossilised, but thats because of the black goo.

    i reckon an engineer goes home after a long shift on a WMD moon, see's everyons dead, goes after david, gets facehuggered, flys away, crashes but maybe tried to kill himself with black goo before hand. everyone lives happily ever after.
    Yeah he was referring specifically to the Space Jockey as appearing to have grown out of the chair and looking like a fossilized skeleton. Which is likely exactly what Ridley intended in 1979 but not anymore.
  2. lovelyandy's Avatar
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    May 18, 2017, 8:49 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #77

    Bryancd said: View Post
    Yeah he was referring specifically to the Space Jockey as appearing to have grown out of the chair and looking like a fossilized skeleton. Which is likely exactly what Ridley intended in 1979 but not anymore.
    Yeah i know, but just because it looked fossilised and growing out of the chair, doesn't mean it was fossilised and growing out of the chair.

    The black goo could have just made a flight suited engineer go all fossily and melt into the chair.


    That being said.

    Even Ridley Believe it or Scott has said he didnt ever plan on explaining the space jockey.

    I'm just trying to explain some inconsistencies in the two movies made 30 years (?) apart. Out of nothing but boredom and as a use for my opinions.
  3. Member Since
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    May 18, 2017, 12:12 PM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #78

    I think what Dallas is actually trying to say is that it is his initial impression that the space jockey is "fossilized" because he, like we, actually think the outter surface of the body as being a mineralized structure, so the whole creature is like a pertrified "mummy" with even the larger muscles and bone turned to stone, rather than as we NOW know it actual is, an environmental suit.
    The sad fact is it works brilliantly a mummified alien corpse, much less better as an odd design choice for clothing. Whenever I watch "Alien" all I still see is a strange creature, its eye sockets sunken in death deep into a skull still locked in a frozen scream of agony as something exploded from within its chest cavity.
    NOT the other.
    And thats the frustrating thing about Ridley , he says he doesn't listen to the fans, he likes to ignore and twist their expectations. Only the problem is he doesn't replace those theories and extrapolations with any better ideas , just poorly thought out ones which, OK THEY were unpredictable, but only because they were on the whole ,stupidly unpredictable. Hands up those who guessed before Covenant that David would be the father of the final Xenomorph?
    In retrospect the whole of the space jockey chamber in "Alien" is actually pretty clean and undamaged (apart from the hole in the floor and the jockey) if a little dusty. And of course now we have to guess who, if Dallas and the team HAD actually removed the helmet, is under there. The transmission is garbled and of none human origin but percieved as a warning, presumably for other "Engineers". I kind of doubt its a human, or David but neither does it strike me as likely being an Engineer, unless Ridley twists this again, so that the "Engineers" actually end up saving the human race by wiping out Davids army of Xenomorphs (or what ever else he manages to breed from all those embryo's and colonists).
    Like I said I didn't buy this world as the planet of origin, there must be more colonies given the number of destinations in the Star chamber charts. Perhaps , it is the ultimate "son " of David, the perfected species he finally breeds which , horrified by its origins, destroys David and sacrifices itself by going to die in isolation , like the Frankenstienian monster the story so often hints at. And so the circle is completed.
    Last edited by CutThumb; May 18, 2017 at 3:27 PM.
  4. RPF Premium Member Mr Webber's Avatar
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    May 18, 2017, 6:59 PM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #79

    Bryancd said: View Post
    Would have been nice if Ridley had gotten back to the original host/egg/facehugger/Alien lifecycle depicted in the deleted scenes of A L I E N.
    Just thinking about the embryo facehuggers David regurgitates at the end, now thats my kind of Kinder Surprise, cant remember if they were encased in an early form of egg shell or just some agent used to do the job. If its not an early egg shell then maybe they are the first huggers to follow that cycle. I think that David doesnt need a Queen to produce his eggs or offspring but its something that can be used in the future by SRS. Davids tribute to Shaw maybe. Really need that Blu Ray.
  5. RPF Premium Member jasonw2112's Avatar
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    May 18, 2017, 10:33 PM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #80

    Really disappointed! I thought Ridley Scott would have gave us a little more insight about
    The engineer's (I really wanted some answers!) I mean we get the "perfect organism" Alien at
    the end, but how does it end up on a derlict ship, with eggs, on an other planet! Even if he wanted
    to make a 3rd film to go with this, I don't think it will make the money. I really wanted to like
    this film, and it had a lot of good ideas, but a predictable ending, and too many plot holes, are probably going to
    Kill it. That's just my opinion....and a lot of other people leaving the theater.
  6. RPF Premium Member
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    May 18, 2017, 11:16 PM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #81

    Just got back and this just confirms what I have said all along about Ridley, he lost his mind years ago!
  7. MooCriket's Avatar
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    May 18, 2017, 11:59 PM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #82

    Predictable and boring. Dammit, Ridley. Congratulations, you are now George Lucas...and these are your prequels.
  8. Jedi-72's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 12:04 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #83

    Next step, sell it to Disney and have them remake the first movie.
  9. Rusty85's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 12:37 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #84

    I watched Prometheus the other night with some friends and was flabbergasted at how dumb the characters are in it. Did they improve that with this one at all?
  10. Jedi-72's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 1:01 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #85

    Rusty85 said: View Post
    I watched Prometheus the other night with some friends and was flabbergasted at how dumb the characters are in it. Did they improve that with this one at all?
    Believe it or not, they're actually a lot dumber. The egg scene alone will have you apoplectic. Lol
  11. Treadwell's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 1:59 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #86

    I like it better than Prometheus, but yeah, the stupidity of the characters is an issue in both films.
  12. Ollois's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 4:15 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #87

    Give RidleyScott a break, at least we have an ongoing story and a cinematically beautiful ALIEN film
  13. lovelyandy's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 5:07 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #88

    Apollo said: View Post
    Just got back and this just confirms what I have said all along about Ridley, he lost his mind years ago!
    i tried watching the prometheus Blu ray with directors commentary and it was just ridley scott describing what was on screen like audio for the visually impared, nothing interesting, just an old man waffling.

    - - - Updated - - -

    jasonw2112 said: View Post
    Really disappointed! I thought Ridley Scott would have gave us a little more insight about
    The engineer's (I really wanted some answers!) I mean we get the "perfect organism" Alien at
    the end, but how does it end up on a derlict ship, with eggs, on an other planet! Even if he wanted
    to make a 3rd film to go with this, I don't think it will make the money. I really wanted to like
    this film, and it had a lot of good ideas, but a predictable ending, and too many plot holes, are probably going to
    Kill it. That's just my opinion....and a lot of other people leaving the theater.
    I assume you liked rogue one lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Jedi-72 said: View Post
    Believe it or not, they're actually a lot dumber. The egg scene alone will have you apoplectic. Lol
    i disagree and think the characters are a lot more beleivable in their actions.

    it answered the question we all have of 'WHY WOULD ANYONE PUT THEIR FACE OVER AN ALIEN EGG?'

    and the answer was, because a robot said it was fine. i totally get that. and loved it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Rusty85 said: View Post
    I watched Prometheus the other night with some friends and was flabbergasted at how dumb the characters are in it. Did they improve that with this one at all?
    everyone complained in prometheus that they took their helmets off too quickly. so in this one they dont even have helmets

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ollois said: View Post
    Give RidleyScott a break, at least we have an ongoing story and a cinematically beautiful ALIEN film
    agree, im happy these movies are being made, and they're not bad (i actually really liked covenant). alien ressurection is bad, avp is bad, this movie is good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Mr Webber said: View Post
    Just thinking about the embryo facehuggers David regurgitates at the end, now thats my kind of Kinder Surprise, cant remember if they were encased in an early form of egg shell or just some agent used to do the job. If its not an early egg shell then maybe they are the first huggers to follow that cycle. I think that David doesnt need a Queen to produce his eggs or offspring but its something that can be used in the future by SRS. Davids tribute to Shaw maybe. Really need that Blu Ray.
    yeah i mean, david must have some knowledge of embryo transportation on wayland space ships and has synthesized a little embroycase out of something that fits perfectly in the embryo draw.

    also did David have his own log in details for the covenant, hinting at some larger wayland plan. like all androids have an order A113 to capture alien life, humans expendable.
  14. JiminSTLouis's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 6:37 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #89

    I agree with everything on these four pages of comments. I liked the film but was disappointed the Engineer's motivation for wiping out mankind wasn't answered. It left me with some questions (most of which have been discussed):

    If it took a decade of probing space to find the habitatable planet they were going to colonize, the Covenent mission must have been in the planning stages about the same time the Prometheus was launched. Was the Covenant a Weyland financed mission? This could explain why they went in the same general direction as Prometheus.

    If David engineered the eggs, how does it transition to needing a queen to lay them?

    How did the derelict with an engineer and eggs end up on LV-426?

    When was the big discovery of life all over the galaxy? There must have been one to have a need for Colonial Marines to go on bug hunts, protect dumb ass colonists and have relations with Arcturians.

    And of of course the suspension of disbelief issues:
    Finding a habitable planet and just immediately stomping around without scans, or tests or suits.

    Sticking your face right in a patch of spore releasing pods and poking at it.

    A flying crane platform with a glass control booth capable of descending from orbit, and reachieving orbit from the surface (after the glass has been smashed in two places).

    David having time to kill Walter, chop off his own hand, change clothes, fix his hair to look like Walter's and make it to the flying crane platform with everyone else.

    Are the engineers giants or not? All the bodies made it look like they're not, and they had human sized rooms and steps in their city (David's chamber of horrors and his basement).

    And as always... sticking your face right in an egg pod.

    I guess were too used to Alien films because this one had no suspense or scariness as Alien and Aliens. Just a blood and gore horror film.
  15. TheMechanic's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 6:48 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #90

    Why was the Covenant called the USCSS Covenant? It's obviously not a Commercial Star Ship like the Nostromo. Lazy art department or someone (many someones) didn't do their homework.

    And why couldn't Tennessee fly that drop ship? He was crashing into **** left and right, smashing into the ground and screaming for 5 minutes like the ship was out of control. Why was it out of control, I was scratching my head through that whole scene.
  16. lovelyandy's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 6:53 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #91

    TheMechanic said: View Post
    Why was the Covenant called the USCSS Covenant? It's obviously not a Commercial Star Ship like the Nostromo. Lazy art department or someone (many someones) didn't do their homework.

    And why couldn't Tennessee fly that drop ship? He was crashing into **** left and right, smashing into the ground and screaming for 5 minutes like the ship was out of control. Why was it out of control, I was scratching my head through that whole scene.
    the storm + the crane being out of position unbalanced it. you wouldnt go driving a JCB while someone was wonking the scoop up and down, the same goes for a spaceship.
  17. RPF Premium Member Mr Webber's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 6:54 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #92

    lovelyandy said: View Post
    also did David have his own log in details for the covenant, hinting at some larger wayland plan. like all androids have an order A113 to capture alien life, humans expendable.
    I heard that on one of those youtube things yesterday, dont remember seeing it but that says nothing.

    Lots of unknown stuff going on that must be factored in for the future movies, the worlds biggest industrialist and his daughter are killed on a secret space mission, the ramifacations of this back home would have been massive and an immediate response from the Company would have resulted keeping the ball rolling on acquisitions which is probably what Awakenings will address.
  18. lovelyandy's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 7:01 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #93

    JiminSTLouis said: View Post
    I agree with everything on these four pages of comments. I liked the film but was disappointed the Engineer's motivation for wiping out mankind wasn't answered. It left me with some questions (most of which have been discussed):

    If it took a decade of probing space to find the habitatable planet they were going to colonize, the Covenent mission must have been in the planning stages about the same time the Prometheus was launched. Was the Covenant a Weyland financed mission? This could explain why they went in the same general direction as Prometheus.

    **Agreed

    If David engineered the eggs, how does it transition to needing a queen to lay them?

    *Everything involved with black goo is highly mutable. Plus maybe David used parts of Sways reproductive tissue to mutate into eggs, then maybe a queen.

    How did the derelict with an engineer and eggs end up on LV-426?

    *Didnt have to be answered in this movie.

    When was the big discovery of life all over the galaxy? There must have been one to have a need for Colonial Marines to go on bug hunts, protect dumb ass colonists and have relations with Arcturians.

    *Yeah the marines are a bit of a wild card in the universe, proving there's a need for an army in space + at least one confirmed alien species. how come when whats his face said 'this is wheat' noone said 'maybe octurians planted it'

    And of of course the suspension of disbelief issues:
    Finding a habitable planet and just immediately stomping around without scans, or tests or suits.

    *they were wearing caps, so protected against light drizzle.

    Sticking your face right in a patch of spore releasing pods and poking at it.

    *i actually love the rational in this movie, a robot, who you've got to beleive is programmed to not harm humans, said 'it's fine, have a peek'


    A flying crane platform with a glass control booth capable of descending from orbit, and reachieving orbit from the surface (after the glass has been smashed in two places).

    *space glass.

    David having time to kill Walter, chop off his own hand, change clothes, fix his hair to look like Walter's and make it to the flying crane platform with everyone else.

    *agreed

    Are the engineers giants or not? All the bodies made it look like they're not, and they had human sized rooms and steps in their city (David's chamber of horrors and his basement).

    *agreed. plus the 'Crossing' prologue, shaw fits snugly in an engineer sleep pod, you'd expect her to be tiny in it.

    And as always... sticking your face right in an egg pod.

    *david said it was fine!

    I guess were too used to Alien films because this one had no suspense or scariness as Alien and Aliens. Just a blood and gore horror film.
    I've added my comments withing the quote
  19. RPF Premium Member cratercritter's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 8:34 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #94

    Why are some people so frustrated about not having all the answers or need to have everything explained. Sometimes it is a good thing. The mystery and the unknown is what makes some sci-fi movies great. Example....ALIEN 1979 had mystery surrounding the derelict ship & space jockey......was intriguing and adds to the movie's scariness and lingering appeal.

    ....Nevertheless, I do understand that now the 'cat has been let out of the bag', with these prequels, we now have a desire to have events that lead up to the ALIEN movie, making sense....hmmm.
    Last edited by cratercritter; May 19, 2017 at 8:41 AM.
  20. JiminSTLouis's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 8:40 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #95

    cratercritter said: View Post
    Why are some people so frustrated about not having all the answers or need to have everything explained. Sometimes it is a good thing. The mystery and the unknown is what makes some sci-fi movies great. Example....ALIEN 1979 had mystery surrounding the derelict ship & space jockey......was intriguing and adds to the movie's scariness and lingering appeal.
    No frustration, just observations.
  21. Valar Morghulis RPF Premium Member kristen jones's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 10:42 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #96

    JiminSTLouis said: View Post

    If David engineered the eggs, how does it transition to needing a queen to lay them?
    Speculation on my part, but David made a point of highlighting the fact that the orignal pathogen had the capability of infinite variations. He demonstrated several different subsequent forms, nd we saw in the film both the white Neomorphs and the Black Big Chaps. So perhaps further mutation going forward eventually leads to the Queen, or David is still working on a way to make that eventuality come about as his tribute to Shaw (whom he claimed to have loved)

    JiminSTLouis said: View Post
    How did the derelict with an engineer and eggs end up on LV-426?
    Again, speculation...

    We saw David return to the engineers' planet with *his* derelict, and that one crash landed. But is that the ONLY engineer ship out there? Perhaps another returns to the homeworld and finds it barren except for the eggs that David had made and decides to take them?


    JiminSTLouis said: View Post
    And of of course the suspension of disbelief issues:
    Finding a habitable planet and just immediately stomping around without scans, or tests or suits.
    Well, Daniels DId say they should follow those protocols...she was overruled by the Captain.

    Also, in Alien, Ripley wanted to do the same, and Dallas overrode her at one point. Probably the only reason they wore suits on LV-426 was because their scans showed the atmosphere wasn't right to go out without them.

    Since the scans from the Covenant showed it as perfectly habitable I suppose everyone was a little more inclined to trust. It's not *that* stupid. We think it is--because we know what is going to happen. but if you're on a deep space mission with a bunch of other highly trained people and your data tells you it's safe, and your captain tells you it's safe, you'll prolly believe it's safe. At least MOST of us would. The ones who wouldn't have their voice represented in Daniels.

    JiminSTLouis said: View Post
    Sticking your face right in a patch of spore releasing pods and poking at it.
    Perhaps he was put more at ease by having found wheat growing? I suppose the world didn't seem so alien and hostile once he found grass, water, mountains, clean air and wheat?

    Again, not EVERYONE on an expedition is the most cautious. And if they were, we wouldn't have a movie.

    JiminSTLouis said: View Post
    David having time to kill Walter, chop off his own hand, change clothes, fix his hair to look like Walter's and make it to the flying crane platform with everyone else.
    DID he kill Walter? We didn't see that.

    I don't know that he changed clothes...could have just incapacitated Walter again and taken his...put them on over his. It doesn't take that long. In Theatre we have to do wardrobe changes between scenes all of the time. One can dress pretty fast when one has to.

    Chopping off his own hand would take literally seconds. C'mon.

    His hair was already short and looked basically like Walter's. At least close enough that nobody was going to notice that tiny detail when they were trying to escape. I'm sure he had plenty of time to tweak and perfect it once on board the Covenant.



    JiminSTLouis said: View Post
    And as always... sticking your face right in an egg pod.
    Kane did it. Just sayin'

    JiminSTLouis said: View Post
    I guess were too used to Alien films because this one had no suspense or scariness as Alien and Aliens. Just a blood and gore horror film.
    I think some of the "predictability" everyone keeps whining about is a mixture of the call backs from other Alien movies (which are put there as a sort of shorthand to convey a feeling without spelling it all out---better known as a trope) and the fact that we have all seen HUNDREDS of films. The fact that we can predict some things in a movie about things we've seen several times already isn't a critique of the writing...it's a symptom of over exposure to the genre.

    Self inflicted, i might add.
  22. Valar Morghulis RPF Premium Member kristen jones's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 10:49 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #97

    TheMechanic said: View Post
    Why was the Covenant called the USCSS Covenant? It's obviously not a Commercial Star Ship like the Nostromo. Lazy art department or someone (many someones) didn't do their homework.

    And why couldn't Tennessee fly that drop ship? He was crashing into **** left and right, smashing into the ground and screaming for 5 minutes like the ship was out of control. Why was it out of control, I was scratching my head through that whole scene.
    How do we KNOW it isn't a Commercial Star Ship? It doesn't look like Nostromo, that's true. But then the Nostromo was a towing vehicle. this is a colony ship.

    What does the term "Commercial" actually mean? Doesn't it mean "for hire" or "operated by a company" instead of "private"? How do we know Covenant was not also funded and launched by Weyland? I would bet it was...it has one of their androids on board, for example. Also the space suits had 'Weyland Yutani" logos on their backs, and the crew members who were pilots had wings on their uniforms identical to those used on the Commercial Star Ship Notstromo... si I'd be willing to bet it's properly a USCSS.

    Tennessee said something about not being qualified or trained to operate it before he left.

    It was out of control because he deployed the crane while in flight...throwing it off balance. He warned Daniels about that when she asked him to do it, and she told him to do it anyway.
    Last edited by kristen jones; May 19, 2017 at 11:35 AM.
  23. RPF Premium Member cratercritter's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 10:51 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #98

    ......"Dumb ass colonists..."
  24. sztriki's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 11:13 AM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #99

    lovelyandy said: View Post
    I assume you liked rogue one lol.
    This.

    Before I went to watch Covenant I rewatched R1 with a mate and just couldn't help drawing comparisons with R1 and Prometheus. One of the reasons why I really enjoy Prometheus because that movie does stand on its own feet, it really can be seen as a standalone Lovecraftian space horror. Even if you've never seen Alien you'd get it. R1 relied 80% on the old stuff and it was so derivative of the original trilogy that you would have no idea what was going on without seeing those. Which is why I was hoping that there would never be a sequel to Prometheus, just leave it as an open-ended one-off film.
    Now, in my head the in Alien it is still an ancient skeleton on the planet and not a space-suit, simply because I like it better like that but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy Prometheus. Covenant was similar, for me it wasn't that much about the alien and that's why I didn't mind the backstory about David's creation. If it was another monster it would have worked the same.
    My initial thoughts after leaving the cinema were that the trailer was very misleading, because it looked like a complete rehash/soft reboot/quasi remake, but the focal point is in a completely different place. I reckon they edited the trailer so that everyone who was complaining that Prometheus was not enough Alien would understand that there are actually aliens in this movie.
    I view these two movies as standalones, very Lovecraft-esque horrors and it really doesn't change my view or way of thinking about the original 2 movies. Similarly I don't think of baby Anakin hugging 3PO when I watch the carbon-freeze scene in Empire.
  25. TheMechanic's Avatar
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    May 19, 2017, 12:14 PM - Re: Alien: Covenant (Post-release) #100

    But the ship was out of control as he was landing it. Before he even touched down he was yelling 'I don't know how long I can hold it!'. The crane hadn't been deployed yet. Maybe I need to watch it again but that whole scene didn't make sense to me.

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