TIEs and Ys

moffeaton

moffeaton

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
An Interceptor, a Hero ANH TIE (matching the color to the EFX tie), and the "Triangles" Y-Wing in progress. A paint master landed and has sidelined these for a week, but l should have the Interceptor done for Jerseyfest. I'd like to bring something new, after all.

I have a Hero Wingstar step by step on Facebook with Plastruct codes and step by step pics. Stars are built - all that's left is paint and Kool Shade/paper.

https://www.facebook.com/roboterkampf/media_set?set=a.10154379443953156.1073741933.674213155&type=3

Check out that crazy color shift with the TIE paint... it looks different in EVERY light source - that is the same color on both balls and wings. The EFX ball is in both pics, just moved position:

IMG_0880.jpgIMG_0878.jpg
 
I'll try to have at least the Interceptor done for it! I can bring the Hero Wing Stars to if you want to take a poke at how I glued 'em up. The lasercut inner frame really feels like it's going to make a clean glue of the Kool Shade/sandwich of the stars.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm going to use styrene cans for Y-Wings from now on, since we have those engine plant-on assemblies being cast up. Game changer, for easy to achieve perfectly round engines!
 
John, I got a RUSH when I saw that TIE in the trailer! I'd love to see the "Pentagon" one make an appearance. Two tone you say? I will take a closer look!!

Steve, I am looking forward to the next TIE you offer. These ones in progress are amazing models and they do have the correct armatures I had machined (the Vader one you had machined is even more accurate with the pass-throughs for the wiring to the wings!). My current one becomes "Vader's Wingman" with the crumpled wingstar and the one I get from you (when you are ready) will be the other wingman - with that sweet sweet Vader TIE in the middle. All mounted to the wall, from the backs, banking downwards (well, Wingman will maybe be spinning out of control, lol)... It's gonna look COOL.
 
This will save some aggravation at Home Depot - you need fine thread not coarse, so go to Ace. I had a machine shop cut the heads off these bolts and thread the ends to 1/4-20 so you can mount the TIEs to a Panavise and angle them any way you want. The nice thing is that the bolt can be screwed into the center mount until it is barely prod from the mounting hole, and you get a great lock with the Panavise without marring the paint.

Screen Shot 2016-08-16 at 1.11.03 PM.png
 
Agreed on the wing star info!. That was a great tutorial I appreciate the album with the images :)

Is that same t-bar used on other ANH models? Or were many different t-bar sizes used?

I really appreciate threads like this where info and some techniques are shared. It helps a new guy like me learn and see new techniques on how these sorts of things are assembled and made!
 
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I'm really glad it helped! Every one is new to the hobby at some point, and any thing I can do to help I gladly give. We are all a collective, and these models get made on the backs of every one. Some of the stuff I did on the TIE was born out of pointers from Lorne, too. You can't ask for a better source of info than the guy who made the first TIEs.

And to be honest, you can making these spaceships for years upon years and still easily forget how you made something once your brain is focused on the next thing. It had been three years since I made my last wing stars, and I had to "relearn" what I did. So I decided to document it for the next time I make one, and for any one else who wants to.

On the T bars - they used all sorts. The TIE uses H-Beams and Ts different from the Y-Wing's engine braces and different from the Laser Turret. Some of the smaller profiles are here and there (I think there's a piece on the Y body)... basically you just keep buying and never throw the scraps away. LOL
 
moffeaton said:
I have a Hero Wingstar step by step on Facebook with Plastruct codes and step by step pics. Stars are built - all that's left is paint and Kool Shade/paper.

https://www.facebook.com/roboterkampf/media_set?set=a.10154379443953156.1073741933.674213155&type=3
Click to expand...

Nice tutorial on the Wing-Stars Jason.
You may recall back in 2010 when I showed you how ILM had mitered the wings (after close inspection of an original) I thought their method left the corners a little "flimsy". As evidenced by the many repaired wings seen on the miniatures today.
I like the way you cut down the H-beam and left the center ...it makes for a stronger joint and the end result after assembly looks identical to what ILM had done.
Not to "nit-pick" but as we all strive very hard for accuracy here on the RPF... ;)
I am afraid you indicated the wrong Plastuct 1/8" T-Beam. in the one picture on FaceBook.
Your picture shows the Styrene 3/64" T-Beam which has a completely different profile/cross-section than the Grey ABS 1/8" T-Beam (see pic)
Back in 1977 ILM modelers used the ABS 1/8 T-beam Plastruct Catalog item # T-4
ABS Plastruct.jpg

Also in 1977 the Styrene T-Beam (Catalog # TFS -4) was not part of Plastruct's product line. That came out later in the mid 1980s
I can see you may have just grabbed the wrong package from your stash as it looks like you actually glued the ABS (T-4) on the wing itself

I have a diagram I made which has Miter-cut guides to assist in cutting the ABS stock --for both the 1/4" H_Beam (item # H-8) and the 1/8" T-B (item #T-4)
I was "sitting on it" until Steve sent me a TIE to make a Step by step assembly guide. I'll have to put it up for download)

ABS Plastruct.jpg
 
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moffeaton said:
Check out that crazy color shift with the TIE paint... it looks different in EVERY light source - that is the same color on both balls and wings. The EFX ball is in both pics, just moved position:

View attachment 655051View attachment 655050
Click to expand...

Can’t Wait to get my editions of the Tie fighters too... (back when I re-designed and reverse engineered the SS Wing-Stars) along with making the Virtual Kool-Shade for non-hero version cores. -- John too, did a great job ID-ing & mastering all the greeblie details on the wings.
I had some lacquer paint custom matched from a spectrophotometer scan off the EFX TIE. So it could look in-correct in every different light apperrently... :lol

At the time (2009) we were pushing the limits of what could be done with stereo-lithography.
We could only print (practically) about a 6” by 9" inch section of the Virtual Kool-shade (VKS)
It was a lot of work engineering a section of VKS that was tile-able and interlocking without any visible seems. The Plan was to cast the prototype and inter-lock multiple sections then the seamlessly combined large piece would be again cast again. I was able to “Key” the interlocking sections (perpendicular to the louvres) at the braided wire, hiding the seam perfectly. Test prints showed it looked a lot better than the clayed-up real Kool-Shade
We had problems with the Printed material warping and we decided it was impractical.
The technology has been moving along so rapidly (and now it’s become so main-stream)
...fast forward to 2014 we were able to print pieces large enough for all the triangles needed for the Basic TIE wing… and out of newer material with better qualities and no warping troubles.
All for less money! God Bless capitalism
This re-design also lets the “non-hero” wings go together more like the “hero” versions with real Kool-Shade. (Without the $600 additional cost just for the Kool-Shade)

Kool_Shade_11.jpgKool_Shade_12.jpgVirtual_KoolShade_3.jpgEXP_View_2.jpgArmature & ball_3.jpg

Kool_Shade_11.jpg


Kool_Shade_12.jpg


Virtual_KoolShade_3.jpg


EXP_View_2.jpg


Armature & ball_3.jpg
 
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Indeed I did use the right stuff - but my code numbers are correct. Where are you seeing incorrect #s listed?

I'd like to fix the page.


Screen Shot 2016-08-26 at 9.20.40 AM.png
 
Jason, I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to "but your chops". - I only have respect for your modelling skills.
I was referring to the picture on your FaceBook instructions ( see attached) I think you accidentally snapped a pic of the wrong type of Plastruct T-Beam (3/64 Styrene was shown)
Styrene T-Beam.jpg

So for the sake of Clarity -for anyone taking notes on building themselves a SS TIE Fighter
Below are Pics of the Type of Plastruct ABS Stock to use for an accurate ANH TIE Fighter
The original ILM miniatures used Plastruct 1/4" inch ABS H-Beam ( item # H-8) and 1/8" inch ABS T-Beam (Item # T-4)
Keep in mind: in many cases the styrene plastic (usually white) Plastruct stock has slightly different shape & profile then their ABS plastic counter-parts

ABS H-Beam & T-Beam.jpgABS H-Beam & T-Beam2.jpgABS H-Beam & T-Beam3.jpg
Feel free to use my pictures, though I apologize for the lack of quality, my good DSLR camera was stolen while on vacation abroad.

Sorry -spent way more time on this topic then I wanted, I dont mean to usurp the subject of this thread
Incidentally, I think there is a technical "glitch" to you attachment in the preceding post
I'm also not criticizing your FaceBook prowess, --myself... I'm lucky if I get on FaceBook once or twice a month
 
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image.jpeg

Mike I was asking about this. That is why that picture is on my FB album. I know in that pic above the t beam is too big, but was the only pic I have handy on my phone
 
moffeaton said:
View attachment 658617

Mike I was asking about this. That is why that picture is on my FB album. I know in that pic above the t beam is too big, but was the only pic I have handy on my phone
Click to expand...

Jason, my apologies, for creating any confusion I thought your picture on FB was frefeering to the Outer frame.
You are correct that 3/64" T-beam should go on top of the Wing-Spars. as you have illustrated.
I Just checked re-liable reference and my project notes. Also 3/64 T-beam used on the X-1 Vader TIE (measured first-hand btw) -as after all, they used cut-up "standard TIE" wing spars to detail the bent wings.

However it is more likley ABS Plastic was used. ( as I mentioned Plastruct expanded their product line in the 1980s including more shapes in styrene
The Profile of the ABS may be a bit different than the styrene 3/64". I can not check for sure, as I am out of stock of the styrene 3/64 T-beam, at the moment.

3/64" is the smallest size T-Beam Plastruct ever made, most likley the profile for this particular size is the same in either ABS or Styrene.
With some of the bigger sizes (like 3/16" and 1/4" there is a difference in the profile/thickness of ABS vs. Styrene, obviously the "outside" dimensions are the same (ie: 1/4" is 1/4") for both type of plastics.
I will run by the LHS tomorrow and check to see ( apparently I need more stock anyway.)
I may also give Rhonda at Plastruct a call on Monday morning to see what she knows about the history of their product line, she has been there for years and is very knowledgeable.


Those are nice instructions by the way. Thanks for posting them
Apparently- not idiot proof though -as I managed to get confused ( I had skimmed over them too quickly before posting)

Thinking about it: was a good call on John's (& Steve's) part to leave that part off the master. That ridge is too thin and too easy to chip and break in resin.
It would be a real PIA to repair ...better to add in plastic, -more resilient on the finished model too.

Also for those not satisfied using 3/64" T-beam, they are free to come up with another solution
... and no, Evergreen does not offer a smaller sized T-beam in their product line.

Drive safe coming home for NJ
 
greeble_gremlin said:
Thinking about it: was a good call on John's (& Steve's) part to leave that part off the master. That ridge is too thin and too easy to chip and break in resin.
It would be a real PIA to repair
Click to expand...

Yes, they are. I have Steve's first TIE release, and the ridges are paper thin, and got chipped all to hell.
 
Thanks, Treadwell
It's a good thing that we higher primates have a large occipital lobe ..helps us learn from previous experience ,- good for abstraction and translating 2D to 3D spatial relations too.
If you have ever seen John's work shop..truly amazing! -Plastic card-stock fabricated pieces that you would think were laser cut or CNC machined ...all made and cut by hand. Hes a very precise and talented fellow.
(his workshop is annoyingly neat a tidy too) --typing this as I push back an encroaching pile of Studio Kit boxes next to my flat screen array
I think we were able to make some very significant improvements in the new TIE wing masters -not only in accuracy because of better information but also in the engineering
 
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