Blade Runner 2049, old and new blasters!

Lear60man said:

We all stand on the shoulders of giants.

NOBODY, except the original prop masters, made the original BR blasters. Tomu, Sidkit, FluffY McFluffyFace, didn't made their works without borrowing some amount of content from others. They made their products on borrowed information.

In the beginning, it was some crappy replicas for sale in Starlog magazine based off of vhs on pause. Then the internet ramps up and the original parts come to surface.

Gradually, the prop is perfected from MANY sources over the years ( Propsummit, Phil, Rich, Sid, Tomu etc.)

Tomenauke did not originate this prop in any way, shape or form. They might have perfected it, but it was on the shoulders of giants.

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While I agree with the principle of what you say in this particular case I believe you are missing the point. Tomenosuke were contracted to supply the prop master a certain number of blasters for the movie and they also have an exclusive license to produce blasters for the public. Because the contract with production was for items purchased from them, the issue is that the Propmaster in the video failed to credit them for the work - much like a studio refusing to credit Drew Struzan for painting a poster of their IP.

The argument that they stand - as others do - on the shoulders of giants is true in every respect and while this can be argued, it comes down to bad form on behalf of the Propmaster for taking all the credit for work he (holding a Tomenosuke) didn't do.

Not only did they fail to credit them, they straight up lied to Wired and others with detailed descriptions of how they researched and built it themselves, unless they're appropriating Tomenosuke as being part of their "team".

KramStaar said:

While I agree with the principle of what you say in this particular case I believe you are missing the point. Tomenosuke were contracted to supply the prop master a certain number of blasters for the movie and they also have an exclusive license to produce blasters for the public. Because the contract with production was for items purchased from them, the issue is that the Propmaster in the video failed to credit them for the work - much like a studio refusing to credit Drew Struzan for painting a poster of their IP.

The argument that they stand - as others do - on the shoulders of giants is true in every respect and while this can be argued, it comes down to bad form on behalf of the Propmaster for taking all the credit for work he (holding a Tomenosuke) didn't do.

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I did not know that they purchased a license. Even with that knowledge, its like the snake eating itself. Did/does Tomensuke credit the people who they got their information/prototypes from? If not, they did the same thing the propmasters on BR2017 did but went the extra yard in procuring a license. Which brings up another layer of confusion.......Does the license absolve them of perfecting a Sidkit etc?
Anovos, Master Replicas EFX etc all went to ILM to get their reference material, 3D scans etc. From what I can gather Tomesuke did not

I get it, they got punk'd by the current propmaster, but ILM did the same thing by using off the shelf X-Wing models in ROTJ. There was no official credit given to MPC (or was it Revell?) by ILM.

But yes its bad form by the current Propmaster, but Tomensuke's hands arent clean either.

Sorry I write in wrong thread! BTW Sad story....

How lame. Taking credit for someone else's r&d and final product.

Tomenosuke gave credit where it was due to Karl Tate for all his research he did specifically for them on the original 1982 Hero while at WorldCon (was it 2007?).
Check out their blog site. their hands look pretty clean to me.

David3 said:

Tomenosuke gave credit where it was due to Karl Tate (aka Phase Pistol) for all his research he did specifically for them on the original 1982 Hero while at WorldCon (was it 2007?).
Check out their blog site. their hands look pretty clean to me.

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2006 but I only know this because I'm working on an Off World to Worldcon conversion.

Hello guys, I don't post so much arround the forums, but i like read the posts. A lot of you probably know who I am, if not I am the one that made the sidkit blaster for siderio.Just for knowledge, starting from 2007 (with Siderio), I sold more blaster kits than the others competirors on the market and I am continuing to sell it. I don't need to go on the forum for pubblicity, the sidkit blaster sell itself.Today I sold the number 1,256 blaster kit.I personally don't like Richard Colyle, but I have to be honest, it was a landmark for all Blaster collectors, without Coyle and his little "Venture" the sidkit blaster couldn't happen and the tomenosuke too.We would have to remember others guys that made blasters, you just know who they are.Seems that all people forget the credits. The first credits would be for Steyr and charter arms, probably the movie production can't say officially that Tomenosuke works for them. How tomenosuke are selling an officially blaster with marks that are trademarks of others? I never read Tomenosuk's steyr and charter arms credits! As Siderio said: "The blade runner blaster is a property of everyone" and we thank you steyr and charter arms, for the other blaster parts that compose this fantastic gun you can make them with not so much efforts. Do you understand that Tomenosuke made a Toy! Great, Amazing non functional toy and not a propmaster original piece. A sidkit blaster cost three time less than a Tomenosuke but I don't really understand why the Tomenosuke toy continue to cost so much?It is a mass produced toy! However, I hope my words didn't upset or offended anyone, it just the true.
Michelle Possanza

I think the point is that this guy said their prop department made them and didn't use
a Tomenosuke. That in my opinion is dishonest. If they had used a Coyle or Sidkit I
would have expected the credit to go to those two respectively instead of saying
"Hey look at this. I built it bolt by bolt.' .

Lear60man said:

I did not know that they purchased a license. Even with that knowledge, its like the snake eating itself. Did/does Tomensuke credit the people who they got their information/prototypes from? If not, they did the same thing the propmasters on BR2017 did but went the extra yard in procuring a license. Which brings up another layer of confusion.......Does the license absolve them of perfecting a Sidkit etc?
Anovos, Master Replicas EFX etc all went to ILM to get their reference material, 3D scans etc. From what I can gather Tomesuke did not

I get it, they got punk'd by the current propmaster, but ILM did the same thing by using off the shelf X-Wing models in ROTJ. There was no official credit given to MPC (or was it Revell?) by ILM.

But yes its bad form by the current Propmaster, but Tomensuke's hands arent clean either.

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As others have said Tomenosuke have gone out of their way to credit all the people involved in them acquiring the blaster info. Their blog is peppered with credits and so the argument that they are somehow dealing under the table is not correct.

Building their initial offering they fell into the very confused licensing restrictions around the first movie (as did Coyle, Sid, Hartford etc.) to get their first blaster made. Back then there was no firm guide surrounding the rights to the first movie between Bud Yorkin et al, so they created a market or indeed added to an already existing one. When the current (strict) licensing that surrounds the new movie were put in place, Tomenosuke entered all the correct legal agreements that would grant them the rights to creating their blaster. They have not cheated or hidden any of their dealings, they have done everything perfectly above board and legally.

With this in mind, I'm sure you will agree that they have not put a foot out of line in their dealings with this movie. They are also contracted to supply blasters to the set (as a licensed contractor) so here too, they have not misstepped so to assert that their hands are not clean regarding the 2049 production is not correct.

Cheers,
MARK

Mark,

You brought a lot of information that I was not aware of. I have had my BR collection 'finished' a long time ago and can see now the rub. Thanks for cluing me in as I never lurked their site etc.

What strikes me as odd is why the propmaster would wilfully attempt to deceive anyone about the blasters being used in BR2049 when it must have been obvious the vastly knowledgeable fan base would immediately pick up on it. I would hope this is just a stupid mistake and will be corrected...

It still feels like something isn't adding up...why would the owner of the original hero prop fly it out for the crew to inspect, if they were just going use Tomenosuke-built replicas rather than building a new hero from scratch?

Patattack said:

It still feels like something isn't adding up...why would the owner of the original hero prop fly it out for the crew to inspect, if they were just going use Tomenosuke-built replicas rather than building a new hero from scratch?

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If I had an original BR blaster, I would have a bag packed by the front door ready to go visit the prop shop. The prop builders probably wanted to see the original vs the Tomu blasters to see if there was any secrets to be had.

They also used it for reference to age the Tomenosuke blasters I'm sure.

A couple new blasters from the final short film. Since this just came out, I'm going to put spoiler tags on them.

michelle said:

Do you understand that Tomenosuke made a Toy! Great, Amazing non functional toy and not a propmaster original piece. A sidkit blaster cost three time less than a Tomenosuke but I don't really understand why the Tomenosuke toy continue to cost so much?It is a mass produced toy! However, I hope my words didn't upset or offended anyone, it just the true.
Michelle Possanza

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I guess most people just ignored your message because it's really misplaced but I have some things to say. your are saying Tomenosuke are mass produced toys when they are kind of hand produced in limited runs of 100 or something similar and you are saying yourself that you sold 1256 of yours.
Then, I have to say that my blaster kit cost me 665euro with the taxes in here and that is the most expensive tomenosuke blaster kit I've heard of, most people paid less taxes. (not talking about the people making money with the kits on ebay for crazy prices, that I really dislike), Now, taking the price I paid which was expensive, if you are saying your blasters cost 3 times less, then please contact me, i'm interested in buying one of your metal kit for 221euro. thanks!
By the way, I saw some of your kits sold by someone named comprarobe go for 600euro, this is the same price as a Tomenosuke.
Now, coming to that thread where we are talking about how unfair it is for tomenosuke to not have been credited for their amazing quality work and just saying that they are producing an overpriced mass produced toy is really misplaced once again. :unsure

Sir, you probably have no Idea about a die-cast and plastic injection production costs. Do you really think that Tomenosuke make every time 100 or 50 casting??? Do you have any idea what the cost are to start up and set-up the machines to made the plastic injection parts and overall die-cast zama parts and plus alluminium parts???? Do you think Tomenosuke made the plastic and metal parts manually? Probably you didn't understand that Tomenosuke First and unique starting production were based on a minimum of 500/1000 blasters.Tokyo marui do and did the same so he can sold an high quality airsoft gun for $180, and THE TOMENOSUKE KIT WOULD HAVE TO COST MAXIMUM $350 seen it isn't an airsoft gun. Tomenosuke sold them time to time in limited edition of 50 or 100 or moret but the parts are just stored and he will be really tired to see the blaster parts everywere on his appartment firm. I also read a post where said he promise this will be the last run'etc... And yes you was very lucky to buy the kit for $600 because seems that every time he sell a new blaster (the same blaster with same stock parts) the sold out is near the corner under 7 days or so. I don't think that the people that sell on ebay or yahoo auction japan lists the kit for the price you mentioned. Strange but probably you are unaware about the selling price on the most known auction websites. I think you don't know the game of the three carts, but if yes, you know what I mean.I think that Tomenosuke, when he started his adventure, thought that on propsummit and rpf there were thousands of collector ready to buy thousands of blaster.I sold mine '1256' in 10 years of busyness, he probably will sell his blasters within 10 years more. I never promise to the people I will sold 100 blaster only, than other 50, then other 100, than I promise these rae the last 50 and without publicity I sold everyday, still mark has a sidkit and thanks to generosity of Tomenosuke now he has got a Tom Blaster too. I was silent for years, but it's unvelievable the people really think that are buying a Tomenosuke to make a sort of benefaction.I bought last week my airsoft aliens pulse rifle on japan for $699, it is a big airsoft with electronics sci-fi rifle and it cost just a few more than a tomenosuke blaster.The limited edition is only a excuse. Now he have the rights and mark said probably also the steyr and charter arms approval? he did all in the rightg way so he can officially sold 'the blaster' the same publicized like the one used on the new movie, it is NOT. I think this is the problem and not the credits. The propmaster made his own version that differ fro a Tomenosuche blaster also if probably used his blaster.Seen Tomenosuke has the rights why don't sell 500 of them, give enjoy to all collectors and ask $369 for a built up? Because there are not 500 collectors ready to buy them. He continue sell to the "áffecionados" and the new collector entry with fresh monbey. I think you are a young guy, otherwise you would know that me and siderio started a revolution, al lot of here and on propsummit know that. When a blade runne made totally in resin costed $1,200 we started to sell our kit for $369.00 and it was made in metal. Stay sure I ma not me the speculator as you presumend.

Thanks for your post.

Aaaand it's a good thing Rich is no longer on the RPF...there would be an explosion of nasty words between him and michelle :behave Obviously, this rant is not appropriate for the thread at hand!!

Yes sorry, clearly this was a mistake and it's never going to be constructive or based on actual facts. Just want to make clear that I never said that buying from tomenosuke was for a benefaction :confused
Anyways, thanks for your point of view, I clearly don't agree but let's not make that go out of control. :thumbsup