Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Post-release)

Well, it's a mostly horrible film, with a handful of scenes as exceptions.

I don't even know that I would call it horrible. IMO, it's worse than that - it's forgettable. The biggest gripe I had with this movie was the soundtrack - again, forgettable. Williams' scores for the OT are as much a character as any of the actors' roles, and as great as the movies are, they would be shadows of themselves without JW's timeless musical cues.

Yes, there are a handful of great "Star Wars" moments in RO, but naturally they're tied to neat callbacks to the OT characters or OT music - most notably the Rebel fleet coming out of hyperspace over Scarif.
 
Well, it's a mostly horrible film, with a handful of scenes as exceptions. But I will say this about the undeveloped, one-dimensional Jyn. In fighting scenes, Felicity makes a much more credible badass than Daisy does as Rey.

The Wook



You know every time I hear someone say that they're not invested in the characters in Rogue One and this goes for a lot of other movies as well, I always think to myself, "What a pretentious jerk." I just can't help it. It's the sad unadulterated truth. And John Williams ripped off an old film score from a movie called King's Row when he "created" the score for the original Star Wars.
 
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You know every time I hear someone say that they're not invested in the characters in Rogue One and this goes for a lot of other movies as well, I always think to myself, "What a pretentious jerk." I just can't help it. It's the sad unadulterated truth. And John Williams ripped off an old film score from a movie called King's Row when he "created" the score for the original Star Wars.

That's a pretty harsh judgement to make based solely on how someone perceives a piece of entertainment.
I enjoyed R1 but I can't name a single character other than the OT cameos. They all seemed pretty much generic to me. Granted I've only seen it once but it didn't leave me with a strong desire to watch it again.
Pretentious? Moi?! ;)
 
You know every time I hear someone say that they're not invested in the characters in Rogue One and this goes for a lot of other movies as well, I always think to myself, "What a pretentious jerk." I just can't help it. It's the sad unadulterated truth.

You're right. It is sad.

Sounds like you've got some issues.

Perhaps you should seek out some professional help.
 
I listen to Michael Giacchino's Rogue One score in the car pretty often and I love it. It's theme is very moving, Krennic's theme and the Imperial Suite are really cool. My 6 year old daughter is always humming Krennic's theme now. Lol. My coworker who has never seen Rogue One heard some of the score I was playing and said 'Star Wars! Cool!'.
 
I just feel like Cassian should have been the main character, and trying to make it Jyn just ensured it was neither. Plus I feel Jyn was miscast. I don't have a problem with Felicity -- but she just doesn't work as Jyn as well as a few others I can think of would have. That tweaked casting and shift of focus would have "fixed" most of my issues with the film, making it a numbered episode and making it not a TPK would do the rest.

After costume crunch time for an upcoming convention, I really have to sit down and bash out my idealized saga treatment. So much of Rogue One I feel works (my casting complaint notwithstanding), I've already jotted down scene notes for what elements of this film would get moved around where. One thing I don't like about the newer movies (Prequels included) is that in the OT we never saw the flashbacks or visions. I would prefer to keep it that way. Use the young Jyn stuff on Coruscant in that time period, ditto when Krennic found them.

And that's where I land on the scale. I definitely don't hate Rogue One. Neither do I love it. I feel like it's a lot of nice raw material that can be used to make several films that haven't actually been made yet.
 
As much as I enjoy R1, and I enjoy it quite a bit, you can definitely see some disjointed parts. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the extensive rewrites. It still stands as my favorite Disney Wars movie, and I think Gareth Edwards was the right man for the job in terms of giving it the right visual feel. It feel much more like the OT than TFA or TLJ has. It got a lot of things right in my book, but it is not without its shortcomings.
 
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Star Wars has NEVER been about multi-dimensional characters it's a special effects movie series for kids, the good characters/story is just a bonus. Do you think that the boringly perfect no-personality rey in the sequel trilogy is a multi-dimensional character? Hell no she's not. At least Jyn has a character arc. Rogue One is a very, very well done love letter to the original Star Wars movie and the characters in the film grows on the viewer after each viewing. And besides it's not a movie about individuals it's an actual war movie, you're actually supposed to care more about the mission than the individuals and the Vader rampage scene is the best scene with him in it in the whole entire series. The acting by the guys who played the Rebel Fleet Troopers was absolutely phenomenal! You can actually feel their fear coming through the friggin screen! I also find it funny that after 40+ years of Star Wars people are starting to ask asinine questions after Rogue One came out like, "Why didn't Vader just nab the Death Star plans using the force?" or "Why didn't Vader get sucked out into space at the end of Rogue One?" when they could've asked all along of why didn't Vader sniff out the Rebel's hidden fortress in the first 3rd of A New Hope? I just don't understand the hate for Rogue One at all!

So, here's the thing. I think the statement of "But they've always been kids movies!" is kind of a cop-out. I've heard it for years, especially after the Prequels. When someone criticizes the characterization in one of the films, the response is often "Oh whatever. They're just dumb kids movies anyway. Stop taking it so seriously!"

And it's true that Star Wars -- the OT especially -- was a mostly plot-driven tale in the tradition of grand space opera/fantasy. It's not meant to be MacBeth. But that aside, I think it's reasonable to expect characters to be drawn in an interesting way that allows for a compelling performance. And even in a plot-driven piece, your story simply becomes better if it contains well defined characters, ideally with some degree of complexity to them (because that makes them more human and relatable), and if their actions conform to who they are as characters. If that means you write your characters to fit the plot you've envisioned, then fine, do that, but write those characters well.

I just feel like Cassian should have been the main character, and trying to make it Jyn just ensured it was neither. Plus I feel Jyn was miscast. I don't have a problem with Felicity -- but she just doesn't work as Jyn as well as a few others I can think of would have. That tweaked casting and shift of focus would have "fixed" most of my issues with the film, making it a numbered episode and making it not a TPK would do the rest.

After costume crunch time for an upcoming convention, I really have to sit down and bash out my idealized saga treatment. So much of Rogue One I feel works (my casting complaint notwithstanding), I've already jotted down scene notes for what elements of this film would get moved around where. One thing I don't like about the newer movies (Prequels included) is that in the OT we never saw the flashbacks or visions. I would prefer to keep it that way. Use the young Jyn stuff on Coruscant in that time period, ditto when Krennic found them.

And that's where I land on the scale. I definitely don't hate Rogue One. Neither do I love it. I feel like it's a lot of nice raw material that can be used to make several films that haven't actually been made yet.

I've only seen Rogue One once, but I really enjoyed it when I did. (I own it, but haven't gotten round to re-watching it yet.) I think with Rogue One, you're dealing -- by necessity -- with somewhat less defined characters, simply because of the amount of time you have to tell your story, and how that constrains your ability to really dig in to who these people are and what makes them tick. So, instead, I chose to view the film as basically the Star Wars equivalent of The Dirty Dozen, where you get only a little about the characters during the film, with most of the focus on a few specific ones, while the rest are just kind of background material defined by what amounts to a character outline.

And I loved the fact that it was a TPK. I mean, it would've been nice to see maybe a couple survive, but I was perfectly fine with the TPK quality and the high number of casualties. I like that it showed the cost of the war, and that the Rebels didn't always win with a slam-dunk and a happy ending.

And I'm gonna go on record and say that I think it actually has a better space battle than ROTJ.
 
So, here's the thing. I think the statement of "But they've always been kids movies!" is kind of a cop-out. I've heard it for years, especially after the Prequels. When someone criticizes the characterization in one of the films, the response is often "Oh whatever. They're just dumb kids movies anyway. Stop taking it so seriously!"

And it's true that Star Wars -- the OT especially -- was a mostly plot-driven tale in the tradition of grand space opera/fantasy. It's not meant to be MacBeth. But that aside, I think it's reasonable to expect characters to be drawn in an interesting way that allows for a compelling performance. And even in a plot-driven piece, your story simply becomes better if it contains well defined characters, ideally with some degree of complexity to them (because that makes them more human and relatable), and if their actions conform to who they are as characters. If that means you write your characters to fit the plot you've envisioned, then fine, do that, but write those characters well.



I've only seen Rogue One once, but I really enjoyed it when I did. (I own it, but haven't gotten round to re-watching it yet.) I think with Rogue One, you're dealing -- by necessity -- with somewhat less defined characters, simply because of the amount of time you have to tell your story, and how that constrains your ability to really dig in to who these people are and what makes them tick. So, instead, I chose to view the film as basically the Star Wars equivalent of The Dirty Dozen, where you get only a little about the characters during the film, with most of the focus on a few specific ones, while the rest are just kind of background material defined by what amounts to a character outline.

And I loved the fact that it was a TPK. I mean, it would've been nice to see maybe a couple survive, but I was perfectly fine with the TPK quality and the high number of casualties. I like that it showed the cost of the war, and that the Rebels didn't always win with a slam-dunk and a happy ending.

And I'm gonna go on record and say that I think it actually has a better space battle than ROTJ.


This bullcrap about being "invested in the characters" is such a silly and tired cliché. I can't remember when I felt "invested in the characters" of a movie. Hell it's not like they're family members or even friends in your life. Is Rogue One enjoyable? Yep. Do I get tired of looking at or listening to the characters over the course of 2+ hours? Nope. Is it a fun and enjoyable ride? Yep. And lastly does it make the original Star Wars movie better by filling in a plothole and showing the enormity of the Rebellion's sacrifice to get the Death Star plans? Yep. It's just a perfect companion movie to the original classic. And I hope that it burns you up to think that the younger Star Wars crowd will be watching it right before A New Hope! :D
 
Yeah I have "issues" cause I don't think like you do. Get over yourself.

Hey man, you yourself said it's sad the way you overreact to other people's opinions on films.

Don't crucify me, I was simply agreeing with you, pal, and suggesting you might wanna get some professional help with that. It sounds mentally unhealthy.

I wish you luck.

The Wook
 
Rogue One has become one of my favorite SW movies. It's hard for me to rank them, but it's in my top 3 next to ESB and ANH.
 
This bullcrap about being "invested in the characters" is such a silly and tired cliché. I can't remember when I felt "invested in the characters" of a movie. Hell it's not like they're family members or even friends in your life. Is Rogue One enjoyable? Yep. Do I get tired of looking at or listening to the characters over the course of 2+ hours? Nope. Is it a fun and enjoyable ride? Yep. And lastly does it make the original Star Wars movie better by filling in a plothole and showing the enormity of the Rebellion's sacrifice to get the Death Star plans? Yep. It's just a perfect companion movie to the original classic. And I hope that it burns you up to think that the younger Star Wars crowd will be watching it right before A New Hope! :D

Uh...cool your jets there, hoss. I liked the movie. Said so below my quote of you, even. I'm delighted at the new content coming out, and have enjoyed it overall, although I see a few hiccups here and there. So, no, it doesn't "burn me up" to think that younger kids will watch it. I don't actually care much one way or the other (although I'll be showing my kid the films in "airing order" rather than "chronological order," but that's just because I think you get a better appreciation for the older stuff if you start with it).

As to the "bullcrap about being invested in the characters," that's actually not exactly what I said. I was talking about well-drawn characters who are relatable. That's not the same thing as being invested in them, though. "Relatable" means that they make sense to the audience, and the audience understands their motivations and actions. They aren't acting in some way that leaves people saying "WTF? Why would they do that?" or that leaves you thinking that the characters are just doing X because the writer decided "Now is the time to do X" or, worse, are doing X in spite of what we've seen about them that'd suggest they'd do Y here. Basically, you need characters who are at least reasonably interesting so that people give a damn about what happens to them, and you need characters who are defined enough and consistently written that their actions make sense in context and based on what we know about them. That's it. I think Rogue One did that pretty well. Not as well as I might have liked, but still well. Like, when Cassian says he's been fighting the war since he was 6 years old (or however old he was), that left me curious as to what his backstory was. We got hints of it, but I would've liked to get to know more about the character. Still, as long as his background is clear enough, it's not really necessary to tell the story or show why his change in behavior over the course of the film matters. Likewise, I think we could've done well to see more of Jyn while she's forced to live on her own. It would've made her decision to really fight that much more meaningful...although it again wasn't really all that necessary for the film, and they give you a fair bit of it in dialogue.
 
I've only seen Rogue One once, but I really enjoyed it when I did. (I own it, but haven't gotten round to re-watching it yet.)

I don't think you did like it very much, Dano. I mean, c'mon, let's be real, here The film came out 1.5 years ago, and has been out on DVD for over a year. If you really liked the film, as you claim, you would've seen it a second time (at the very least) during all this time.

The Wook
 
I don't think you did like it very much, Dano. I mean, c'mon, let's be real, here The film came out 1.5 years ago, and has been out on DVD for over a year. If you really liked the film, as you claim, you would've seen it a second time (at the very least) during all this time.

The Wook
Oh, no. I liked it quite a bit. I own a copy, but I actually rewatch movies far less often these days than I used to.

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I own a copy, but I actually re-watch movies far less often these days than I used to.

Well that's odd.

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