Star Wars: Battlefront 2 (DICE)

Going to the map of your choice is a biggie. Granted, it will dilute the available online player pool in multiplayer, meaning you might have to wait until a team fills up, but I'll take it.

It's frustrating when going to 12 player mode and it selects a game style I don't like (I hate you CARGO). And I can't back out of it once it's loading. I have to QUIT THE APPLICATION or wait for the game I don't want to play to finish loading. Only to quit it.

Agreed on upgrades. I am a gazillionaire because I've already bought all the Hutt contracts. Most unfulfilled of course. Nothing left to do with my amassing fortune. Oh, I guess I can buy emotes...and I've already spoken about how much I love THOSE.

Speaking of which, why grant points only to divide it by a fraction and then grant that result as credits? Just make it all about credits or points and skip the "you don't really get this much" step.
 
- SINGLE PLAYER. I can still fire up the original Battlefront 2 and play it if I want. I can do a whole campaign against dumb bots where I play conquest in this or that era. I can play a single map if I want. I don't need other players to do this. Give me that.

I would love some Star Wars story stuff with this graphics engine. I don't usually buy a season pass but I would if they kicked out DLC SP stories with this game!
 
They said they noticed that "everyone plays the same" and that that wasn't their intent. Apparently they'd anticipated more strategic allocation of roles (you be a sniper, I'll be infantry, etc). So that they're baking that in somehow on this one.

The lack of classes and squads (best part of the Battlefield series) was why I didn't buy the first game. When people have a limited choice in a MP game, they're going to go with whatever kills the easiest and fastest. That's what it sounds like happened here too. That's what made the originals and the Battlefield series so fun is that you could specialize at a certain class or be a jack of all trades.
 
Going to the map of your choice is a biggie. Granted, it will dilute the available online player pool in multiplayer, meaning you might have to wait until a team fills up, but I'll take it.

I don't actually think it would. Because I think what ends up happening is that people quit anyway. If I want to spend all day playing nothing but the Bespin Fighter Squadron map, that should be easy for me to do. Let me make my custom playlist, and then just keep shuffling me to those servers that are running it. If that's what I want to do, that's what I'm going to do, and then the only question is how easy the game makes it for me to do that. MAking it hard just leaves me doing it anyway, but being irritated.

It's frustrating when going to 12 player mode and it selects a game style I don't like (I hate you CARGO). And I can't back out of it once it's loading. I have to QUIT THE APPLICATION or wait for the game I don't want to play to finish loading. Only to quit it.

Yeah, see, I like cargo. That's the one where it's basically Team Fortress' cart-pushing mode, right? That said, limiting the DLC to DLC-specific servers was a problem, making a single DLC playlist was a problem, and not letting players quit mid-load was a problem. To be fair, being forced to play this or that game mode did help me come to enjoy them a good bit more, but there are still some game modes (Hero Hunt) that just SUCK and always will.

Agreed on upgrades. I am a gazillionaire because I've already bought all the Hutt contracts. Most unfulfilled of course. Nothing left to do with my amassing fortune. Oh, I guess I can buy emotes...and I've already spoken about how much I love THOSE.

I stopped playing ages ago, but I too have unfulfilled Hutt contracts, because I'm just never gonna get X number of hero defense kills on XYZ map or whatever. It's just not gonna happen. Sadly, I expect DICE will continue doing this. Soem of the Hutt contracts were fine (e.g., you unlock X by just using or getting a minimal number of kills with Y), but some were ridiculous and stupid.

Speaking of which, why grant points only to divide it by a fraction and then grant that result as credits? Just make it all about credits or points and skip the "you don't really get this much" step.

Yeah, I think a single straight track is the better way to go. That or just skip credits altogether. Or only have them apply to cosmetic stuff like uniforms, emotes, etc.

I would love some Star Wars story stuff with this graphics engine. I don't usually buy a season pass but I would if they kicked out DLC SP stories with this game!

I don't even need SP stories. Those tend to get boring after you play them thru once. I don't get into the collectible hunting crap these days, and if there are multiple endings, unless the gameplay itself is different leading up to them, I'll probably just watch a clip on Youtube. Otherwise, I'll play through it, finish it, and delete it from the console's HDD. On the other hand, if I can play against bots on the same maps? That's useful to me. I can practice with this or that item, learn where things are on the map, figure out my own strategies, etc.

The lack of classes and squads (best part of the Battlefield series) was why I didn't buy the first game. When people have a limited choice in a MP game, they're going to go with whatever kills the easiest and fastest. That's what it sounds like happened here too. That's what made the originals and the Battlefield series so fun is that you could specialize at a certain class or be a jack of all trades.

This is part of an extremely common design problem that DICE has had for at least a decade, if not the entirety of the studio's existence: they develop games from the perspective of people who already want to play as a team. That's different from play on a team. Playing as a team means that you are coordinating with others, keeping your roles varied on purpose, coordinating your attacks, etc. Playing on a team means you're just doing your own thing, alongside a bunch of other folks also doing their own thing. You all share a common overarching goal, but you aren't actually working with them to accomplish it.

DICE designs their games based on the notion that people are playing as a team. This applies to class design, map design, etc. A lot of times, a map that seems impossible for a given side to beat is actually pretty well balanced if the people on each side are equally coordinated. In other words, if you're playing "clan v. clan" it's balanced. But if you're playing "disorganized pub pickup team vs. disorganized pub pickup team" then there are often natural advantages that favor one side over the other. Same story with "Oh, we didn't think people would all just use the obviously optimum gear for their personal score; we thought they'd try to help their team win instead."

DICE has never really understood this about the people that play their games: they're essentially playing parallel single player games. They're in it for themselves and their personal scores. Or they're just doing XYZ so they can unlock some other thing or rank up to the next unlock or whathaveyou. They aren't putting the team first. The team is a distant second at best. This has been true in their Battlefield games, too. Moreover, at least in the past, DICE designers had the attitude that if you got locked into your base, then the other team deserved to just keep shooting you as you spawned. It's idiotic and it makes for boring gameplay all around. But they knew about this and were fine with it. That always struck me as deeply stupid and childish.

For example, many times on the Death Star "Escape with the droid" map, the team trying to get the droid would get completely decimated, because everyone would just cluster in the room with it and wait. It's impossible for groups of, like, 2-3 people to clear out that many folks at once, and unless the team all attacks at once, that's what happens. Of course, if you have a coordinated team, then this would be an exciting experience. But if you don't, you're just smashing your head against a wall until the clock runs out.
 
CARGO is you grab their hot potato while they try to grab yours. To me it's just anxiety until the clock runs out. "Push the cart" is Extraction.
 
CARGO is you grab their hot potato while they try to grab yours. To me it's just anxiety until the clock runs out. "Push the cart" is Extraction.

Oh yeah. That mode is ok. I usually just play defense on that. People so rarely play dedicated defense, which lends itself to the sense of anxiety. The one I have the least interest in from the Outer Rim is that "Grab the 3 droids" thing. I mean, I'll play it, because in general I like the Outer Rim maps, but it's my least favorite of those modes.

Really, Outer Rim and Bespin were the best DLC, with Bespin as the clear favorite. Death Star was...eh...ok. Rogue One was about the same. I find their game modes to be a lot less satisfying. Although, again, if I was playing with coordinated teams, they'd be AMAZING.
 
DICE has never really understood this about the people that play their games: they're essentially playing parallel single player games. They're in it for themselves and their personal scores. Or they're just doing XYZ so they can unlock some other thing or rank up to the next unlock or whathaveyou. They aren't putting the team first. The team is a distant second at best. This has been true in their Battlefield games, too. Moreover, at least in the past, DICE designers had the attitude that if you got locked into your base, then the other team deserved to just keep shooting you as you spawned. It's idiotic and it makes for boring gameplay all around. But they knew about this and were fine with it. That always struck me as deeply stupid and childish

That's what made this game rather painful. Not only was it designed to be an online only game, but they designed the scoring and upgrade system to force people into that kind of mentality. Best guy on a losing and non-cooperative team....fine, here's your upgrade. Spawn camping.....here's your stuff. Btw, nice KD percentage.
Make it so that you have to cooperate to achieve the goals or win the battle, and then reward the winning team. Toss out the KD bs to keep the stat nuts from ruining the game.
 
That's what made this game rather painful. Not only was it designed to be an online only game, but they designed the scoring and upgrade system to force people into that kind of mentality. Best guy on a losing and non-cooperative team....fine, here's your upgrade. Spawn camping.....here's your stuff. Btw, nice KD percentage.
Make it so that you have to cooperate to achieve the goals or win the battle, and then reward the winning team. Toss out the KD bs to keep the stat nuts from ruining the game.

They will not, at least any time in the foreseeable future, get rid of personal kill tracking or K/D rates. They won't get rid of stats like that at all, because they know that people love paying attention to them.

DICE understands that you can leverage metagame design choices like unlocks and stat tracking. It's a lot easier to design a system that does those things than it is to design a truly well balanced map, especially a well balanced asymmetrical map. They know that these kinds of hamster-wheel things keep people playing and keep the game "fresh" while also "adding value" to their DLC. And the stat tracking kills the mod scene, too, which means if people want fresh gameplay, all they can do is buy your DLC. DICE knows this and has been doing this for years.

Years ago, my favorite team game was probably Red Orchestra: Ostfront. It was more realistic than most games, for one thing, and although it featured scoring, your personal score was ultimately meaningless. What mattered was whether your team won the round. The game had classes, but usually everyone was a rifleman, with only a few specialists using SMGs, one marksman per team usually, one or two squad leaders, and maybe a couple of engineers (guys with satchel charges). It was such a welcome change from the Battlefield model.

I still enjoy DICE's games overall, but they are undeniably flawed in many instances, and usually in the same ways each time.
 
In general, I'm much more enthused about this game than the last one. I'm still leery of preordering, but on paper it sounds a lot better.

I'm not sure if the deluxe version is worth it though. Anyone have any insight on that?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
In general, I'm much more enthused about this game than the last one. I'm still leery of preordering, but on paper it sounds a lot better.

I'm not sure if the deluxe version is worth it though. Anyone have any insight on that?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I'm really tempted to preorder this one. It looks like so far they learned from their mistakes on the first game.

I still want to see a game like this where you can fight on the ground, jump in a ship, and then go board a ship in space. I'm guessing that would be hard to do, but I have no real idea. How cool would it be if you had a Rebel mission where you have to first capture a shuttle on the ground, then load aboard that to assault an Imperial ship or space station?
 
I'm really tempted to preorder this one. It looks like so far they learned from their mistakes on the first game.

I still want to see a game like this where you can fight on the ground, jump in a ship, and then go board a ship in space. I'm guessing that would be hard to do, but I have no real idea. How cool would it be if you had a Rebel mission where you have to first capture a shuttle on the ground, then load aboard that to assault an Imperial ship or space station?
Acting like it would be hard is an excuse. "Battlefront II" did it way back when. I'm sure EA could figure it out if they wanted to.
 
In general, I'm much more enthused about this game than the last one. I'm still leery of preordering, but on paper it sounds a lot better.

I'm not sure if the deluxe version is worth it though. Anyone have any insight on that?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Yyeeeaaaahhhh....soooo...about that?


I pre-ordered. :$


And so far, after having played for one evening in the multiplayer beta, I'm liking it. It's taking some real getting used to, but I think there's a lot of potential.



For those who don't know, the multiplayer beta (which is open to all pre-orders as of 10/6) has the following maps and modes:

- Galactic Assault on Naboo. (Clone Wars era)
- Starfighter Assault above Fondor (OT era)
- Strike on Takodana. (TFA)

Galactic Assault

Description This is basically the old Walker Assault, although it's more varied now. Objectives are different. For this map, you have to escort the big droid transport tank to the palace, after which you have to attack the palace and gain entrance to the throne room. Design-wise, it's a real change of pace. Not simply doing the same thing in different locations anymore. It's a nice change of pace, too, actually, if the map plays out fully. You get varied locations, varied goals, and different types of combat.

Pros Naboo is gorgeous. I almost never watch the PT, so I forget just how pretty Naboo really is. The varied gameplay is also really appreciated. You start in much more open combat in the streets, then work to closer quarters combat in the palace, where you have to capture zones (I think -- I haven't played that far into the map). When you're in the streets, you need to either protect your transport, or destroy it. Destroying it ends the match. Protecting it moves you to the next phase. In a way, this is like the Scarif DLC, but instead of having the phase where you blow up the ships, and then another map where you escape with/protect the tapes, you have it all in a single map. Nice! The Clone War era stuff is well done, too. Weapons feel appropriate to the classes, visuals and sounds are solid.

Cons Due to how the map spawns are designed, you spend a lot of time running to get into the action, especially as the Droid army. So far, you don't have "partner spawn" so there's no way to instantly spawn ahead. The "Reinforcements" concept -- where you use "battle points" (usable only during combat) to spawn in as a suped-up unit of some kind -- is neat, but in execution, it's a mixed bag so far. For example, the Republic forces can spawn a LAAT gunship (the flying suckers in Attack of the Clones that ferry the troops around). In theory, it's a cool idea. It rides on rails, you operate one of the laser beam turrets, and can shoot at ground troops. In practice, it's useless. It's too hard to see the enemy, the gun doesn't do enough damage, and the "ride on rails" aspect of it makes it that much harder to use. On the Droid side, you can spawn in with their big battle tank. Trouble is, there's an animation sequence, and DICE forgot to make the tank invincible during it. Meaning you sit there in the open, getting shot to pieces, only to spawn in for a few seconds and then die. DICE is aware of this, however, and will hopefully fix it for full release. It seems more like an oversight than a deliberate choice. Sadly, there are no AI troops backing you up, so you lose the sense of scale that BF2 (2005) had.

Starfighter Assault

Description Remember Fighter Squadron? Remember how it was kinda cool, but a bit limited? Well....forget all that. This is way, way different. It's a lot closer to the starfighter attack on the Star Destroyer from Death Star. Only that map looks more like a "proof of concept" design by comparison. Starfighter Assault has the Rebels attacking a space station that is repairing a Star Destroyer over Fondor. They start by having to take out two small Imperial cruisers, akin to Rebel corvettes. After that, they have to blow up shield generators inside the station. After that, they have to attack the Star Destroyer itself...I think. More on that in a bit. You get three basic classes of ship: fighter, bomber, and interceptor. There are also hero ships, but I haven't played as them yet. Interceptors are fast but lightly armored. Bombers are slower, but more heavily armored. Fighters are the midpoint.

Pros Holy crap this is different! I mean, yeah, you're still flying starships and shooting each other, but design-wise it's WAY better than Fighter Squadron was, and way more intense! Much if this is due to the changed flight mechanics. You no longer get to lock on to enemy targets with a pseudo auto-aim that then has to cool down. Instead, you get a slight zoom to do precision aiming. Also, there are no more evasive maneuver buttons, so no pulling a loop anymore. Basic flight controls are different, too: roll is left-right on the left stick, while throttle is up-down on the left stick, and pitch is up-down on the right stick, while yaw is left-right on the right stick. Coming off of BF2015...it's taking some getting used to. Actually, a LOT of getting used to. I'm debating breaking out my Ace Edge HOTAS from Ace Combat 6, and seeing if it works. If it does...I shall rule the skies (maybe)! If not, this will be an up hill battle. You can turn roll off in the options, but you roll faster than you yaw, meaning you're way more nimble if you can use the new system to the fullest extent. They also cleared up the cockpit glass so that you can actually see out of it, and the viewpoint is a little more forward, so it's less of a showcase of the cockpit interior and more of a functional view. That said, you give up all peripheral vision from 3rd person, which is disappointing. I wish they had servers that locked things to first-person only.

Cons So far, after about 5-6 different games, I've yet to see the Rebels win. It's still very early days, though, so this may be down to people not really knowing how to PTFO. The TIE interceptor is in need of some rebalancing. Its guns overheat way too quickly, and a single burst isn't enough to kill another ship. I haven't flown as a TIE fighter or bomber yet, so more on those when I get a chance. On the Rebel side, X-wings seem kinda meh, which is a shame. I think the problem is that the three roles aren't quite distinct enough. I'd try to differentiate them a bit more, so that interceptors are a good bit faster, but more fragile or with less powerful cannons. Bombers would be slower, but much tankier. Their guns would have a good bit more punch, but have an even lower rate of fire, being designed for attacking heavier ships. Fighters, therefore, would have a niche that actually worked for them. I've enjoyed flying the Y-wing, too, but I'm still getting the hang of it. It's so far the better objective-killer. Evading the enemy seems a lot harder now. In and of itself, this isn't a problem, but the way the Rebels lose this mode is by running out of reinforcements rather than running out of time. I'd change that, personally. I far prefer the "You ran out of time" thing.

Strike I dunno. Haven't played it yet.

More later.
 

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