Stranger Things (Netflix)

Gimpdiggity · Nov 2, 2017

joshvanrad said:
I felt like S1 left a ton of unanswered questions that S2 could deal with- What is going on between Hopper and Joyce?

I think they answered this one...Hopper basically moved to the woods to hide Eleven and Joyce met Bob.

Its pretty clearly implied that there's something between them, and I'm guessing we'll see that come to fruition in one of the future seasons, but in the context of this season they both prioritized things...Joyce needed someone there for her and Hopper clearly couldn't be that dude, what with trying to keep Eleven safe and all.

joshvanrad said:
What happened to Eleven?

She got out of the Upside Down by opening one of the portals that had popped up.

joshvanrad said:
What happened to Dr. Brenner?

It was pretty clearly stated that he's still alive by the guy that Eleven and Eight are trying to kill.

joshvanrad said:
What were in those eggs that Hopper saw in the upside down?

Not answered. Maybe Demodogs?

joshvanrad said:
How would the cover-up of the Hawkins Lab start to come apart when Will suddenly comes back to life... after being seen by dozens of people?

It was explained off that Will was lost in the woods. Characters made several mentions of all the paperwork they had to sign...most likely non-disclosure agreements and such. Hopper then makes mention of the deal they made...Department of Dnergy stays out of Hawkins and he stays quiet.

Ultimately it it all falls apart when Jonathan and Nancy go to the reporter, but the initial cover up was pretty well covered.

joshvanrad said:
How was he able to communicate with the real world while he was in the upside down?

Not answered...not even mentioned.

joshvanrad said:
How Eleven opened the gate?

Wasn't this answered in season 1? The gate opened when Eleven made contact with the monster in that weird place she goes to when she closes her eyes and concentrates.

joshvanrad said:
What created the upside down?

I see this one a lot, and I fail to see the point of even trying to answer it. It just exists...just like our reality just exists. The kids even refer to the monsters as "interdimensional" beings. If it's from a different, somewhat paralll universe to our own, then it was created the same way our universe was created...

joshvanrad said:
How would they handle the Nancy Wheeler love triangle?

I thought that was pretty well explained. She chose Jonathan and Steve kinda saw it coming so he wasn't surprised.

Now, some of those questions may not have been answered the way you had wanted them to be answered, but most of them were answered. One thing to keep in mind is that when they did season 1 they had no clue how it would be received so they had to create a story that could be wrapped up and exist on its own. Sure, they left a few questions to work with for if they got another season, but that season was mostly something that could stand alone without ever being expanded on at all.

Now, though, they've said they're shooting for four total seasons, so they have to keep a few tricks up their sleeves...and knowing this I'm glad that there were a few things that still are shrouded in mystery. Those eggs, Dr Brenner, Hopper and Joyce's relationship...those are all things that they can address going forward. If they'd have answered everything this season then there wouldn't be an awful lot to use going forward.

I'm not trying to discount your opinion, and I certainly understand what you're saying. I think, though, that this season much more than the first was set up to be part of a larger overall story.

Gimpdiggity · Nov 2, 2017

Axlotl said:
I think it was Hopper just preparing for the possibility of Eleven finding her way out on her own.

I think that would have been completely unnecessary as part of the story if they were planning on having her stuck in there.

Axlotl said:
Well, you wouldn't be hearing it from me, because that's what I wanted and what I expected.
I feel like I'm the only person in the world right now with an imagination, who can imagine an alternative to the season 2 we got.
Can you really not see how awesome it would have been to have the boys braving the terrors of the upside-down to rescue their friend?
No? Just me? Okay...

Honestly, I feel that wouldn't have been a very good story. I feel it also would've downplayed Eleven's powers...a girl like her doesn't need no saving!!!!

Just my opinion, though.

joshvanrad · Nov 2, 2017

We couldn't be on more different wavelengths

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Bones_68 · Nov 2, 2017

Yeah, it's weird. I liked a lot of individual things about this season and I give the writers credit for trying to branch out and add scope. But I think Axlotl is right to suggest they whiffed on the most appealing aspect of the whole show, which is seeing the boys together with Eleven going on an adventure to defeat the upside-down. To me, the adults in the series are fine but they're not nearly as interesting as the dynamic between those kids.

In a way, isn't this always the issue with shows that get the chance to produce more seasons? They start off strong because they figure one season may be all they get. Then the thing becomes a big success and they have no choice but to pad out the initial concept.

I still think we got a lot of cool, fun things this season but I hope they wrap it up with season three and go out on a high note.

Gimpdiggity · Nov 2, 2017

Dem Bones said:
In a way, isn't this always the issue with shows that get the chance to produce more seasons? They start off strong because they figure one season may be all they get. Then the thing becomes a big success and they have no choice but to pad out the initial concept.

Pretty much.

You also end end up with people having expectations for what the future of the series will bring, and if it's anything less than exactly what they are hoping for they view it as a failure.

I've done that plenty of times...I had the second season of "Mr Robot" all set up in my head and when the second season wasn't what I was hoping for I was really disappointed. Same with video games, in particular "Halo 5."

Maybe I'm lucky in that I went into this season wanting nothing more than another good story with these great characters. There was nothing that I really wanted to happen or see, so I was able to just enjoy it for what it was.

joshvanrad · Nov 2, 2017

I think James Gunn was the one who said something like "films should be able to stand on their own" when referencing what the GotG trilogy would be like. What he was getting at is that series films should work on an individual basis, and in the context of the trilogy. TV series should work in the same fashion. Arcs should start and finish within the season, but there should be overarching themes that get tied together with each passing season. I think a lot of the things being talked about are arcs that were missed in this season. This season can't stand on it's own at all. It makes it seem sloppy. That's exactly where season 1 excelled. Season one had a content ending. Not that they solved everything and answered every single question, but it was an ending that made sense and felt like closure. They could have kept going or finished there and it would have worked either way. Season 2 did not have that feeling.

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Axlotl · Nov 2, 2017

Gimpdiggity said:
Honestly, I feel that wouldn't have been a very good story.

Yah, 'cause supernatural adventures with kiddos are soooo lame, and not '80s at all...

Gimpdiggity said:
I feel it also would've downplayed Eleven's powers...a girl like her doesn't need no saving!!!

Of course she does. The poor girl's been isolated and abused all her life. She doesn't even know how to be a human being.
The theme of season 1 was friendship. I wanted to see the kids repay her sacrifice by risking their all to save their friend.

Like I said, apparently I'm the only one in the world who feels this way.
Glad you enjoyed it.
I didn't.

Gimpdiggity · Nov 2, 2017

joshvanrad said:
I think James Gunn was the one who said something like "films should be able to stand on their own" when referencing what the GotG trilogy would be like. What he was getting at is that series films should work on an individual basis, and in the context of the trilogy. TV series should work in the same fashion. Arcs should start and finish within the season, but there should be overarching themes that get tied together with each passing season. I think a lot of the things being talked about are arcs that were missed in this season. This season can't stand on it's own at all. It makes it seem sloppy. That's exactly where season 1 excelled. Season one had a content ending. Not that they solved everything and answered every single question, but it was an ending that made sense and felt like closure. They could have kept going or finished there and it would have worked either way. Season 2 did not have that feeling.

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Like @Dem Bones said, don't we see this fairly often with TV shows, though??

Writers and creators put together a single season that gets tied up relatively nicely because they aren't sure they're even going to get a chance to do a second season. With that unknown they give us a story that has a start, a middle, and an "end," while also leaving a few plot points open in satisfying ways for if they are afforded the opportunity to do a second season.

Then when they get renewed they start working on an overall story to tell, and in this case it's pretty clear that they are setting up their story to be told over at least one more, possibly two more, seasons.

Gimpdiggity · Nov 2, 2017

Axlotl said:
Yah, 'cause supernatural adventures with kiddos are soooo lame, and not '80s at all...

Yah, 'cause I said supernatural adventures with kiddos are lame and not 80s at all.

I said I didn't think it would be a good story.

If Will could survive on his own in the Upside Down, then CLEARLY Eleven could. Will survived with no ability to fight the monsters. Eleven could KILL said monsters. She'd be in very little danger in there.

There also would be no mystery as to how to get her out. They already know how to get someone out, because, remember? They've already gotten someone out. Someone who is, according to what we've seen, much less strong than our favorite super powered girl.

Axlotl said:
Of course she does. The poor girl's been isolated and abused all her life. She doesn't even know how to be a human being.
The theme of season 1 was friendship. I wanted to see the kids repay her sacrifice by risking their all to save their friend.

Thats a completely different type of "saving" than the physical saving that it seems you've been implying.

Axlotl said:
Like I said, apparently I'm the only one in the world who feels this way.
Glad you enjoyed it.
I didn't.

You're probably not alone at all...several others have expressed disappointment in the season.

***EDIT***

I hope I'm not coming off as being argumentative, I'm just enjoying the discussion as nobody I talk to in the real world has anything interesting to say about movies or TV.

firesprite · Nov 2, 2017

joshvanrad said:
Ok, so here we go. Negative nancy inbound...

If you haven't read my posts about S1, you should know that S1 of Stranger Things is one of my all-time favorite pieces of moving pictures on any scale. It hit all the right notes for me. I was beyond excited for S2. I felt like S1 left a ton of unanswered questions that S2 could deal with- What is going on between Hopper and Joyce? What happened to Eleven? What happened to Dr. Brenner? What were in those eggs that Hopper saw in the upside down? How would the cover-up of the Hawkins Lab start to come apart when Will suddenly comes back to life... after being seen by dozens of people? How was he able to communicate with the real world while he was in the upside down? How Eleven opened the gate? What created the upside down? How would they handle the Nancy Wheeler love triangle? Etc.

It introduced so many enticing questions that I couldn't wait to find the answers to. It may have dealt with some of those questions, but a lot of the explanations fell short with me, and even more of them just went completely unnoticed. S1 brought up so much content that they could have kept a linear story going and it would have had enough content. The introduction of the new characters missed the mark with me. It seemed like they added in characters just to add in new characters. They did a handful of things that really didn't play into the story. S1 was put together in a way that it seemed like every setup had it's payoff, or it introduced a plot-thickening question. In S2 things just sort of happened(?)
To explain what I mean I'll go into spoilers...

Max and Billy just kind of were there. They didn't really serve any purpose to the story and they didn't really add any meaningful arc. I kept waiting for them to reveal they were a part of the Hawkins Lab, or Russian spies, or Max would be another test subject. But the season ended and it turns out they were just kind of kids that were also there. Billy didn't do ANYTHING, and Max was just there as a love interest to create another love triangle. A second love triangle seemed redundant.

Bob was just sort of there, too. I loved the character of Bob. I thought he was a cool archetype to add in, but he didn't serve any purpose to the story. He didn't make any impact on anybody and he was basically immediately forgotten the instant he died. I felt like they could have avoided having him in there entirely, and focused on the Joyce and Hopper dynamic a lot more. I thought that was a huge missed opportunity. Joyce and Hopp just had this huge life-defining moment together where they were rescuing Will from the upside down. Hopper was having flashbacks to his previous family. I expected that all to lead to something a bit more. It never did. NEXT!

Having Eleven locked away for an entire season seemed like a waste of a huge character. I know they basically gave her her own episode (maybe to account for having her bottled up for the whole season?) but we'll get into S2E7 later. They had so much character building they could have done with Eleven. They could have done so much with her. They could have had her working on getting out of the upside down through the gate, but instead she just kind of walks out a few minutes after she was transported back there. It felt sort of thin on storytelling. They also had an entire season of opportunities to show how she'd have to be integrated into society once she found her way out of the upside down. Also, how the group has a new friend that basically has super-powers.

They never really dealt with the main villain. They kept showing him in the upside down and in Will's visions, but he was never anything more than that. The demodogs evolution was interesting but it ultimately seemed like it never led anywhere. They setup all of these bad guys with the Hawkins Lab, The Mindflayer, and the Demodogs and it all just kind of ends without major repercussions. The only memorable death was Bob, and I could have done without him anyhow, so it seemed like there were just no stakes. In S1 I was always nervous about the Demogorgon. It felt like he was always just a few inches away from any character at any given time. You never knew where he was going to strike, or what would happen when he did.

S2E7!!! What was that? Seriously... wha- just why. Why? Was that a thing... I just...
Ok, so I know I said I wanted more of Eleven in S2, but that seemed really forced. That was the most boring season of the whole season. It was just kind of there. Eleven goes on a fun trip, does some stuff, and then she comes back with a different hairstyle.... and that's about it. You could cut out that whole episode and it wouldn't play any part in the overarching themes or story of the entire season. It did nothing. They could have put some throwaway scenes in other episodes, just sprinkled in, to let us know her powers are getting stronger and she can focus it when she's angry. We already knew both of those things already, but they could have done a few more scenes to make it more evident. We definitely didn't need an entire hour straight dedicated to it. And the lost sister thing didn't impact that story either. I thought they were going to do something really interesting where maybe they'd have to unite a bunch of test subject kids together to defeat the villain. Instead, you just had a few more character come and go without playing any real part in the season-long arc.

The Nancy Wheeler love triangle. I liked where it went last year where it was a little more understated. This year they pumped up the love triangle to 10... and then it just kind of ended. Again, with no consequences. Steve is just like "whatever, I'll teach this kid how to do his hair." and Jon and Nance didn't really seem to have any spark anyhow. They didn't seem to have an interesting love story. I liked the narrative of the jock and the book worm of S1, and how the jock fell into the typical archetype at the start of the season, but grew out of it by the end. None of those 3 characters really had any growth over this season. They were essentially the same at the end of the season as they were at the start. I'm not big into romance novels, but I think a love triangle is supposed to serve as a device to complete the arc for all characters involved.

I'm of the mind that everything should be setup and eventually you get your payoff. In this season it seems like there were just a handful of aspects that weren't entirely fleshed out, and certain things just happened without consequence.

I know it might seem like I hated the season. I didn't. I just had really high expectations after S1 and I thought they missed a lot of opportunities for cool storytelling in S2. The reason I'm ragging on it so hard is because I see the potential behind it, and I think it fell far short of the mark. I'd say if you liked S1 then you should watch S2 because you will see some pretty cool moments. It just isn't polished to the bright shining finish of S1. Watch S2 and make up your own mind. For me, I'll always watch S1 like it's own standalone movie. It plays out like a perfect scifi horror movie with nostalgic elements over the course of 8 hours. S2 is more messy and doesn't tie things up quite as neatly in the end.

There are two more seasons of this show to come. They can't answer all of the questions in season 2. And, honestly, I feel like it would be cheap if they did.

The Nancy/Steve/Jonathan love triangle, I think, will no longer be a thing after this season. Nancy and Steve pretty much outgrew eachother. Steve got that before Nancy did, which was why he was all 'whatever' when she got pissy at him at school and seemed to get over the break up quickly.

As was mentioned elsewhere, Hopper found 11 and moved into the middle of BFE. Joyce hooked up with Bob who had a thing for her since high school, and who was, IMO, a pretty awesome dude. He genuinely wanted to be a good guy for her and a good dad for Will and Jonathan. If nothing else, I think that's important. It shows these boys that adult men can still be kind people after their uber-dousche of a father.

Anyway... Like I said, we've still got a couple of seasons to get the rest of the answers. Just be patient.

Gimpdiggity · Nov 2, 2017

firesprite said:
There are two more seasons of this show to come. They can't answer all of the questions in season 2. And, honestly, I feel like it would be cheap if they did.

The Nancy/Steve/Jonathan love triangle, I think, will no longer be a thing after this season. Nancy and Steve pretty much outgrew eachother. Steve got that before Nancy did, which was why he was all 'whatever' when she got pissy at him at school and seemed to get over the break up quickly.

As was mentioned elsewhere, Hopper found 11 and moved into the middle of BFE. Joyce hooked up with Bob who had a thing for her since high school, and who was, IMO, a pretty awesome dude. He genuinely wanted to be a good guy for her and a good dad for Will and Jonathan. If nothing else, I think that's important. It shows these boys that adult men can still be kind people after their uber-dousche of a father.

Anyway... Like I said, we've still got a couple of seasons to get the rest of the answers. Just be patient.

Couldn't agree more!!

SethS · Nov 2, 2017

Well if we’re in wishin’ and pitchin’ mode... I agree with both of you.

I think an entire season searching the upside down would have been overkill— but they went there anyway so a little bit wouldn’t have been bad. I also wasn’t a fan of Eleven being put away for most of the season since they couldn’t figure out how to make her work in the context of the group.

What I would have liked is a starting point like we got— they’ve resumed their lives, there’s a new girl messing with the group dynamic, Will is trying to be normal. Mike misses Eleven. Will’s problem gets worse, just like what we got— and they realize because he was used by the demigorgon to reproduce, he’s still got a connection the the upside down.

That’s the first three episodes. Keep Nancy and Jonathan’s jam.

Using Will’s connection they are able to find another back door into the upside down, they go in and find Eleven and bring her out.

That’s a couple episodes.

Once Eleven is out, Will doesn’t get better. Eleven is also powerless for whatever reason. They realize they alerted the demi-dogs or whatevers to the new gate and they are loose in town and causing trouble. They avoid the lab cause they don’t want Elle to be picked apart again, so they hunt down the demidogs on their own.

Just a little of everything. I just didn’t love that new big ground was gained in S2, and all the characters were reacting to things instead of being active.

That said, I love the characters and perfomances so much, it bought a lot of leeway with me.

Clutch · Nov 3, 2017

Get ready for Stranger X-Men.

Laspector · Nov 3, 2017

I've been watching all kinds of interviews with them on Youtube from talkshows and stuff. Odd that you never see the guy who plays Jonathan anywhere.

OldKen · Nov 3, 2017

It was fun and great. But it was at 90% awesome vs season1's 99% awesome imho.

All this "fan service" yet we don't get to see the kids reunite till the last episode and it feels rushed and forced.

Sandman0077 · Nov 3, 2017

Laspector said:
I've been watching all kinds of interviews with them on Youtube from talkshows and stuff. Odd that you never see the guy who plays Jonathan anywhere.

That's because he was stopped at LAX for cocaine traces on his luggage, forcing him to return to London. That's why he missed the premier and hasn't been doing interviews in the US.

Laspector · Nov 3, 2017

No foolin'? .....wow...

Sundowner · Nov 3, 2017

So I’ve been playing the mobile and noticed a few nods to season 2. But I may have missed something about Max...

Each character has a special ability (slingshot for
Lucas, flashlight for Mike but Max has a Psychic Blast as her ability. Was this addressed?!

SethS · Nov 3, 2017

I also thought that was a really odd choice.

Gimpdiggity · Nov 3, 2017

Sundowner said:
So I’ve been playing the mobile and noticed a few nods to season 2. But I may have missed something about Max...

Each character has a special ability (slingshot for
Lucas, flashlight for Mike but Max has a Psychic Blast as her ability. Was this addressed?!
View attachment 770951

Might have stumbled on a hint of things to come for her character...

Stranger Things (Netflix)

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