Star Wars Celebration Archeology Panel

Very cool video. I also appreciated that they reminded people (not that it will ever sink in) that Episode I has the most models, including ship models, of any Star Wars movie. Disney's "practical effects" PR campaign is a load of BS. The PT had tons of practical effects and TFA had as much, if not more, digital effects and green screen as any prequel movie. It would be cool if that kitbash library could be open source. What a great reference that would be.
 
Very cool video. I also appreciated that they reminded people (not that it will ever sink in) that Episode I has the most models, including ship models, of any Star Wars movie. Disney's "practical effects" PR campaign is a load of BS. The PT had tons of practical effects and TFA had as much, if not more, digital effects and green screen as any prequel movie. It would be cool if that kitbash library could be open source. What a great reference that would be.

But the thing is TFA blended the practical & digital effects,....when people gripe about the amount of green screen in the Prequels its really the 2 digital films that they complain about,...Episodes 2 & 3 overloads your senses with the amount on screen & you can tell a lot of it is CG,....it's well documented with the "we'll fix that in post" comments,...they really do have a video game feel

Disney/Lucasfilm really underlined the fact that they were going to do a lot more in-camera,...a step back to the Original Trilogy (which also had a lot of blue screen comps),...trying to woo back the fans who had given up on the franchise.

J
 
I disagree about TFA blending the effects. From a pure visual, frame-by-frame perspective the graphics may be more advanced, but the animations were worse (more unrealistic) than everything in the PT. I found the PT had more love put into them, TFA was just an effects firework with high-saturation colored lights and a lot of shakiness to blend it all togehter. Even story aside, I found the PT better.
 
I disagree about TFA blending the effects. From a pure visual, frame-by-frame perspective the graphics may be more advanced, but the animations were worse (more unrealistic) than everything in the PT. I found the PT had more love put into them, TFA was just an effects firework with high-saturation colored lights and a lot of shakiness to blend it all togehter. Even story aside, I found the PT better.

Well taste is taste,....I found TFA very tasty....Prequels give me stomach upsets

...but everyone is different

J
 
But the thing is TFA blended the practical & digital effects,....when people gripe about the amount of green screen in the Prequels its really the 2 digital films that they complain about,...Episodes 2 & 3 overloads your senses with the amount on screen & you can tell a lot of it is CG,....it's well documented with the "we'll fix that in post" comments,...they really do have a video game feel

Disney/Lucasfilm really underlined the fact that they were going to do a lot more in-camera,...a step back to the Original Trilogy (which also had a lot of blue screen comps),...trying to woo back the fans who had given up on the franchise.

J

Luv ya, brother, but all the films blended practical and digital, even II and III. There are books and online resources showing all the sets, all the models built not only for Episode I, but the others as well. Now, you could argue that TFA blended them more seemlessly, but that's like saying that the blue screen in ROTJ was more seemless than the blue screen techniques developed for ANH. They're better because the technology is better. TFA was made thirteen years after AOTC. And the technology only got better because Lucas had the guts to push it. Yeah, fans complain about the CG stromtroopers in II and III, but Lucas did that because he wanted to push the technology. And he succeeded. Iron Man is entirely CG and no one complains (also because there was no beloved "practical effect" Iron Man suit from an earlier series of movies to compare it to). There were a ton of CG stormtroopers in TFA (watch the demo reels) and no one complains. People love to accuse Lucas of all sorts of sins to validate their hate of those movies, but Lucas used ALL his Star Wars movies to try to advance the cinematic craft. Digital is just another tool. I think for Lucas, whether he puts a stromtrooper on screen using a man in a physical suit or a man in a motion-capture digital suit, it doesn't matter. Both are fake. As John Knoll pointed out, the stormtrooper costumes in ANH are far less detailed than fans remember. They're fake. The TFA stormtroopers are a more detailed fake. The CG troopers are a different kind of fake. It's all fake.

As for the "overload your senses," I'm old enough to have heard those same complaints about the OT. Really. It's not like accusing Lucas of relying too heavily of fakery is anything new. I remember fans complaining Empire and Jedi relied too heavily on matte paintings, muppets and blue screen that looked fake (which, especially when it comes to Cloud City is why they added windows and other details during the SEs). Really, we're just making subjective opinions based on personal tastes. I honestly think most people who complain about CG in the PT have no actual idea what is CG and what isn't -- which is what Doug Chaing pointed out about some people thinking Episode I was "all digital." IMHO, I think for many people (not necessarily you) complaining about the CG in the PT is a catch-all bag for every other hyperbolic complaint about the films. There is also a huge double standard involved. If Lucas had made TFA and used a digital Falcon, there would be people whining that he didn't use a "real" miniature as God intended. For my part, for all their flaws, the PT had guts. They were inventive. They took risks. To quote Teddy Roosevelt, "They dared greatly." They tried to expand the SW universe and the cinematic art instead of being an unimaginative rehash of stuff we've seen before. TFA is a fun but cowardly film built on a lot of tears and soiled diapers. Which doesn't mean others aren't entitled to like it.

BTW, every filmmaker jokes, "We'll fix it in post." That's not a sin. That's just a tongue-in-cheek acknowledgment that time and money on film sets are finite. In other words, "We could keep shooting for another 12 hours to get the shot perfect and spend another $300,000 a day to keep the crew here instead of going on to the next location, but we'll just have to find a solution later." Here's the perfect OT example: Obi-Wan's death. They tried to get a "practical" effect to work, but it didn't and they ran out of time on that set. They had to "fix it in post." At the time, the "fix" was do it editorially, but time marches on and now filmmakers can make a fix like that digitally. It's not a crime to do that. It's not laziness. It's not an affront to the fans. It's just moviemaking.

Bottom line: If people like the film, CG is fine. If they don't, the CG sucks.
 
I thank George for where we are now,....I honestly do,...but I wish he hadn't had relied so much on his digital animators for Ep 2 & 3,....I really think he pushed them to the limit & it shows,...that with the weak storytelling & direction will demote these films to the bottom of the Star Wars favourites for most people.....The difference between them & TPM is astounding,...it looks lovely,...although it could do with a better BD transfer

George also will pay the price of pushing the boundaries with these two films when/if the films get a 4k release, as they were shot & produced at around 2k....whereas the movies on film are future proofed (sans the SE additions)

It is a shame,...there are positives & negatives,....but to me the new direction of Lucasfilm is a bit more positive

J
 
The new internet trend seems to find something to whine about ANY new Star Wars movie....wait and see all the childish complains about Rogue One. It gets really old.
 
Watching the falcon clumsily take off from jakku or crash land on the starkiller base made my skin crawl.
Agreed. Actually i found a lot of the ship animation in TFA unnatural looking. The falcon was very clumsy as you put it.

Conversely Ep1 is has to be one of the most stunning looking films of the whole saga. Clearly it had so much love poured into it. The miniature work is the art at its pinnacle IMO. Sure the character CG can be a bit suspect but one must consider when it was made.


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
Awesome stuff...Greeble HEAVEN!
Bildschirmfoto 2016-07-19 um 10.21.17.png

Dam, I wish we had access to that Library :p
 
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I thank George for where we are now,....I honestly do,...but I wish he hadn't had relied so much on his digital animators for Ep 2 & 3,....I really think he pushed them to the limit & it shows,...that with the weak storytelling & direction will demote these films to the bottom of the Star Wars favourites for most people.....The difference between them & TPM is astounding,...it looks lovely,...although it could do with a better BD transfer

George also will pay the price of pushing the boundaries with these two films when/if the films get a 4k release, as they were shot & produced at around 2k....whereas the movies on film are future proofed (sans the SE additions)

It is a shame,...there are positives & negatives,....but to me the new direction of Lucasfilm is a bit more positive

J

weird thing--the digital cameras that they used for AOTC and ROTS filmed at 1080p, so not even 2K, which is surprising.

I don't really have a problem with the CG in the prequels, they were great for the time, but the worst parts of the prequels aren't the CG, it's the script, it might be cringeworthy to have Anakin trying to balance on top of a cow with a huge ass but that's what George put into the script.

I'm fine with how things look in TFA, but I do lament that Star Wars movies aren't the standard anymore by which other effects are compared, the most groundbreaking thing they did for the movie was BB-8 which wouldn't have been a big deal for one of the previous movies because they each were pushing things really far.
 
Likes and dislikes aside, did anyone notice the parts map they were using for the Falcon? Wasn't that born here on the RPF from a member? It sure looked familiar!

As far as the effects go, I'll respect their decisions because right or wrong, there is passion going into these movies and it's their property- we just play in it and hang around the table waiting for table scraps!!

I felt sold on the effects in TFA and I think that was a result of not only VFX work, but VFX married with a good tone, story pace, and camera angles. It felt very down-to-earth compared to the prequels.

Although I never try to judge too much, my first reaction to Rogue One was, "A Mark 1 SD! Sweet! Wait! Mk 1's don't have lights!!!???".

After hearing Knowle's explanation about striking between what was, and what people remember, I get it. The bulk of casual fans would be asking why the SD's in Rogue One don't have lights because in two of the three OT movies they did. That's what 90% of audience members will see, so you gear to that!
 
weird thing--the digital cameras that they used for AOTC and ROTS filmed at 1080p, so not even 2K, which is surprising.

I don't really have a problem with the CG in the prequels, they were great for the time, but the worst parts of the prequels aren't the CG, it's the script, it might be cringeworthy to have Anakin trying to balance on top of a cow with a huge ass but that's what George put into the script.

I'm fine with how things look in TFA, but I do lament that Star Wars movies aren't the standard anymore by which other effects are compared, the most groundbreaking thing they did for the movie was BB-8 which wouldn't have been a big deal for one of the previous movies because they each were pushing things really far.

Yep Uncle George was keen to top each film,....SW has a space battle finale (1),....ESB had a lightsaber & Rescue Han/Escape from Bespin finale (2),....RotJ had Space Battle, Endor Battle and Lightsaber Battle finale (3),....TPM had Lightsaber Battle, Droid/Gungan Ground Assault, Anakin Space Battle & Padme/Panaka get control of Theed Battle (4) & introduce a main character as a Digital creation...AotC one of the first big production Digital films,....RotS,.....um.....

But yeah, always pushing the frontiers,....without him, where would we be,.....we have Digital cinemas now with easier distribution,.....(back when Star Wars came out I had to wait till Jan '78, until UK got the film),....High end Digital cameras (Red etc),....mo-cap etc

It's a shame that the 2 Digital Prequel films are stuck at around 2k,...but I suppose that progress has to start somewhere

J

- - - Updated - - -

Likes and dislikes aside, did anyone notice the parts map they were using for the Falcon? Wasn't that born here on the RPF from a member? It sure looked familiar!

As far as the effects go, I'll respect their decisions because right or wrong, there is passion going into these movies and it's their property- we just play in it and hang around the table waiting for table scraps!!

I felt sold on the effects in TFA and I think that was a result of not only VFX work, but VFX married with a good tone, story pace, and camera angles. It felt very down-to-earth compared to the prequels.

Although I never try to judge too much, my first reaction to Rogue One was, "A Mark 1 SD! Sweet! Wait! Mk 1's don't have lights!!!???".

After hearing Knowle's explanation about striking between what was, and what people remember, I get it. The bulk of casual fans would be asking why the SD's in Rogue One don't have lights because in two of the three OT movies they did. That's what 90% of audience members will see, so you gear to that!

The John Knoll video has been mentioned on the 5 foot part id thread in the Studio Scale section.....congrats to everyone involved there for all that research which ILM have appreciated

J
 
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