Rinzler's Making of The Force Awakens


Wow, that's too bad. I can see Lucasfilm wanting to hold off because the book might reveal information about the upcoming films, but that link makes it sound like we may never get the unvarnished Rinzler version of events. That would be a shame since Rinzler excelled at making you feel like a fly on the wall with his original trilogy books. They're the next best thing to jumping in a time machine and being there.
 
To me it sounds like either Lucas' idea was WAAAAAAY better than what we got and Disney doesn't want that to come out, or they just don't want to discuss anything about Lucas not liking what they came up with.
 
To me it sounds like either Lucas' idea was WAAAAAAY better than what we got and Disney doesn't want that to come out, or they just don't want to discuss anything about Lucas not liking what they came up with.

Um, no Jason. TFA destroyed anything Lucas has made since 1983. When you hVe made the 3rd largest grossing film of all time vs. a story treatment that was never made there is no way to prove that point as it's totally subjective and based on the PT exceedingly unlikely. It's ok if you didn't like TFA but it was a massive success objectively.
 
TFA destroyed nothing Lucas has made since 1983 - that's ridiculous. Yes, TFA made a lot of money - but, so did The Phantom Menace. Let's also note that we had three Indiana Jones movies come out after 1983 (and only one of them cracks the Top 100 highest grossing movies worldwide).

It's unfortunate we might never read or see Lucas' treatment; but, Disney seems keen to keep this out of sight. I think a fair guess that his version is at least a bit more original than TFA.
 
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I stand with Lucas.

At one point in the prerelease buzz from TFA they mentiined that they would only release images from the first third of the film. That made me really excited. I wanted to go into the movie and be taken away to somewhere new.

But when I dat in the movie, I was like, where are all the new bits? Waitaminnit....these are all OLD bits. Not on that, but where is that sweeping space opera score that we heard in the trailers???

Lucas may have had missteps in his treatment for epi 7, but they probably would have been interesting.

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I think they don't wanna talk about Lucas treatment ideas because the films WILL have elements of them still to come, which could pose spoilers. This may have nothing to do with this book not being released. They could just simply leave that part out. They have some of it even in The Art of TFA book.
 
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I stand with Lucas.

At one point in the prerelease buzz from TFA they mentiined that they would only release images from the first third of the film. That made me really excited. I wanted to go into the movie and be taken away to somewhere new.

But when I dat in the movie, I was like, where are all the new bits? Waitaminnit....these are all OLD bits. Not on that, but where is that sweeping space opera score that we heard in the trailers???

Lucas may have had missteps in his treatment for epi 7, but they probably would have been interesting.

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Oh I would love to see them and I do t doubt they would have made an interesting story but based on what he has said publicly about his thoughts about a sequel trilogy, I don't think it would have been nearly as well received as TFA and could have have been far more divisive in regards to the fandom.

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If that were true (I don't buy it.), they could simply edit that stuff out.

More to the point it's entirely subjective "if" it would have been "better".
 
Oh I would love to see them and I do t doubt they would have made an interesting story but based on what he has said publicly about his thoughts about a sequel trilogy, I don't think it would have been nearly as well received as TFA and could have have been far more divisive in regards to the fandom.

Yeah, I lean this way as well.


Of course, all of that is a moot point now.


My theory on why the book is being quashed is that (1) it might reveal plot points in future films, and (2) to the extent that there was any drama/dirty laundry in the making of Ep. 7, Disney ain't interested in airing it.

Nor should they be. It's one thing when you're dealing with decade-old (or more) films and providing the behind-the-scenes look, warts and all. It's quite another to reopen what may well be fresh wounds for a film that's not even a year old yet, and where future entries are in the works.
 
We might read Lucas' treatment and we might all think there are better ideas there - we might not have liked the execution of those ideas as much.

I still think the overall stories in the Prequel Trilogy are quite strong - it's how some of those ideas and treatments turned out for the big screen that much of it gets lost.
 
Yeah, I lean this way as well.


Of course, all of that is a moot point now.


My theory on why the book is being quashed is that (1) it might reveal plot points in future films, and (2) to the extent that there was any drama/dirty laundry in the making of Ep. 7, Disney ain't interested in airing it.

Nor should they be. It's one thing when you're dealing with decade-old (or more) films and providing the behind-the-scenes look, warts and all. It's quite another to reopen what may well be fresh wounds for a film that's not even a year old yet, and where future entries are in the works.

Yeah I think the article @Alienscollection linked is likely pretty close to the truth of the matter. Perhaps there is truth to the rumor JJ threatened to walk unless they did a major re-write and brought in Kasdan. Rinzler was there before JJ was bright in and would have been privy to all of that.

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We might read Lucas' treatment and we might all think there are better ideas there - we might not have liked the execution of those ideas as much.

I still think the overall stories in the Prequel Trilogy are quite strong - it's how some of those ideas and treatments turned out for the big screen that much of it gets lost.

I agree, I love the PT but for me TFA is a much stronger film then those three.
 
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My understanding from all the between-the-lines I've been privy to since 2014 or so is that Disney bought Lucasfilm, part of the deal included Disney using the 7-8-9 treatments Lucas had come up with, pre-production ensued, going in that direction (a lot of this is in the art-of book, with younger Sam and Kira and all of that). Around the time Kathleen and the Story Group were reluctantly broaching the fact that the story was... not great... is when Kathleen approached JJ and told him they were going to be round-filing the treatments. That was what clinched it for him -- being able to be in on the story mapping from the blank page stage. I can't remember timeline for the other writers involved, and I don't feel like flexing my Google-fu right now to see, but that was parallel to all this going on on the decision-making level.

All the stuff people complain about -- Kira being the hotshot teenage pilot, scavenger, and mechanic, for instance -- is all there in the treatment. Just Like George's prior protagonists, Luke and Anakin. What can be gleaned of the story evolution from the art-of book alone hints at some of the awkwardness of the choice to ditch George's treatment and try again, using as many of the element from them as they could, so they could say they tired and this was just what it evolved into. As with the finished film, most of it I like. Not a fan of the Resistance or First Order organization names, not a fan of there only being TIE Fighters in evidence, not a fan of the misinterpretations of earlier films that krept into production design of this one... But overall I like it. It's probably number three on my list, after Star Wars and Empire. So they did a lot right, too.

Which is why all of this "controversy" over the making-of book irritates me. Why? Most of this is already public record, from interviews with the principals involved, from the art-of book, etc. And Rinzler has a track record of writing sympathetically toward people whom he could easily just tear apart. I've read all three of his big OT tomes cover to cover, and he never gets anywhere near "dirty laundry" kind of tell-all stuff. He doesn't hide anything germane to the evolution of each film, nothing that affected the outcome is glossed over... But neither does he name-call or cast aspersions. So my feeling is that if there's anything going on with this delay/cancel stuff, it's due to potential story leaks for 8 and/or 9. I need to check in again with my book store, but the last time I did it was still showing an October release. One guy talking to Rinzler said that his Amazon pre-order of the book had been cancelled and his money refunded, but mine through my book store's distributor hasn't been. SO I don't know what the hell's going on.

--Jonah
 
Was Kennedy and Lucasfilm worried about Lucas' story or the accessibility of that story? Meaning - were they worried that Lucas' story just wasn't commercial enough - that it didn't have a simplicity to it that TFA had?
 
From what I've gathered they were more concerned about selling the film and avoiding what was thought to be the downfalls of the Prequels. They wanted older heroes not the young teens that Lucas had running around and saving the Galaxy.

Supposedly, only 3 top Disney execs were privy to the Lucas outline.

Even well regarded writer Michael Arndt worked up a draft that Kathleen and JJ disregarded - it's still unclear whether this was working on George's outline or just had some of the basics of it (young teen stars).

It certainly would be interesting to read just how much inside info Rinzler had access to. Did he have access to the Lucas outline?
 
We might read Lucas' treatment and we might all think there are better ideas there - we might not have liked the execution of those ideas as much.

I still think the overall stories in the sequel Trilogy are quite strong - it's how some of those ideas and treatments turned out for the big screen that much of it gets lost.
Personally, there were miles between the Phantom menace and rots. And then even more miles ahead were the final clone wars seasons.

I imagine that Lucas would have done the prequel trilogy proud. It just took him so long to get back into film making.

And frankly, people always rag Lucas for his "faster and more intense" film making, but that's pretty much all that abrams seems to do

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From what I've gathered they were more concerned about selling the film and avoiding what was thought to be the downfalls of the Prequels. They wanted older heroes not the young teens that Lucas had running around and saving the Galaxy.

Supposedly, only 3 top Disney execs were privy to the Lucas outline.

Even well regarded writer Michael Arndt worked up a draft that Kathleen and JJ disregarded - it's still unclear whether this was working on George's outline or just had some of the basics of it (young teen stars).

It certainly would be interesting to read just how much inside info Rinzler had access to. Did he have access to the Lucas outline?

I think this was their reaction. That's what I meant back when i said they weren't "thrilled" with it. Not that it was bad in and of itself but it wan't the film they wanted to make. And from what Rinzler has said it sounds like he was privy to GL and Arendts treatments, he was certainly there at the time they were being worked on.
 
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