New alternative for Solo Blaster

I've been agonizing over picking up an easy snap-in grill from Shapeways, or just going for it and just picking up some more radiators form Reade. Looking over just now, though, I see the only options listed for your listing are "White Processed Versatile Plastic" and "Black Natural Versatile Plastic", plus the "Smooth Fine Detail Plastic" that you seem to recommend against?

My main beef with 3D printed parts are print lines and lack of sharp detail. The latest models seem to do surprisingly well with detail, but I still see print lines even in your example parts. Is there one that can be ordered that does NOT have print lines? (or at least they can be sanded out reasonably easily)


Short answer is yes. Just order the “processed” in white or “SFDP” and I think you will be surprised. The black for what ever reason can’t be “processed” so it’s not as “smooth” as the others. But I did use the black on my AWC conversion above. I started with two coats of primer. Applied about 5 minutes apart from each other. Krylon is the best IMHO as it dries super fast. You can see from the photo below even after just two coats it’s already pretty smooth and I haven’t even touched the sandpaper yet..
020654a5d1ad2b10cea5238b50ccc8c9.jpg


Then after about 10/15 minutes I lightly sand with 400 sand paper. (Don’t use any coarse sandpaper, the finer the better). Zoom in on the picture below and you can see just how smooth it is..
dcd423fb367e4bc36280d678442ea493.jpg


I’ll do a full build thread on this as well and link it here once I get it underway..

I’m not against the “smooth fine detail plastic” at all. Sorry if I came across that way. It’s a great resource! I personally find for parts like this (Heat Sink grille) that you don’t need the SFDP and the WPVP is more than adequate. I’ve yet to order this grille in SFDP but I’m sure it will be perfect for what you are looking for.

I think you have the same misconception with regards to 3D printing as most do if you don’t mind me saying so. I believe you are lumping all 3D prints into one category. Most people sell inexpensive prints that they make on there home 3D printer using the same generic inaccurate files you can get pretty much anywhere for free. These home printers can be had for as little as $200 and the high end printers cost upwards of 3K. These are the printers that leave print lines and use PLA mostly. Which leaves a lot to be desired and unfortunately gives 3D printing an unfair reputation..

What I’m using here is mostly SLS printing technology which doesn’t have any real print lines at all. I’m curious as to where you see them? The process is layered yes but it’s a heating bed of nylon and once painted you can’t tell the difference between these parts and metal parts. That because these SLS machines cost upwards of 200k each. I like to use cars as the analogy. You can drive either a pinto or a Lamborghini. Same goes for these printers..

I know for most it’s metal or nothing so that’s why I designed these parts so these SLS replacements would be as minimal as possible. That and hopefully it will also open the door to just how amazing this technology actually is. The grille, Mystery Disk, Bull Barrel and left side replacement. Otherwise you keep all the metal parts that came with the AWC itself [emoji106]

Here for example so you can see how well these Shapeways parts can come out is a DAGOBAH, GREEDO KILLER & HERO. Each are built with a metal denix Mauser using metal screws but ALL the parts/kits are WPVP (the scope wheel on the HERO is SFDP because of the small detailed number’s).

On this HERO below is a grille I actually designed directly off a set of those vintage “Reade model cylinders” in fact. I cut each cylinder up into shape first then made STL files out of them. But those cylinders might look a little awkward on an airsoft as the airsoft is bigger up front than a denix or a real c96 for that matter..
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And here is a BESPIN in natural light. Same with this build, only metal parts are the screws and denix (and the ring around the light port is a metal wire)..
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Last I heard Reade is out of the business for now due to some medical issues (see here). The fine detail plastic is sharp and has minimal lines - what's not resolved by 5 minutes of light sanding should be hidden by the primer and paint (as mentioned even the versatile plastic will smooth up pretty well with high-build filler primer). Depending on the orientation of the part as it is printed, there could be some faces with slightly rougher texture due to the material that supports overhanging structures, but that's also handled well by the primer. And the fine detail can be brittle when thin, but it's fairly durable on something like the heat sink, unless you're going to be holstering the blaster. I just ordered one and I'll post pics when it arrives so you can get a better idea of the difference between the two materials :)


I would correct you only on a couple of things here. I’ve been using shapeways to produce my parts for over 4 years now.

Both materials (SFDP and the WPVP) will take very minimal primer and even less sanding than you think.

There is no “rougher texture due to the supports from overhanging structures” with these materials. In fact there is no overhanging at all with SLS prints. The SFDP are produced in a bed of nylon which uses the excess nylon itself for support. So again no worries about those rough textures at all. It just doesn’t happen.

Honestly it come down to (same with machining) just how accurate and detailed the file is that’s being upload [emoji106]
 
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Not trying to get into an argument here but I've been using Shapeways for over 4.5 years as well. The rougher surface I refer to with the FUD/FXD (now "fine detail") occurs on all surfaces with a negative slope - specifically those surfaces where the print is in contact with the supporting powder underneath. It is not overly visible, but it is still there.

Take a look at these two FUD prints, which are cylindrical but were printed in a horizontal orientation (for scale, they are 1.125 inch long):


Untitled

It's hard to make out in a photo, but note on the raw print how there is a visible line where the texture of the print changes. That demarcation is the change from a negative slope (where the print rested on the underlying powder) to a positive slope, with subsequent print layers being supported by the body of the print. The texture is not excessive, but it's not ideal particularly when you expect a uniform finish on a cylindrical object. These prints were made before Shapeways offered the option to set a print orientation, and issues such as this were the reason the option was introduced in the first place. But as mentioned, light sanding and a couple of layers of sandable primer largely resolve the rough texture (primered print above may not have even been sanded).
 
Short answer is yes. Just order the “processed” in white or “SFDP” and I think you will be surprised. The black for what ever reason can’t be “processed” so it’s not as “smooth” as the others. But I did use the black on my AWC conversion above. I started with two coats of primer. Applied about 5 minutes apart from each other. Krylon is the best IMHO as it dries super fast. You can see from the photo below even after just two coats it’s already pretty smooth and I haven’t even touched the sandpaper yet..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180616/020654a5d1ad2b10cea5238b50ccc8c9.jpg

Then after about 10/15 minutes I lightly sand with 400 sand paper. (Don’t use any coarse sandpaper, the finer the better). Zoom in on the picture below and you can see just how smooth it is.. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180616/dcd423fb367e4bc36280d678442ea493.jpg

Yes, SLS does a very nice job with smooth sided cylinders. But I'm wasn't talking about cylinders like that, I was specifically referring to the heat sink/grill.

I think you have the same misconception with regards to 3D printing as most do if you don’t mind me saying so. I believe you are lumping all 3D prints into one category. Most people sell inexpensive prints that they make on there home 3D printer using the same generic inaccurate files you can get pretty much anywhere for free. These home printers can be had for as little as $200 and the high end printers cost upwards of 3K. These are the printers that leave print lines and use PLA mostly. Which leaves a lot to be desired and unfortunately gives 3D printing an unfair reputation..

No, not really. I'm quite familiar with 3D printing, and the pros and cons of the various common technologies, be they FDM, SLS, or SLA. There are pros and cons to each.

What I’m using here is mostly SLS printing technology which doesn’t have any real print lines at all. I’m curious as to where you see them? The process is layered yes but it’s a heating bed of nylon and once painted you can’t tell the difference between these parts and metal parts.

Here's where I see the print lines:

99f2d5334c5a923a64b7bd54d0d830be.jpg


The stepped lines are quite visible on the underside of each ridge, even after painting. It's possible they could be eliminated with sanding each rib, but... oy. Thus my preference for the real model parts. At least, for this particular part.

Now, are they visible from 5 feet away? Definitely not. But they would be, holding it in your hand, and looking it over. And even if other people wouldn't likely notice them, *I* would notice. And know they're there. And it would bother me. Thus, my dilemma.

Most of your other parts (such as the bull barrel) are fortunate to be shaped in a way to avoid this issue. And it's not an issue with your model, just 3D printing in general. Perhaps SLA could provide the smooth perfection I seek?
 
Yes, SLS does a very nice job with smooth sided cylinders. But I'm wasn't talking about cylinders like that, I was specifically referring to the heat sink/grill.



No, not really. I'm quite familiar with 3D printing, and the pros and cons of the various common technologies, be they FDM, SLS, or SLA. There are pros and cons to each.



Here's where I see the print lines:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180615/99f2d5334c5a923a64b7bd54d0d830be.jpg

The stepped lines are quite visible on the underside of each ridge, even after painting. It's possible they could be eliminated with sanding each rib, but... oy. Thus my preference for the real model parts. At least, for this particular part.

Now, are they visible from 5 feet away? Definitely not. But they would be, holding it in your hand, and looking it over. And even if other people wouldn't likely notice them, *I* would notice. And know they're there. And it would bother me. Thus, my dilemma.

Most of your other parts (such as the bull barrel) are fortunate to be shaped in a way to avoid this issue. And it's not an issue with your model, just 3D printing in general. Perhaps SLA could provide the smooth perfection I seek?

I hear you. And ur right because of the groves it would be a nightmare to have to sand in Between each part. For some it’s not an issue but I do have the same OCD with these details.

I have the “smooth fine detailed plastic” on order but I’ll also order the “smoothest fine detailed plastic” as well and post pictures of each here. Painted and unpainted to see if those parts can capture a higher level of smoothness. [emoji106]
 
I hear you. And ur right because of the groves it would be a nightmare to have to sand in Between each part. For some it’s not an issue but I do have the same OCD with these details.

I have the “smooth fine detailed plastic” on order but I’ll also order the “smoothest fine detailed plastic” as well and post pictures of each here. Painted and unpainted to see if those parts can capture a higher level of smoothness. [emoji106]

Here’s the smoothest option on the version I have. I just rinsed it off to get the powder off then hit it with black rattle can.
d91c941d33f1cb06a437e44e699b3df0.heic


4d2777cde37f03bdf88e6d9014fa7d50.heic


801bc7e9f664cb03e81fdf24b2908378.heic



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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^^ That's pretty smooth, although it doesn't have the same V profile as the other prints (or the original parts). The "ribs" are blunt instead of coming to a fine point.
 
^^ That's pretty smooth, although it doesn't have the same V profile as the other prints (or the original parts). The "ribs" are blunt instead of coming to a fine point.

Yes, this version (mentioned earlier in the thread) is based off of the ANH / Reade Models original parts.
 
Great thread! I've been researching a ton and just ordered my AWC today. And I'm gonna pick up @Chubbsanddoggers shapeways conversion kit soon. Can't wait!

I saw some of you are stripping the factory paint off the AWC and using aluminum black to refinish. What exactly is the benefit to this in terms of the final look and weathering? And if I'm gonna be modding the frame and barrel with plastic printed parts does that defeat the purpose since those wont match in any event?

https://www.therpf.com/member.php?u=129923
 
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If you are planning on redoing/replacing the whole left side I would just paint it. For it to look clean you will have to use a filler on the replacement side, sand and then some primer as well to smooth it over.
 
If you are planning on redoing/replacing the whole left side I would just paint it. For it to look clean you will have to use a filler on the replacement side, sand and then some primer as well to smooth it over.

Yeah, I've read through you're great build threads while researching this. I might need to wait and get some time in the the gun and parts before figuring out how to address that side.
 
Here is the “smooth fine detail plastic” (left) vs “smoothest fine detail plastic” (right) options from shapeways. For the bull barrel I printed up the one with the screws (smooth) and the another where you will add the screw details yourself (smoothest)..
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And here are some pics with the “smoothest” parts on the AWC..
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This is the bull barrel with the screw details printed in “smooth”..
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Here is the “smooth fine detail plastic” (left) vs “smoothest fine detail plastic” (right) options from shapeways. For the bull barrel I printed up the one with the screws (smooth) and the another where you will add the screw details yourself (smoothest)

Those look real sharp! Especially the disk.
 
I painted the “smoothest” options without using any primer or any real sanding (I did sand the “mystery disk” after one coat of silver). This is after the first coat of silver..
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Then a coat of matte black and then one coat of satin black afterwords. This is the result..
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Here they are on the AW Custom. If I was to do it again I would start with primer regardless but as you can see it’s not totally necessary..
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