Rinzler's Making of The Force Awakens

as a few people have already mentioned why don't they just re - edit the book.
frankly at this stage i'm not really interested in reading bout all the behind scenes action which sort of reflects my view of the film.
but what i really want to see is tons of glorious large colour pix of the hardware,sets,concept models and costumes.
there seems to be a lack of good reference material on the film....so far
 
Um, no Jason. TFA destroyed anything Lucas has made since 1983. When you hVe made the 3rd largest grossing film of all time vs. a story treatment that was never made there is no way to prove that point as it's totally subjective and based on the PT exceedingly unlikely. It's ok if you didn't like TFA but it was a massive success objectively.

Kim Kardashian makes a ton of money. That doesn't mean she's a great person. Money doesn't equal greatness. There are SW games and books that were 20 times better than TFA. I'm glad you liked it, but it's an average SW story at best.
 
So many assumptions being made here, so little facts.

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Kim Kardashian makes a ton of money. That doesn't mean she's a great person. Money doesn't equal greatness. There are SW games and books that were 20 times better than TFA. I'm glad you liked it, but it's an average SW story at best.

And that's just all just matter of opinion too. It's subjective, not science. Of course. Your opinion doesn't equal facts either.
 
I didn't say it did. I'm just arguing because since TFA, the RPF groupthink (and fan sites in general) tries to reinforce that the Prequels were awful, so don't praise them. TFA is the most awesome SW movie ever made, and don't dare say otherwise. Also "ALL" SW fans are in lock step that TFA is awesome. It's just not true about the Prequels or TFA.
 
So many assumptions being made here, so little facts.

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And that's just all just matter of opinion too. It's subjective, not science. Of course. Your opinion doesn't equal facts either.
Honestly, I don't think quality in film is as subjective as people say. Enjoyment is the subjective part.

Animal house
Das boot
Blade runner
Cities kane
Casablanca
the godfather
the empire strikes back.



These are all proven masterpieces in film. No one would argue this

Because the artistic use of Film theory isn't that subjective.

That's a completely different conversation than whether or not someone enjoyed joe dirt (I did)

And personally, the film of The Force Awakens is an absolute mess of a film. Now, even though it's much more enjoyable than the Phantom menace, I think the prequel is actually a better movie. And as I've said many times before, the worst parts of the prequels still belong to a visionary.

The worst parts of the force awakens are the same worse parts that we've seen over and over again.

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I think you're missing the point, although that's not surprising given how we all talk about film and works of entertainment.

There's "good" as in "well crafted in an objective, artistic sense" and there's "good" as in "personally entertaining in a subjective sense."

Film, as an art form, just like most forms of storytelling, uses certain artistic techniques in its creation. Some films use these tools more effectively than others, so that -- even if you strip out your own aesthetic appreciation for the piece -- you can see that one film is better-crafted than another.

The statement above is that TFA -- however enjoyable and financially successful -- is objectively not as well-crafted as the prequels. I think we can debate that point, but I understand what astroboy is getting at, and I think either side could make a decent case.

All that aside, I found TFA way more enjoyable than the prequels.


What I think Disney/LFL was ultimately trying to do was to create a film that would be more enjoyable and profitable and they were less concerned with perfecting the artistic execution of those goals. In other words, the twin goals of enjoyment and profit took precedence over artistic execution.

That, I think, is pretty much undeniable when you watch the film. The goal in many cases is not whether the artistic goal has been achieved, but rather whether the experience was enjoyable. Take Finn and Poe's introduction and compare it to their reunion later in the film. They react in their second meeting as if they're best friends and have been for years, but the film didn't really "earn" that reaction. That's an example of an artistic failure. If you're going to build a friendship between two characters, you need to do the legwork to really establish that.

...but most people in the audience don't care, and simply accept that these two are best buds because they occupy the position of two people who we know are supposed to be best buds and the actors are good enough with their reactions that we believe they really are, even though the film itself hasn't done a ton to establish that relationship.

Ultimately, this is what Disney wanted. they don't care how they get you to the point of believing "These guys are friends." As long as you get there and have a fun ride along the way, that's what matters (to Disney/LFL).
 
Star Wars is and should be popcorn pulp trash with a certain style.
You are barking up the wrong tree to start worrying about it's artistic merit.
TFA was sloppy and creatively vacant during a lot of it's running time - but it was familiar, fun and had heart throughout - that is what Lucasfilm wanted - end of.
 
This conversation just spreads from one thread to another,....just said different ways

But back to the book,....I'd say that the main delay would be the concern of giving away thought processes & spoilers for the next films,....remember we had to wait 30 years for the OT books,....It's too soon to do a real in depth study of TFA

J
 
Star Wars is and should be popcorn pulp trash with a certain style.
You are barking up the wrong tree to start worrying about it's artistic merit.
TFA was sloppy and creatively vacant during a lot of it's running time - but it was familiar, fun and had heart throughout - that is what Lucasfilm wanted - end of.

I disagree, actually. I think all movies should strive to be well constructed when doing so would not otherwise come at the expense of entertainment.

Of all the possible criticisms against TFA, I think the biggest is that the push for SO much constant action hampered the development of the characters and forced the film to rely on shorthand. As I've said elsewhere, I think the film needed room to breathe more and allow moments to hit. Rey weeping openly at Han's death, for example, didn't make a ton of sense given the relationship we saw between them. It didn't seem as close as Luke and Obi-Wan. But Rey's really just a stand-in for the audience in that moment, so the shorthand works. Still, they could've cut the whole sequence with the Rathtars and bought themselves another 10-ish minutes to actually do character development or explain ANYTHING going on with the state of the galaxy. Even that small amount would've done wonders.
 
This conversation just spreads from one thread to another,....just said different ways

But back to the book,....I'd say that the main delay would be the concern of giving away thought processes & spoilers for the next films,....remember we had to wait 30 years for the OT books,....It's too soon to do a real in depth study of TFA

J

People seem to forget that ROTS had a "Making of..." book from Rinzler. I don't know how in depth it was but I'm pretty sure it came out around the time the movie came out.
 
I disagree, actually. I think all movies should strive to be well constructed when doing so would not otherwise come at the expense of entertainment.

Of all the possible criticisms against TFA, I think the biggest is that the push for SO much constant action hampered the development of the characters and forced the film to rely on shorthand. As I've said elsewhere, I think the film needed room to breathe more and allow moments to hit. Rey weeping openly at Han's death, for example, didn't make a ton of sense given the relationship we saw between them. It didn't seem as close as Luke and Obi-Wan. But Rey's really just a stand-in for the audience in that moment, so the shorthand works. Still, they could've cut the whole sequence with the Rathtars and bought themselves another 10-ish minutes to actually do character development or explain ANYTHING going on with the state of the galaxy. Even that small amount would've done wonders.

Yeah they did great with Fin and Poe when they first meet and escape together to establish their bond but then that suffers when Poe is dropped from the film until the resistance base. On the flip side Fin and Rey have those opportunities to really establish their relationship well as they are given moments that are not driven by action.

Anyway, back on topic, yes I think fear of revealing story elements that are yet to be used is a concern regarding this book.
 
People seem to forget that ROTS had a "Making of..." book from Rinzler. I don't know how in depth it was but I'm pretty sure it came out around the time the movie came out.

Yep 2005,...but ROTS was the end of the trilogy,.....no future plot ideas to reveal

J
 
Honestly, I don't think quality in film is as subjective as people say. Enjoyment is the subjective part.
---
Because the artistic use of Film theory isn't that subjective.

That's a completely different conversation than whether or not someone enjoyed joe dirt (I did)

I completely and wholeheartedly agree !!! Because I´ve been saying that in a lot of discussions about film.

...
And personally, the film of The Force Awakens is an absolute mess of a film. Now, even though it's much more enjoyable than the Phantom menace, I think the prequel is actually a better movie. And as I've said many times before, the worst parts of the prequels still belong to a visionary.
...

And there you are, IMO doing a complete 180 :lol :lol :lol TFA, from a film theoretical and storytelling POV is a much, much better movie than any of the PT movies are. Even GL himself said that he´d abandonded tried and proven storytelling by going more with a "jazz like style", where the visual elements and experience is much, much more important (to him as an "auteur") than working dialogue and actor direction e.g. character developments and working plots - he knowingly accepted plot holes and expected the fans to fill them in all by themselves.

TFA is much, much more "traditional" or "conservative" in terms of all of the above, but they HAD to. I do not think that GL could have pulled off another PT stunt of "I do those movies just for myself, if I have to suffer whilst making them I do them just as I want them." Source for this: Chris Taylor -How Star Wars Conquered the Universe: The Past, Present, and Future of a Multibillion Dollar Franchise".

But I digress. I am very curious about the book and its content, I really enjoyed the ESB book that I read from front to back but already forgot about 99 percent of what I read. Since TFA is something completely new in terms of HOW the director went about building it up from the ground I am really curious how its inception compares to the OT. By the way, Making of the PT, what´s with that?
 
I completely and wholeheartedly agree !!! Because I´ve been saying that in a lot of discussions about film.



And there you are, IMO doing a complete 180 :lol :lol :lol TFA, from a film theoretical and storytelling POV is a much, much better movie than any of the PT movies are. Even GL himself said that he´d abandonded tried and proven storytelling by going more with a "jazz like style", where the visual elements and experience is much, much more important (to him as an "auteur") than working dialogue and actor direction e.g. character developments and working plots - he knowingly accepted plot holes and expected the fans to fill them in all by themselves.

TFA is much, much more "traditional" or "conservative" in terms of all of the above, but they HAD to. I do not think that GL could have pulled off another PT stunt of "I do those movies just for myself, if I have to suffer whilst making them I do them just as I want them." Source for this: Chris Taylor -How Star Wars Conquered the Universe: The Past, Present, and Future of a Multibillion Dollar Franchise".

But I digress. I am very curious about the book and its content, I really enjoyed the ESB book that I read from front to back but already forgot about 99 percent of what I read. Since TFA is something completely new in terms of HOW the director went about building it up from the ground I am really curious how its inception compares to the OT. By the way, Making of the PT, what´s with that?

For sure, George's treatenent was likely just that, the story he wanted to tell without regard of satisfying anyone beyond that and that's a risky proposition for a film designed to relaunch a franchise.
 
For sure, George's treatenent was likely just that, the story he wanted to tell without regard of satisfying anyone beyond that and that's a risky proposition for a film designed to relaunch a franchise.

Exactly. I suspect this is why Disney "wasn't thrilled" by George's treatment. Especially now that he's not surrounded by people and/or budgets reining him in, George tells the stories that George finds interesting, and to hell with everyone else. If you like it, awesome. If not, he doesn't really care. George has one audience, and one audience alone that he really wants to make happy: himself. Even if he's trying to tell a story that he thinks kids will enjoy, or whathaveyou, it's still his singular understanding of what that means.

Disney, on the other hand, was relaunching a franchise that it had just paid several BILLION WITH A "B" dollars for, on the theory that doing so would make it untold billions more. But for that to work, the first film had to be as broadly appealing as possible, and that meant shooting for audience approval rather than whatever the hell George dreamed up, good, bad, or mediocre. Because you can't sell video games, t-shirts, toys, lunchboxes, park rides, Halloween costumes, plush dolls, home media, movie tickets, and beyond if the audience doesn't really like your film. And the first film in a series ultimately buys you several films worth of goodwill.

To put it another way: if your first film is good to great, you can expect that audiences will give you....not quite a pass, but at least the benefit of the doubt for probably 3-4 more films, hoping that you recapture whatever magic you had in the first one. But if you blow the first one, then the audience starts getting skeptical and untrusting, and you have to rely a LOT more on big marketing buys and the underlying strength of your brands. (See also: DCEU)
 
DOH! Looks like this book really has been mothballed, at least for now. Amazon was the last ray of hope listing it with a October 25th release date until just recently. They've now updated to "currently unavailable."
 
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