Marvel's The Defenders (Netflix)

Fawbish said:

Im finding if you view it in the light of "12 year old kid learns nothing about the adult world but grows up believing he is a weapon" it does ease the characterisation a little.

Still doesnt resonate with me and I havent finished the last 4 eps yet, but looking back its better to use that filter. Which fits the narrative.

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I went into it watching with that mindset. Danny is essentially a child who has repressed incredible trauma, was told by the people who literally saved his life that he had to repress that, and who spent the rest of his life searching for both purpose and identity with no one to really guide him. Season 1 has been (I'm not finished, either) all about him coming to a point where he is even capable of confronting that fact.

firesprite said:

Allow me to clarify: my issue is less with Danny (because I do bear in mind that he's mentally and emotionally stunted), but with the fact that no one calls him on it and says "Hey, this isn't cool."

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I find that annoying, too, but I think you can excuse some of it based on the circumstances surrounding him, and the people with whom he associates. They're all basket-cases. Ward's dad really did a number on him. Joy has been warped by this as well, to some extent. Colleen is basically a female version of Danny, at least with respect to her repressed daddy issues, although she's at least learned how to maneuver through society somewhat more effectively. Claire is, well, Claire, always getting involved with powered people. And around all of this is The Hand, corrupting and destroying everything they touch. I don't think anyone has the capacity or the time to say "Dude. Not cool."

Fawbish said:

Absolutely - I don't think I'd actually realised that's what annoyed me, but its perfect. It doesn't keep the verisimilitude alive because there arent realistic reactions to his actions.

But not to keep on with negative stuff, it is what it is. The Defenders trailer has me excited. I loved the use of Nirvana, gave the whole thing a nice grungy feel. I'm more than happy to see Jessica Jones come back into play.

And of course - there is no life without Matt Murdock. That guy :love

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Yeah, I'm up for this as well. I think it could end up working out well. Plus, because it won't be solely focused on Danny, I think it will help offset the issues people had with Iron Fist. There simply won't be as much focus placed on the weaker series.

Marvel’s The Defenders | Official Trailer 2 [HD] | Netflix - YouTube

Anyone else watch since this dropped yesterday? The husband and I binged the whole thing last night and I honestly feel this is my new favorite of the Marvel series to-date.

We watched the first two episodes last night. Good start.

Just finished it. I loved every minute of it. Very nice transitions for each character and when they all got together for the first time it gave me chills. Sigourney Weaver was excellent!

Non spoiler mini review: I never actually thought that all these characters coming together would work out, but the team had such amazing chemistry! Charlie Cox's acting was great, makes me pumped for Daredevil S3. Mike Colter and Krysten Ritter were good too, I'm so looking forward to season 2 of their shows. Finn Jones' acting still kinda bugs me and takes me away from the scene but what can you do. He's actually a much better fighter in the 8 episodes of this than he was in 13 episodes of Iron Fist :lol loved every episode of this and I really hope we can get another season with more than 8 episodes

Finished watching season 1 just a little bit ago. So awesome!! Tons of moments where I was geeking out with a massive smile on my face. This show is exactly what I wanted it to be. Charlie Cox graces this show with his amazing acting chops once again and all the other Defenders are great too...even Danny! I hated him in Iron Fist for many reasons, but he seemed much less annoying in Defenders and a much better fighter. I actually got excited watching him fight in this show, unlike IF. He's still a totally idiot, but hopefully that will change as he matures.

Only big gripe I had is the villains, particularly Alexandra. Felt like a waste of Sigourney Weaver. They never explained her well or showed her true power, which they kept mentioning yet never gave us any substance. Alexandra, leader of the Hand...More like Alexandra the rich and powerful fancy woman who 1) looks concerned 2) dines alone 3) stands around and 4) tells Elektra she is "everything" and "my child" haha. I also was never a big fan of how the Hand was handled in the shows, so I'm glad they seem to have buried that storyline for good (see what I did there??)

Finished it last night. I only have three complaints:

1. The fight scenes were awful. shaky-cam, too many cuts, nothing clear. daredevil was nothing more than a boxer, rather than a martial artist.
2. For a show where the bad guys are a league of ninjas....where were the ninjas?
3. the first two points contribute to the ultimate issue of it feeling rushed and low budget. Netflix has produced works of art and I didn't see that here. There was very little thought going into the presentation.

womo68 said:

Just finished it. I loved every minute of it. Very nice transitions for each character and when they all got together for the first time it gave me chills. Sigourney Weaver was excellent!

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Totally, the four of them in that first scene was awesome. The constant back and forth between Luke Cage and Danny was my favorite part of the series!

****** ..... what a tragedy....

Daredevil season 1 was a masterpiece
Jessica Jones was a slow burn but worked. It wasn't "action"
Luke Cage worked well because it was genre.
Iron Fist was garbage.
Dare Devil Season 2 built on 1 and delivered.

But this.......this was just a mess.

I think they should have aimed for one really dense 2 or 3 hour movie. Even though it was just a truncated eight episode miniseries it really suffered from being long and drawn out. It goes without saying that Sigourney Weaver is a class act of an actress but she was wasted in this.
To be completely honest I'm not really even sure what this entire miniseries was about.
What WAS the hands plan?
It was just left very vague to me that really hurt and caused more potholes than anything.
But my chief complaint is it seems like at least in every episode there would be a scene where all four defenders just stood around disagreeing about stuff. And most of the time whatever they were saying was not consistent with where that characters story was.
As was said before this felt very low-budget. I had hoped that it would be a huge culmination with an epic story but it just sort of fizzled out.


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I really enjoyed it.

Finished it last night. Was ok, but Danny ruined it. Everyone on the show thinks Danny is a moron, except Danny, and maybe Colleen. Stick had the right idea regarding Danny, and if only he had succeeded, we might have been able to get the iron fist reboot we deserve!

"You are the dumbest Iron Fist yet"

Totally underwhelmed by this series. Better than Iron fist but not by much. The Hand seemed more like a bad corporation with a lot of security guards than any kind of evil villain. Plus you always know in the back of your mind, that if things get too bad, the Avengers would swoop in and take over for the b-list Defenders.

Defenders C+

Daredevil season 1 A+
Daredevil season 2 A-
Jessica Jones A+
Luke Cage A
Iron Fist F

To be honest I feel this ninja stuff is dated. Frank Miller's 80's mystic katana fetish might have translated well if treated with some originality but this carries some the same problems that Iron Fist had.

Dialogue is awful e.g. "blah blah blah your destiny blah blah blah." I got so bored with the core story that I don't even know or care what the Hand's long term plan was. Why does leveling NYC serve their ends? What's the big deal about dragon bones? What is Elektra's motive if she's not serving The Hand?

Alexandria is pointless and Sigourney Weaver brings nothing to the part.

That Japanese character (Murakami?) was just as pointless. They gave him an annoying "Chewbacca" treatment where nobody spoke Japanese yet everyone understood him. The gimmick was only distracting. Weaver's attempts at Japanese only made me appreciate her ignorance of Japanese.

I hate Bakuto. He's not acted or written well at all. He can't even fight. He just shows up to monologue. The actor has all the presence of an arrogant hipster.

Coleen Wing is just as awful. I don't think she's as horribly under-talented as the actor who plays Bakuto but she's certainly very, very weak and immature. The writing of her part doesn't help either. I'm irritated every time she comes on the screen.

On the other hand, Elektra is very well cast. She looks better and better in the part. The actor even has the same cheekbones that Frank Miller drew. She's not quite as athletic but does move well.

Cox does manage to squeeze out some memorable moments out of meager material and has genuine chemistry with Elektra.

I love Jessica Jones but they could have given her more to do. She's a lot more interesting as a character than the Defenders writers seem to appreciate. The same can be said about how they wrote Claire and Misty, come to think about it.

Jones and Luke Cage both lost a dimension in Defenders. At least the writing didn't actually ruin their characters so it's not all bad.

I did like some of the exchange between Cage and Iron Fist - especially when they first met/fought. Some of their moments together (e.g. When Rand is tied to a chair) showed some promise - but I wonder if it was driven more on the strength of Cage's performance. It's something to build on, at least. I really wish Finn will find his character but, so far, he's still flopping around the screen aimlessly.

Did I mention how bad the dialogue is? I hate all the existential pontification and monologing and this show, especially toward the end, is full of it (in every sense).

I actually liked the Daredevil/Elektra fight sequence at the end. It's basically just the end fight of Winter Soldier. But what makes this particularly effective has nothing to do with the writing but with the actors. I'll give full credit where it's due. I even got a little teary.

As with Iron Fist the fighting wasn't particularly good nor was it well filmed. I'm thinking especially about the later fights.

With an ensemble group like this each character should have moment in the spotlight - a hero moment that makes the viewer go, "Wow. That was cool!" In Civil War - Antman had his "giant" sequence, Hawkeye disabled The Vision in his rescue sequence, Scarlett Witch dropped The Vision by increasing his density, The Falcon had his gadgets that popped out during his fights as well as his signature move where he retracts his wings and tumbles away from The Vision's beam etc. I'm sorry but, in Defenders, Cage crushing a leaking pipe isn't enough of a memorable hero moment that makes me think back as "that was cool." This is basic to writing team superhero stories. Fire the writers.

Defenders wasn't as hopelessly awful as Iron Fist but it's enough for me to want Marvel Netflix to go on a hiatus and hand Drew Goddard a lump of cash to fix upcoming projects.

We enjoyed this for what it was but if they pulled out all the standard reasons to not explain the situation to each other and their loved ones


It's complicated
You wouldn't believe me if I told you
The less you know the safer you are


Just once I want the heroes to concisely explain the world ending situation that is unfolding to the little people so they can have something to be genuinely worried about.

If the current Immortal Iron Fist is just the next in a line of Immoral Iron Fists, what happened to the other Immortal Iron Fists?





Did they die?

dascoyne said:

If the current Immortal Iron Fist is just the next in a line of Immoral Iron Fists, what happened to the other Immortal Iron Fists?




Did they die?

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I think that the Immortal part of title is just symbolic, they're immortal in the sense that once one Iron Fist dies there's another that soon takes his place. And since they all take the title/name of Iron Fist, unlike, say, a king or the Pope, it adds to the whole immortal symbolism. Besides, being immortal doesn't mean you can't be killed, you just don't die of old age and/or diesease.

Just rewatched it. It's actually kind of... boring. I agree with that video essay, the Hand actually posed no real threat