Birds of Prey (And The Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
firesprite
Master Member
God, I wish my immediate, knee-jerk reaction wasn't to be resentful of the pandering nature of this announcement... DC has a long history of not "doing right" by its ladies, so I will admit to being seriously dubious.
CharlesHouse
Active Member
I'm interested in this, as well. I think Wonder Woman was done well in Dawn of Justice but she was limited. She wasn't overly sexualized and she was very capable mentally and physically. What we're seeing from Suicide Squad, Harley will be more New 52, removed of her intellect and with sexualized (not sexual, as she can be a sexual character and that's awesome, but sexualized without a point other than fan service), and likely tortured into being Harley. If she doesn't chose to become Harley because of genuine love for Joker, she isn't Harley.
Then you're out of touch with the comic community, which is around 50% women, if not higher.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/sep/18/female-comic-book-readers-women-avengers-a-force
http://www.comicsbeat.com/market-research-says-46-female-comic-fans/
http://www.ozy.com/acumen/the-rise-of-the-woman-comic-buyer/63314
Women have been asking for films of female characters for years.
No, I understand that there is a huge base of fans wanting more female comics heroes movies for years, but specifically THIS one though I didn't know they were asking for a DC girls spinoff already. Apologies if my statement appeared as generalizing.
I especially don't know right now if it's a great time for WB to be announcing all this until they see how Suicide Squad performs.
CharlesHouse
Active Member
I assume Suicide Squad will do well, based on the audience it caters to, even if it does awful things for those characters. It'll be Batman & Robin if the general public loved it.
joshvanrad
Sr Member
DC's new slogan should be...
DC: Just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Please, try to love us... please.
DC: Just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Please, try to love us... please.
cboath
Master Member
I thought it was 'Cashing in on Marvel's success as much as we can'
So what, DC isn't allowed to try and build its universe because Marvel is successful ? They're trying to make things differently, it ain't working so well, but at least they're not right down taking the easy way and copying Marvel.
Here it's something different, with a female main cast, that if it gets greenlit, will probably be on screen before Marvel even dares to put a solo Black Widow on screen, possibly even Captain Marvel...
Now I'll wait to see Suicide Squad before I can make an opinion wether or not making this film with Margot Robbie as the front character is a good idea or not, but some of the Quinn/Ivy stories in the DC lore are pretty good, not to mention Birds of Prey, that if done well, could kick ass.
Here it's something different, with a female main cast, that if it gets greenlit, will probably be on screen before Marvel even dares to put a solo Black Widow on screen, possibly even Captain Marvel...
Now I'll wait to see Suicide Squad before I can make an opinion wether or not making this film with Margot Robbie as the front character is a good idea or not, but some of the Quinn/Ivy stories in the DC lore are pretty good, not to mention Birds of Prey, that if done well, could kick ass.
Fawbish
Sr Member
Ah yes - I forgot how many die hard idiots are claiming that the DCEU is too similar to their favourite universe. Oh that's right. None. Because the majority of complaints center around the fact it is being done differently... :facepalm
In related news, I'd be interested in this. As long as it's an interesting premise and an entertaining story I'm sold.
What I aren't looking forward to is the thinly veiled sexism masquerading as "genuine concern". And the inevitable (hasn't happened yet, so I'm actually hopeful) Ghostbusters comparisons. Because can you imagine the absolute temerity of a film that dares have primarily a female cast?
CharlesHouse said:
The whole Paul Dini concept was that love isn't always healthy, and it certainly wasn't/isn't for Harley in those early days. New 52 actually has Harley off on her own, with non abusive relationships and is actively doing some good in the world as an anti-hero rather than an anti-villain. I think the idea of the second type is more appealing, but of course I still love the idea of the original Harley.
Psychologically it would be interesting to see the pure dedication/blind love (mad love) angle, but I think I can accept the newer style if it's done well. (Bloody hope it is!)
Fawbish
Sr Member
Except Carter/Kendra and Savage - really, really lacking something, those three. Occasional moments, but meh.
Arrow/Flash/Atom/Rip Hunter/Reverse Flash/Mr. Fantastic/Damien Darhk/Captain Cold/Deathstroke etc - yup. Nailed 'em. However now that I'm seeing it - they haven't nailed female characters that well in those shows? Black Canary is crap, (White) Canary is decent. Speedy is OK but different to comics. Have they actually absolutely nailed any female comic characters on those shows? Vixen was mediocre.
And the rest, just done well, but not amazingly.
KrangPrime
Master Member
Re: Harley Quinn & the Ladies of DC Movie
What is the purpose of this film?
Harley Quin is popular, but she's not quite the character that could carry on something by herself. And I'd bet a LARGE part of that popularity is arlene sorkin and the writing they gave her.
Now, give me a bruce tim directed movie, with Harley, Ivey, maybe Killer Frost going up against Supergirl and Batgirl, and THEN you'd have my interest..
but this new cast of people DC has running the movie show? ugh. I can't even look at those ugly suicide squad designs.
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it's not a matter of copying marvel.
It's a matter of understanding what makes the characters fun.
EVERYTHING DC has done so far, to me, rings the truth of some executive saying 'We've got to get away from the super friends image. lets make them extreme. lets make them darker, grittier, and humorless. and lots more explosions'.
The only modern movies i've enjoyed was the nolan batman trilogy (minus the joker entry). everything else, no one gets what makes the characters fun.
for me, Paul Dini and the Berlanti guys should be given the reins..
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except for supergirl.
But, I have a feeling most of that, like having moonveses wife make a cameo on her talk show, was CBS's doing. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any better and more like flash on WB. and i hope it does, because I like the cast, and when they get it, they get it. like the flash cross over. that was so refreshing seeing super heros SMILE and have fun being a hero.
What is the purpose of this film?
Harley Quin is popular, but she's not quite the character that could carry on something by herself. And I'd bet a LARGE part of that popularity is arlene sorkin and the writing they gave her.
Now, give me a bruce tim directed movie, with Harley, Ivey, maybe Killer Frost going up against Supergirl and Batgirl, and THEN you'd have my interest..
but this new cast of people DC has running the movie show? ugh. I can't even look at those ugly suicide squad designs.
- - - Updated - - -
it's not a matter of copying marvel.
It's a matter of understanding what makes the characters fun.
EVERYTHING DC has done so far, to me, rings the truth of some executive saying 'We've got to get away from the super friends image. lets make them extreme. lets make them darker, grittier, and humorless. and lots more explosions'.
The only modern movies i've enjoyed was the nolan batman trilogy (minus the joker entry). everything else, no one gets what makes the characters fun.
for me, Paul Dini and the Berlanti guys should be given the reins..
- - - Updated - - -
except for supergirl.
But, I have a feeling most of that, like having moonveses wife make a cameo on her talk show, was CBS's doing. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any better and more like flash on WB. and i hope it does, because I like the cast, and when they get it, they get it. like the flash cross over. that was so refreshing seeing super heros SMILE and have fun being a hero.
Solo4114
Master Member
That's fair, yeah. I'll confess that I'm not that well versed in Hawkman/Hawkgirl (or is it Hawkwoman now?) lore, but I can say conclusively that either the actor playing Hawkman is TERRIBLE, or the writing for him is bad, or some combination of the two. I think it's the actor. He has ZERO chemistry with the woman playing Kendra and I actually DON'T want to see them together. I prefer when he's dead/gone from the show because he just drags it to a crawl. He seems really, really miscast.
Black Canary is annoying, but a big part of that was her story arcs. That and the fact that Katie Cassidy just never really could convincingly pull off being a badass. White Canary is much more believable. She has much better physicality as an actress. Vixen was ok, but we didn't get to see her long enough to really form an opinion. Speedy is...meh. Again, lacks physicality. The problem with casting pretty waifish actresses is that they then struggle to really sell the physical side of things. Unless they're gonna put on 20-30lbs of muscle, it just won't fly, and the actress who plays Speedy, while perfectly fine as Oliver's sister before she was a ninja, just doesn't really sell the ninja side of things.
My point is more about the core of the characters, and the general vibe of the shows. They just feel to me much more like reading a comic than watching the DC Murderverse films.
KrangPrime
Master Member
it'd be nice to find one ;o). then i wouldn't have to go to rifftrax movies alone ;o)
Hell, it's not just women. i'd love to see a batgirl movie, or a supergirl movie. or you could give vixen her own franchise.
But this current crop of people doing the movie verse just don't get it.
The only people to understand these characters are the animated guys IMHO.
Re: Harley Quinn & the Ladies of DC Movie
I could easily see Harley even carrying a solo film well if done right. Unfortunately, from what we've seen so far of suicide squad, they are going in a direction that's a big turn off for a lot of people, including me.
This. Besides, all marvel did was take the characters, stay as true to them as possible, while updating them just enough to fit into a more believable real-worldish universe.
DC seems to be doing the opposite just to be "different"...Throwing some of the best parts of the characters away to fit them into a world that, if anything, is even more cartoonish than the comics.
I could easily see Harley even carrying a solo film well if done right. Unfortunately, from what we've seen so far of suicide squad, they are going in a direction that's a big turn off for a lot of people, including me.
This. Besides, all marvel did was take the characters, stay as true to them as possible, while updating them just enough to fit into a more believable real-worldish universe.
DC seems to be doing the opposite just to be "different"...Throwing some of the best parts of the characters away to fit them into a world that, if anything, is even more cartoonish than the comics.
Bah. You already know I think you're wrong on that. Supergirl is a fun show.
firesprite
Master Member
I think the something you're thinking of is any spark of chemistry whatsoever between the actors who play Kendra and Carter. I was so pissed when they forced her together with Carter when the actress' chemistry with Cisco was fantastic. Any time Carter and Kendra are on-screen together, it's like someone's thrown a wet blanket on the screen. :behave
Unfortunately, with a seriously lackluster Carter/Kendra relationship, I just don't give a damn about their conflict with Savage. Well, not entirely... I was GLAD when Savage took Carter out.
Solo4114
Master Member
Amen to that! My wife and I just watched that episode and the whole time were just saying "Ugh, just KILL HIM ALREADY!!!" Actually, similar reaction to Andy on Arrow.
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