From a review of the novelization:
Alien: Covenant (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
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kristen jones
Master Member
While that *is* true, they had lost contact with the colony, and had no idea why.
When they arrived, there was nobody about. They technically had no way of knowing why this was. It could have at least been speculated that there was some sort of environmental or chemical accident which caused this. maybe not... but the point is they didn't *know* when they touched down. Yet they still charged out without suits.
Why? Well we either have to assume that it's because of what you said--that they figured it was fine because humans had been living there--or it was because they checked or ran a scan and it came back fine. Either way, they guessed...they made an assumption based on the available data. That's the same thing the crew of the Covenant did.
Galactican
Sr Member
IMO the most illogical fact in "Aliens" is that absolutely no-one has ever noticed the Derelict spaceship and its cargo during the 20 years of colonisation. It was not buried under tons of debri, it was simply sitting there for everyone to see. (They needed only a few hours in "Alien" to find the crash site and investigate.) And then, right when Ripley gets "resurrected", contact is lost and all colonists are attacked in a flash. 
Kit Rae
Sr Member
The marines had absolutely no idea what happened to the colonists. There would have been a whole list of things to test for that would have been protocol before sending a crew in with guns blazing - radiation exposure from a leak in their nuclear reactor (which would require wearing protective gear), chemical leaks from the atmosphere processing facility (which would require wearing protective gear), a pathogen that could have infected the colonists (which would require wearing protective gear), this dangerous organism or the alien ship Ripley told them was there, et cetera.
What we actually got was around 10 minutes of grunts locking and loading, acting tough, and then charging into the colony wearing no protective suits. There was absolutely nothing in the movie indicating they checked for anything whatsoever beforehand.
I like Aliens, by the way. Just some perspective for the "..but, they weren't wearing space suits" crowd.
What we actually got was around 10 minutes of grunts locking and loading, acting tough, and then charging into the colony wearing no protective suits. There was absolutely nothing in the movie indicating they checked for anything whatsoever beforehand.
I like Aliens, by the way. Just some perspective for the "..but, they weren't wearing space suits" crowd.
kristen jones
Master Member
Thanks for this.
This should at least show that it wasn't "hack writing". The fact that some weren't willing to fill these gaps in for themselves instead of having it spoon fed to them doesn't impugn the screenwriter's work.
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Kit Rae
Sr Member
The novel also has a slightly different ending. When Daniels is being put in cryo sleep by Walter, she does not ask him if he will help build the cabin with her. It's just a very nice scene with her and Walter, then she goes to sleep peacefully. There is no indication at all prior to this that he is not Walter, and he has much more affection for her than he does at the end of the film. It is basically exactly how he puts Shaw to sleep in the Crossing prologue.
Then Walter goes to the embryo drawer and opens it to look at them, as he does earlier in the story. Among the Embryos are a few that are not human, but alien. It is only now that the reader is clued in that this is in fact David, not Walter. It plays as if it is a true twist ending. Then he walks down a corridor looking at all his future tests subjects in cryo, as in the movie.
In the movie I'm not sure if they intended the David reveal to be a twist ending for the audience or not, as it seemed clear as soon as David appeared in Walter's clothing after the Walter/David fight, that it was really Walter. I think the book ending, which I assume was the original scripted ending, would have been more effective.
Then Walter goes to the embryo drawer and opens it to look at them, as he does earlier in the story. Among the Embryos are a few that are not human, but alien. It is only now that the reader is clued in that this is in fact David, not Walter. It plays as if it is a true twist ending. Then he walks down a corridor looking at all his future tests subjects in cryo, as in the movie.
In the movie I'm not sure if they intended the David reveal to be a twist ending for the audience or not, as it seemed clear as soon as David appeared in Walter's clothing after the Walter/David fight, that it was really Walter. I think the book ending, which I assume was the original scripted ending, would have been more effective.
You know the real reason they don't wear helmets?
Because it would ruin the movie from a technical/dramatic standpoint. You would have no idea who was whom from one moment to another - visual story telling grinds to a halt.
It's a well-known problem in war movies for the director to differentiate already sketchily developed characters when everyone is wearing helmets, increasing the inevitable 'anonymous grunt factor' Those, dumb, inpractical lights in sci-fi space helmets - not there for the character to see the end of his nose!
An interesting fact is that no-one removes their helmets in Damon Lindeloff's Prometheus screenplay. That would have been a call most likeley from Ridley, who had an ensemble cast to direct, unlike the spacesuit scenes in Alien, or other helmet-heavy movies like 2001 or Gravity. That's not even taking into account the comfort of the actors - Skerrit was nearly poisoned by excess CO2. Even the high-tech Prometheus goldfish bowls had problems steaming up,
As for the scanning for toxins and sending David out first - there's this dramatic factor in movie writing called pacing :lol For anyone who has watched the Director's Cut of Alien, the discovery of the Alien lair with the Dallas and Brett cocoons throws the dramatic tension of the end of the movie all to hell. It doesn't work at all, which is why it was cut in the first place. Ditto the whole discovery of Hadley's Hope in the Aliens DC, which destroys all the dramatic tension of the marines arriving at LV-426.
Covenant has its issues for sure, but you really need to look more at movie making structural conventions before shouting bad writing.
Because it would ruin the movie from a technical/dramatic standpoint. You would have no idea who was whom from one moment to another - visual story telling grinds to a halt.
It's a well-known problem in war movies for the director to differentiate already sketchily developed characters when everyone is wearing helmets, increasing the inevitable 'anonymous grunt factor' Those, dumb, inpractical lights in sci-fi space helmets - not there for the character to see the end of his nose!
An interesting fact is that no-one removes their helmets in Damon Lindeloff's Prometheus screenplay. That would have been a call most likeley from Ridley, who had an ensemble cast to direct, unlike the spacesuit scenes in Alien, or other helmet-heavy movies like 2001 or Gravity. That's not even taking into account the comfort of the actors - Skerrit was nearly poisoned by excess CO2. Even the high-tech Prometheus goldfish bowls had problems steaming up,
As for the scanning for toxins and sending David out first - there's this dramatic factor in movie writing called pacing :lol For anyone who has watched the Director's Cut of Alien, the discovery of the Alien lair with the Dallas and Brett cocoons throws the dramatic tension of the end of the movie all to hell. It doesn't work at all, which is why it was cut in the first place. Ditto the whole discovery of Hadley's Hope in the Aliens DC, which destroys all the dramatic tension of the marines arriving at LV-426.
Covenant has its issues for sure, but you really need to look more at movie making structural conventions before shouting bad writing.
Snikt
Sr Member
Posts like this are an inspiration for an "obnoxious/troll" button. Did you write the script? Why are you so defensive? Obviously I wasnt the only one that thought it was dumb. Box office dollars arent exactly pouring in to this movie, and majority of reviews are going along the lines of what we said, it wasnt well written. Beautiful movie, but the writing is sub par. If you like it, great, good for you, Im jealous. I even said I enjoyed the film but it should have been better, and I was expecting more. Like I said in other threads, I shouldnt have to read the book before I see the movie, it should be self contained. See! The person that wrote the book obviously thought it was important to put that in there. Then the spore **** would have STILL happened and then what? "Oops. I guess I was wrong" - Walter.
lolAnd kristen jones That wasnt in the movie. We are talking about the movie here. Thanks for the condescending "spoon fed" comment. Im sorry that I expect more out of movies that are trying to be smart but fail miserably. :thumbsup
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Jedi-72
Sr Member
This entire movie was an insult. It assumed a level of stupidity in the viewer that THANKFULLY, even they seem to have over-estimated as even the lemmings who will usually lap up anything are staying away from this one. It lightens one's soul.
I'll say it again, Prometheus had grand ideas. It was shooting for "thinking man's" sci-fi, but never quite got there. GREAT ideas, though. THIS movie threw all of that out and devolved into Friday the 13th in space, or The Cabin in the Woods. People can like it, but shouldn't try to pretend it's anything other than what it is. This is not a "smart" movie. Prometheus was Citizen Kane by comparison. It's like comparing Megan Traynor to Led Zeppelin or The Beatles.
I'll say it again, Prometheus had grand ideas. It was shooting for "thinking man's" sci-fi, but never quite got there. GREAT ideas, though. THIS movie threw all of that out and devolved into Friday the 13th in space, or The Cabin in the Woods. People can like it, but shouldn't try to pretend it's anything other than what it is. This is not a "smart" movie. Prometheus was Citizen Kane by comparison. It's like comparing Megan Traynor to Led Zeppelin or The Beatles.
That is what the ignore button is for.
With that being said I have never used it as it is always fun to watch a person trying to make a point while clearly missing it! :lol
With that being said I have never used it as it is always fun to watch a person trying to make a point while clearly missing it! :lol
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Kit Rae
Sr Member
Oh, I loved the ending we got, I just thought it may have been more interesting with a real twist ending, where the switch between David and Walter was an actual surprise.
I still don't think it was a poorly written film. I think the script and dialogue was good, the actors were good, the pacing wasn't the best. My issue again is with the story choices made post Prometheus and pre-ALIEN. Thats what I struggled with the most, he made both those films less then what they were somehow. The ending does give me a glimmer of hope he can do something wild with it for the next film though.
kristen jones
Master Member
Posts like this are an inspiration for an "obnoxious/troll" button. Did you write the script? Why are you so defensive? Obviously I wasnt the only one that thought it was dumb. Box office dollars arent exactly pouring in to this movie, and majority of reviews are going along the lines of what we said, it wasnt well written. Beautiful movie, but the writing is sub par. If you like it, great, good for you, Im jealous. I even said I enjoyed the film but it should have been better, and I was expecting more. Like I said in other threads, I shouldnt have to read the book before I see the movie, it should be self contained. See! The person that wrote the book obviously thought it was important to put that in there. Then the spore **** would have STILL happened and then what? "Oops. I guess I was wrong" - Walter.
And @kristen jones That wasnt in the movie. We are talking about the movie here. Thanks for the condescending "spoon fed" comment. Im sorry that I expect more out of movies that are trying to be smart but fail miserably. :thumbsup
Yeah..... Ok. I'm a "troll". GOTCHA.
Yet the post that appears directly above yours here says essentially the same thing as I have, and they don't get called a troll?
Who is the one being defensive again? Your entire post here seems like a whole lotta defensive to me.
Snikt
Sr Member
@Bryancd His post wasnt condescending or rude at all. He was making a statement about his opinion. And while mine is different than his, I still respect it because he wasnt trying to be rude about it. He disagreed, and stated why. Thats it. No overtones, no snide or snarky comments.
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Yeah, and I would do that, but it still shows that they commented anyway, I wish it purged them from existence so you had no idea they were still around. :lol
kristen jones
Master Member
No.... the comment I'm referring to was from Birdie...directly above the one where you decided to call me a troll. Which--by the way--seems pretty rude in and of itself.
All the "snark" seems to be coming from your side. I've made my points, and I stand by them. it's you who continues the name calling and can't seem to accept that I don't agree with you.
Look, man.. I don't expect you to change your mind. I won't change my own, either. I was not the one getting defensive or resulting to calling someone a troll.. that was YOU.
How about we just agree to stop commenting back and forth to each other about this particular thing and move on?
kristen jones
Master Member
Now THIS I agree with.
....and on that note what time is it?
It's Apollo's weekend Box office report! :lol
Seriously Number 6 this Friday AND beaten out by a film called, Captain Underpants The First Epic Movie" as well as "Baywatch"?
Looks like the Public has spoken and it is at times like this I think of this Classic quote by one of our Great Presidents.
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you can not fool all the people all the time"
Hopefully this will be pulled by next weekend to save any further embarrasment... :unsure
It's Apollo's weekend Box office report! :lol
Seriously Number 6 this Friday AND beaten out by a film called, Captain Underpants The First Epic Movie" as well as "Baywatch"?
Looks like the Public has spoken and it is at times like this I think of this Classic quote by one of our Great Presidents.
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you can not fool all the people all the time"
Hopefully this will be pulled by next weekend to save any further embarrasment... :unsure
Snikt
Sr Member
Birdies post had one snarky line. To be honest I didnt even see it the first go around.
Youre kidding me right? A few of us posted that the writing was bad, hack writing, bad writing whatever, and then you jumped down everyones throat about it. Making condescending comments, "spoon fed" stuff like that.
Sure fine with me.
