Alien: Covenant (Post-release)

Jedi-72 · May 31, 2017

kristen jones said:
"Bad Writing"

"Hack Writing"

Ok you scripting geniuses... maybe you can tell me how--if we do it your way and have the crew do the uber smart thing and protect themselves with enviro suits--we can then still have them become infected with the spores which ultimately lead to the creatures that we get to see ripping everyone apart?

Put another way, if we do it your "non-hack" "non-bad" writing way, we have no story.

Despite the fact this has been pointed out again and again, I guess it's more fashionable to just call something "bad writing", or call someone who does something that you don't do for a living a "hack" and ignore the fact that it's a plot device designed to facilitate the story we're telling.

Moo Cricket just did it out of the blue with something that is believable and not insultingly stupid. Putting on a suit is not "uber-smart". It's common sense. Omitting something so basic that can still allow for the story to be told without having to change anything else is insulting to the viewer and illustrative that the writers think so little of the audience that they believe they would accept this as plausible. You're literally paying to be insulted. With the resources and talent that they have access to, the audience is right to not just expect, but demand better. They had a budget for Kobe steak in a 5 star restaurant. What they produced with that budget were left-over white castle sliders. There is no excuse, and it would seem that the audience has largely agreed given its dismal performance.

Kit Rae · May 31, 2017

It was mentioned in Covenant that they screened the atmosphere and it was safe. Do we really need more screen time wasted on the obvious? Ridley has already done this type of thing in the first Alien movie 40 years ago. We get it. We don't need it repeated in every one. We know the crew had to go to the bathroom as well, but it is not necessary to waste screen time with that either.

I would rather they spend more screen time on the story of David and not the obvious sci-fi tropes. If you want more detail about the atmospheric protocols and all the testing they did, and why they thought EVAC suits were not necessary, read the novel. It's packed full of it.

Bryancd · May 31, 2017

I would imagine that screen time in a film is a precious commodity and every second needs to serve the story and he director is telling. So if Ridley wants the flute scene between David and Walter then he drops any effort to show his landing team in environmental suits which leads to other staging and logistical issues for what he films and his production. That's all there is to it.

Mr Webber · May 31, 2017

Maybe they should just put a transporter room in the Awakening, problem solved.

Bryancd · May 31, 2017

MooCriket said:
Would it really take a writing genius to come up with them wearing their protective suits, and having one malfunction? How easy would it have been to have random crewman number one's oxygen level go down from being hit by a falling branch walking through the forrest, or falling down a hill and damaging his suit allowing a point of entry for the virus? The script writing on this film was downright insulting. I get the suspension of disbelief and turn off your brain jive that everyone always argues on these so called works of art/ great films (lol)....but come on! Maybe, just maybe we all expected just a little bit better from Ridley?

Case in point, this could be 5-10min of screen time for an issue that does nothing for the story. I may have expected more from Ridley but that has zero to do with this suit nonesense.

Jeyl · May 31, 2017

kristen jones said:
Put another way, if we do it your "non-hack" "non-bad" writing way, we have no story.

Why is it that every time someone makes an argument regarding why a particular problem should be fixed, the immediate reaction is always "Than there would be no story"? That's that kind of answer a bad/hack writer would come up with because it's so closed minded. Why can't we just, I don't know, 'brainstorm' ideas on how we could get our characters to act smart while still being put in danger?

Bryancd · May 31, 2017

This film suffers not from a lack of creativity or effort or bad writing, the issues relate to the choices Ridley made.

Snikt · May 31, 2017

Bryancd said:
This film suffers not from a lack of creativity or effort or bad writing, the issues relate to the choices Ridley made.

...but Ridley was working with the script. Like others have mentioned, he is only as good as his script lets him. And man. This script needed some work. And Moo was just stating ONE of a ton of reasons as to put a suit on. An explanation, or showing someone fall etc would not take 10 minutes. Ill tell you what, I would have rather have wasted the time on explaining the suits then watching the stupid shower scene. Or the half assed Alien POV shots.Or David telling Walter he will do the fingering...:facepalm Hell, Kane had his suit on and the damn facehugger in Alien STILL got him. Yet these clowns can walk around with nothing, and have the guy literally shove his face into some spores. It baffles me that this is ok to some.

Actually Bryan I think you nailed it, it suffers from all of those things. :lol Except you forgot Ridleys inflated ego.

Bryancd · May 31, 2017

Snikt said:
...but Ridley was working with the script. Like others have mentioned, he is only as good as his script lets him. And man. This script needed some work. And Moo was just stating ONE of a ton of reasons as to put a suit on. An explanation, or showing someone fall etc would not take 10 minutes. Ill tell you what, I would have rather have wasted the time on explaining the suits then watching the stupid shower scene. Or the half assed Alien POV shots.Or David telling Walter he will do the fingering...:facepalm Hell, Kane had his suit on and the damn facehugger in Alien STILL got him. Yet these clowns can walk around with nothing, and have the guy literally shove his face into some spores. It baffles me that this is ok to some.

Actually Bryan I think you nailed it, it suffers from all of those things. :lol Except you forgot Ridleys inflated ego.

Again, all of those decisions are choices. They may have scripted a scene where the crew would put on suits but Ridley instead used :05 of dialogue to make it a moot point. Again, all the issues you raise are valid but they aren't the result of a talentless hack they are mistakes in the creative choices he made.

Kit Rae · May 31, 2017

Mr Webber said:
Maybe they should just put a transporter room in the Awakening, problem solved.

Yeah, they can just beam down on a planet like Trek almost always did - with no environment suits, no spare oxygen, no checking if the atmosphere is breathable, or if it has harmful pathogens, nothing. Or just assume they already checked for all of this before sending the away team down, and not waste screen time on the obvious

Mr Webber · May 31, 2017

Kit Rae said:
Yeah, they can just beam down on a planet like Trek almost always did - with no environment suits, no spare oxygen, no checking if the atmosphere is breathable, or if it has harmful pathogens, nothing. Or just assume they already checked for all of this before sending the away team down, and not waste screen time on the obvious

Snikt · May 31, 2017

Bryancd said:
Again, all of those decisions are choices. They may have scripted a scene where the crew would put on suits but Ridley instead used :05 of dialogue to make it a moot point. Again, all the issues you raise are valid but they aren't the result of a talentless hack they are mistakes in the creative choices he made.

Fine. But Ridley making those choices doesnt make it ok. Someone was responsible, and the audience has to deal with it.
Kit Rae Im not familiar with Star Trek, well, not enough to argue your point at least. I do recall in one of the movies about being impossible to beam on to something moving and then they totally do it. But then you used the ****** smiley so I think youre trying to be a smart ass? Also, if they came up with something different/smarter, we wouldnt even be having this conversation. Just because the air is breathable doesnt mean there isnt pathogens in the air. Hence the guy getting infected.... I guess I just expected more from this movie I guess. The idea of wasted screen time in this movie is funny to me. :lol

Mr Webber · May 31, 2017

The transporter is purely a metaphor.

In the opening minute of Covenant after the David/Weyland meeting we are introduced to a variety of impossible things. Insane engineering, interstellar travel, successful stasis of the human body for prolonged periods and artificial human beings. In the first minute. None were explained nor had to be.

Jedi-72 · May 31, 2017

Bryancd said:
I would imagine that screen time in a film is a precious commodity and every second needs to serve the story and he director is telling. So if Ridley wants the flute scene between David and Walter then he drops any effort to show his landing team in environmental suits which leads to other staging and logistical issues for what he films and his production. That's all there is to it.

Did it take 10 mins of screen time in Alien? No. Next thing you know, they're suited up and trekking out the way space explorers would. It's one among myriad poor choices made in making this movie. I'm all for suspension of disbelief within reason. But, this movie requires leaving your brain in the car, which should not be the case with a movie like this.

Bryancd · May 31, 2017

Jedi-72 said:
Did it take 10 mins of screen time in Alien? No. Next thing you know, they're suited up and trekking out the way space explorers would. It's one among myriad poor choices made in making this movie. I'm all for suspension of disbelief within reason. But, this movie requires leaving your brain in the car, which should not be the case with a movie like this.

Yes but the suspension in ALIEN was predicated on establishing LV-426 being a hostile environment where the tension begins to build. The point of the Covenant planet was that it was safe despite Waterson's complaints but then it goes bad. In ALIEN it was a planet they didn't want to go to, in Covenant it was potentially their home.

Jodo · May 31, 2017

kristen jones said:
"Bad Writing"

"Hack Writing"

Ok you scripting geniuses... maybe you can tell me how--if we do it your way and have the crew do the uber smart thing and protect themselves with enviro suits--we can then still have them become infected with the spores which ultimately lead to the creatures that we get to see ripping everyone apart?

Put another way, if we do it your "non-hack" "non-bad" writing way, we have no story.

Despite the fact this has been pointed out again and again, I guess it's more fashionable to just call something "bad writing", or call someone who does something that you don't do for a living a "hack" and ignore the fact that it's a plot device designed to facilitate the story we're telling.

As someone who has written scripts in the past, and with the above comments which offered easily imagined alternatives...This post embarrasses me.

Apollo · May 31, 2017

Paul certainly would have gotten a LOT of mileage out of that post! :lol

God I miss that Man! l

Jodo said:
As someone who has written scripts in the past, and with the above comments which offered easily imagined alternatives...This post embarrasses me.

lovelyandy · Jun 1, 2017

you're applying the rules of our world to a futuristic spacefaring human race with robots, med pods, holograms and mars colonisation. why?

Jedi-72 said:
It still makes zero sense. We live in a world where I see people walking the streets every day with surgical masks on for fear of God knows what, and people who lapse into fits of rage and want to jump into a positive pressure suit if they're exposed to second hand smoke. But, a group of supposedly smart interstellar explorers will set foot on a new world sans minimum protection. Nope. Virtually every review has been pissed by the stupidity of that, particularly because it was a sore point in Prometheus. Scanning the surface is great. Good. No overt threats. You would STILL wear a protective suit for the same reason they have weapons...just in case.

lovelyandy · Jun 1, 2017

maybe not everyone is blessed with your lack of curiosity.

if a scan says its fine and you see an alien flower, meh, just ignore it.

Snikt said:
If you go to a restaurant and you get a steak and you order it medium rare, and they give it to you well done, what would you do? You would send it back, or eat it and not be happy. Except in this we dont have a choice but to eat what we dont want. And yes, youre right, Im not a screenwriter, but I think they could come up with some other way to circumvent the suits in a way that isnt dumb. The aliens have acid blood for gods sakes, why couldnt the spores burn through his shoe/suit when he stepped on it? Something. Anything was better than the guy shoving his face into a spore on an uncharted planet. Would you go grab some poison ivy and rub it all over yourself? Of course you wouldnt. Im not saying to not have things happen to the crew members, but dont make it so its ridiculously improbable. Why is that so hard to understand?

If its not bad writing, whats the damn explanation? Lazy writing? Youre splitting hairs here. Being ridiculously stupid shouldnt be a plot device.

lovelyandy · Jun 1, 2017

you know the responses to this are going to be 'but they should have put suits on anyway'

Kit Rae said:
It was mentioned in Covenant that they screened the atmosphere and it was safe. Do we really need more screen time wasted on the obvious? Ridley has already done this type of thing in the first Alien movie 40 years ago. We get it. We don't need it repeated in every one. We know the crew had to go to the bathroom as well, but it is not necessary to waste screen time with that either.

I would rather they spend more screen time on the story of David and not the obvious sci-fi tropes. If you want more detail about the atmospheric protocols and all the testing they did, and why they thought EVAC suits were not necessary, read the novel. It's packed full of it.

- - - Updated - - -

yeah but remember all those scenes in star wars, star trek etc etc etc where they tediously scan and double check and wear space suits and.......... oh no wait.

Bryancd said:
Case in point, this could be 5-10min of screen time for an issue that does nothing for the story. I may have expected more from Ridley but that has zero to do with this suit nonesense.

- - - Updated - - -

PLOT HOLE! It isnt explicitly explained how andriods work or how artificial inteligence was created!!!1!

Mr Webber said:
The transporter is purely a metaphor.

In the opening minute of Covenant after the David/Weyland meeting we are introduced to a variety of impossible things. Insane engineering, interstellar travel, successful stasis of the human body for prolonged periods and artificial human beings. In the first minute. None were explained nor had to be.

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