Rinzler's Making of The Force Awakens
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
I doubt Lucas' problem is that big of a deal. It sounded like he was thinking what a lot of us who were disappointed with TFA were thinking. "That's what they came up with?!?!".
JD
Master Member
Please provide something to back up that Disney wasn't "thrilled with his treatments." Everything I've read was more about Kennedy & Co. opting for a "different direction." While I can understand that some might assume that this means they weren't "thrilled" with what Lucas had written - it doesn't really mean that at all.
It is possible that Uncle George had a great idea that just didn't fit with what Disney wanted to do. There is enough out there that said Lucas focused on young characters (teenagers) and Disney wanted an older cast.
Kennedy on Lucas' treatment: "We’ve made some departures - exactly the way you would in any development process."
Lucas on the same: "The ones that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn't really want to do those. So they made up their own. So it's not the ones that I originally wrote..."
The closest we get to Disney not being "thrilled with his treatments" is George's statement with Charlie Rose: ""They weren't that keen to have me involved anyway..." which says nothing about his actual treatments.
This is probably just semantics to some, pedantic to others - but, I think it's an assumption or a poor choice of words. More than that it may have swayed this discussion here in a direction that it really doesn't need to go. ...and either way, Disney didn't use what George had written.
Again, Lucas did seem a bits something (upset? agitated? dismayed? - you decide) in the Charlie Rose interview. "They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that. Every movie, I worked very hard to make them different. I made them completely different - different planets, different spaceships to make it new."
How much of the Lucas treatment belongs in the making of The Force Awakens? As much as I'd love to see what he would've done, ultimately this book is about the finished product... Lucas' involvement (in the story of TFA) seems more of a footnote than a chapter or whatever Rinzler may've written about his treatments.
"Not thrilled" is not an indictment of quality, it's a euphemism for a different direction in how I used it. Which is correct. Disney may or may not have "loved" GL's treatments but they made a narrative and corporate decision to ceate a story that was different from what they bought from GL at the point of sale. Based on Rinzler's comments he likely had a great deal of access to what GL provided and it was a challenge to square that circle. So yes, pedantic and I'm sure most understood the specificity of what I said. And it's something I have been suggesting for a while.
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That's the nature of business. PR is extremely important and the risk is not worth taking. At all. I just spent 3 days at Disneyland and the amount of SW themed attractions, merchandise, and presence is amazing. I saw more SW t-shirts on guest then the Mouse or any other Disney license.
JD
Master Member
Please back up this statement. Because nowhere has there been any indication that Disney was "not thrilled" with Lucas' direction. You can claim "euphemism" if you'd like, but - and perhaps this is pure conjecture on my part - nowhere has Disney stated anything remotely akin to your overstatement.
Solo4114
Master Member
Yeah, I think "not thrilled" is, perhaps, the wrong phrase to use, if only because of the connotations JD points out. I'd say a more precise phrase is "not really interested in." Which, pretty much, Lucas himself says. The end result is the same, though. It's not a question of "This sucks" or "this is amazing." It's more one of "That's not really what we want to do."
Exactly. Would it have a major impact? No, probably not. But it might. You never know. So why take the chance?
We also live in a media culture where ANY bit of news, however insignificant it might seem, can blow up into a major hoopla without ever seeing it coming. All it would take is a slow news cycle plus the release of a "controversial book" that "reveals a major rift between Lucas and Disney" or whatever, and now you're eroding the brand. You want the brand to be bulletproof. You want it to be unassailable. You want it to convey nothing -- NOTHING -- but good things. Towards that end, you do not want ANY bad PR to come out, or even any neutral PR that might be spun out as "bad." Particularly for an ongoing concern where you're going to be trying to move bigger, more expensive, and therefore riskier products (e.g. new movies, especially spinoff/anthology films), you just want positive associations among the public. Nothing negative at all, ever. It's not really possible to remove ALL negative associations (e.g. fans who were annoyed that TFA was "just a rehash of ANH"), but why add to that if you don't have to?
Put another way: I hand you a bottle of an unidentified liquid. I tell you that there's a 98.835% chance that it's just a bland, flavorless liquid of no real nutritional value. I tell you that there's a 1.165% chance that it's a tainted chemical that will make you sick for a few days. It won't kill you, you'll just be in and out of the bathroom A LOT during that time.
Do you drink it? My guess is no. Why? Because there's really no benefit in doing so. There might not be any major harm in doing so, but if there's no benefit and even a 1.165% chance of harm, or even just inconvenience, why bother?
That's about where I'm guessing Disney comes out on this. What do they stand to gain by allowing the release of the book, especially at this stage? Nothing, really. What do they stand to lose? Maybe the brand gets some smudges on it, and they lose a news cycle at a time when they probably want to only have good news coming out. If the book was released at the same time as, like, a new major video game, or the launch of a new season of Rebels, or a remastered DVD or something, then it might dip sales by a fraction. So, you have no real upside, and only possible downside. Why bother?
One other thing worth pointing out: there's already a disgruntled portion of the fanbase out there. Fans who thought Disney did a crappy job with TFA. They aren't a majority, but they're out there. The thing is, right now, most of them are probably at least 70/30 going to see Ep. VIII and the Rogue One film, and maybe the Han Solo film. Basically, they haven't shut the door on the new Star Wars franchise...yet. What if this book comes out and, after reading it, those fans say "No. Screw this. Disney has no idea what it's doing" and they don't even give the newer films a chance? That's a hit to Disney's pocketbook that could have been avoided. So, again, is it a HUGE risk? No, most likely not. But even if it's a small risk of a small impact, there's no real upside for Disney to make that risk worthwhile.
robstyle
Master Member
I posted somewhere before about the file 13 GL scripts. I read the synopsis and opening scene. Unless you want to watch Han and Leia's kids tote around in the Falcon getting into trouble, enjoy what ended up as the new trilogy. With GL scripts out, there were a few other synopsis'. One where Han is off doing his thing, Leia is killed during the opening act by a relic hunter backed by the remnants of the Empire, as the relic hunter is trying to force Luke out of hiding. Han returns to find out what happened and goes out after the guy with the help of others (the new cast)... Obviously that was too dark but much of that synopsis is actually in TFA as a whole.
Just imagine whom we know as Kylo (not Han/Leia's kid Ben) Ren with no real force powers but instead he uses his appearance and backing to intimidate making others believe he actually has powers, he is on a quest to recover ancient to current Jedi/Sith relics for a backer within the remnants of the Empire, he seeks Lukes saber yet his backer wants Luke himself. I believe some of this was leaked early on yet long after what we would come to know as TFA was in full swing. Its at take on the Holy Grail where most view the grail as a cup while others identify the grail as a person. If any of this early stuff makes the book ill be delighted. If they say quite literally GL's scripts were heaved into the garbage ill be shocked. The dude got $4 BILLION dollars when he sold everything. Part of that was he needed a new trilogy and scripts to go with it. They didnt have to be good, just complete. Ill say it again, even if you hate TFA, you wouldnt have liked the other option.
Just imagine whom we know as Kylo (not Han/Leia's kid Ben) Ren with no real force powers but instead he uses his appearance and backing to intimidate making others believe he actually has powers, he is on a quest to recover ancient to current Jedi/Sith relics for a backer within the remnants of the Empire, he seeks Lukes saber yet his backer wants Luke himself. I believe some of this was leaked early on yet long after what we would come to know as TFA was in full swing. Its at take on the Holy Grail where most view the grail as a cup while others identify the grail as a person. If any of this early stuff makes the book ill be delighted. If they say quite literally GL's scripts were heaved into the garbage ill be shocked. The dude got $4 BILLION dollars when he sold everything. Part of that was he needed a new trilogy and scripts to go with it. They didnt have to be good, just complete. Ill say it again, even if you hate TFA, you wouldnt have liked the other option.
Well we know Lucas had a penchant for going back to ideas from early drafts. In one of the early ANH drafts Luke was a girl, so it makes sense to try that, especially if you wanted to change it up since the first trilogy was a boy hero.
Some of what Rob posted also makes sense, if it was from Lucas' ideas, because some of those things were TFA rumors very early, like the thing with the Sith relic collector.
Some of what Rob posted also makes sense, if it was from Lucas' ideas, because some of those things were TFA rumors very early, like the thing with the Sith relic collector.
MSW is reporting that the "Making of TFA" book is going to be a combination of TFA and Rogue One as per a story from SW Underground last week. You can hear about it around the 41min mark. It sounds like I may be right if this is true, that this is going to a very PC version and that Rinzler's more in depth stuff is being left out.
https://soundcloud.com/makingstarwars
https://soundcloud.com/makingstarwars
Bones_68
Sr Member
Amazon lists the book dimensions for The Force Awakens as 5.9" x .9" x 8.3". If those specs are accurate, it's going to be smaller than Rinzler's SW, Empire and Jedi books which were 11.7" x 1.3" x 10.9". That would mean a lot less space for content. I guess we'll find out for sure as the release date gets closer.
cayman shen
Master Member
I'm really not interested unless these are the full bore, nuts and bolts, warts and all nerdfests that the OT books were. Fingers crossed that we don't get watered down pap.
Solo4114
Master Member
They're gonna be crossed for the next 20 years then. And maybe for longer.
I agree but keep in mind these are books that will sell well regardless, it's just those of us who love the Rinzler books are a small monority of that customer base.
Bones_68
Sr Member
Star Wars News Net has a slight update on the Rinzler book here. Still up in the air! It's a little bizarre that the main author has been so completely cut out of the loop. Or maybe he knows more but is not allowed to legally discuss it.
I don't get it. Disney wouldn't have to dredge anything up. If the book is about the Making of TFA... show us the models, painting, props, costumes, etc... Gloss over the drama and allow it to be a fun BTS book. I think that's all most of us care about. I'm not interested in a "Reality Show" Making Of Book about SW.
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