Fabric Textures - Examining Captain America (Avengers) and Black Widow (AoU)

silkscreener · Apr 9, 2016

JJ Griffin said:
Would you be willing to do the normal kind of "fake texture" printing that Kiyo is referring to as well~?

excuse me if I'm wrong but what Kiyo is talking about as fake texture is "fake" as opposed to what it's replicating. So a 3D printed plastisol in a Kevlar pattern as opposed to using real Kevlar cloth.

So yes,

That's exactly what I will be doing depending on the demand.

JJ Griffin · Apr 9, 2016

silkscreener said:
excuse me if I'm wrong but what Kiyo is talking about as fake texture is "fake" as opposed to what it's replicating. So a 3D printed plastisol in a Kevlar pattern as opposed to using real Kevlar cloth.

So yes,

That's exactly what I will be doing depending on the demand.

I thought it was just a flat (depthless) screenprinted/silk-screened pattern on the fabric that simulates texture. Am I wrong and it actually has a raised "depth" to the patterning?

silkscreener · Apr 9, 2016

JJ Griffin said:
I thought it was just a flat (depthless) screenprinted/silk-screened pattern on the fabric that simulates texture. Am I wrong and it actually has a raised "depth" to the patterning?

if I'm getting the terminology right to what everyone else is used to here.. What you describe is the effect of digital prints/ dye subbed or flat screen prints, not much depth can be achieved in one color screen prints but the digital prints do quite well with fooling you in thinking there is something in the third dimension providing it's in the artwork. Raised 3D ink is what is being used here for a 3D effect instead of a 'flat' ink or dye if you will.

RiotJavelinDX · Apr 9, 2016

JJ Griffin said:
I thought it was just a flat (depthless) screenprinted/silk-screened pattern on the fabric that simulates texture. Am I wrong and it actually has a raised "depth" to the patterning?

It is technically a raised screen print, albeit very mildly. The ink sits largely on the surface of the fabric rather than being fully absorbed. Although this is the Marvel forum, I'll show you my custom Flash fabric as a more clear example.

tiga · Apr 9, 2016

It would be interesting to just manually screen print some cloth. I made some screen-printed T-shirts about 20 years ago and we used photographic methods to make screens. I think I could make masks for the Batman or Flash patterns on my 3D printer (printing just 2 or 3 layers making a really thin sheet). Combining several mask sheets like that side by side would make it large enough to screen print large enough quantities for a costume in time that might be considered reasonable (in replica costume making terms - not in any commercially sensible way).

JJ Griffin · Apr 9, 2016

silkscreener said:
if I'm getting the terminology right to what everyone else is used to here.. What you describe is the effect of digital prints/ dye subbed or flat screen prints, not much depth can be achieved in one color screen prints but the digital prints do quite well with fooling you in thinking there is something in the third dimension providing it's in the artwork. Raised 3D ink is what is being used here for a 3D effect instead of a 'flat' ink or dye if you will.

I see. I believe that Kiyo described in the OP is actual just flat screen printing, for the Marvel outfits. I know the Superman outfit and I believe Spiderman do have 3D/raised texture printed on them, but it was my understanding most if not all of the MCU stuff is flat and printed on stretch fabrics, and the photos Kiyo posted seem to back that up, as the pattern does not appear to be raised at all.

Of course, it's possible I too have completely misunderstood the process he explained. I would love if he could clarify for us all!

silkscreener · Apr 9, 2016

JJ Griffin said:
I see. I believe that Kiyo described in the OP is actual just flat screen printing, for the Marvel outfits. I know the Superman outfit and I believe Spiderman do have 3D/raised texture printed on them, but it was my understanding most if not all of the MCU stuff is flat and printed on stretch fabrics, and the photos Kiyo posted seem to back that up, as the pattern does not appear to be raised at all.

Of course, it's possible I too have completely misunderstood the process he explained. I would love if he could clarify for us all!

OK I'm understanding you now, there is still some depth to that particular screen print and 'micron thickness deposit' is how we differentiate the flatter screen prints from the thicker screen prints. The pictures in the first post certainly have more depth to them than if they were digitally printed and would still be classed as 3D in my books.

JJ Griffin · Apr 9, 2016

silkscreener said:
OK I'm understanding you now, there is still some depth to that particular screen print and 'micron thickness deposit' is how we differentiate the flatter screen prints from the thicker screen prints. The pictures in the first post certainly have more depth to them than if they were digitally printed and would still be classed as 3D in my books.

Ah, I see. Thanks! In that case, I will certainly be making use of your services in the future! Please add me to your interest list once you have a rough idea of pricing, ETA, etc.

silkscreener · Apr 9, 2016

JJ Griffin said:
Ah, I see. Thanks! In that case, I will certainly be making use of your services in the future! Please add me to your interest list once you have a rough idea of pricing, ETA, etc.

But for what fabric pattern are you looking for?

JJ Griffin · Apr 9, 2016

Preferably the ones shown on Falcon's new outfit:

Unfortunately outside of some 4k shots it's pretty hard to tell what sort of textures are there. I know the red trim appears to have lines (almost like shoelaces) while the grey has some sort of grid/diamond-style of pattern maybe? Maybe one day they will put the suit on display (I doubt it tho, they never displayed his Winter Soldier one).

silkscreener · Apr 10, 2016

Well to be honest i can hardly see the pattern in that picture, need a close up. There's always room for getting it in the 90% range of accuracy but like I said, This process is not for the one offs there is going to need to be a lot of interest to justify the cost and time. This depending on the size and thickness needed.

kiyominai · Apr 10, 2016

JJ Griffin said:
Preferably the ones shown on Falcon's new outfit:

View attachment 613171 View attachment 613170

Unfortunately outside of some 4k shots it's pretty hard to tell what sort of textures are there. I know the red trim appears to have lines (almost like shoelaces) while the grey has some sort of grid/diamond-style of pattern maybe? Maybe one day they will put the suit on display (I doubt it tho, they never displayed his Winter Soldier one).

silkscreener said:
Well to be honest i can hardly see the pattern in that picture, need a close up. There's always room for getting it in the 90% range of accuracy but like I said, This process is not for the one offs there is going to need to be a lot of interest to justify the cost and time. This depending on the size and thickness needed.

I'm loving the discussion in this thread so far. As silkscreener mentioned, the textures on the Captain America fabric as well as most other screen printed textures have a certain height and depth to each print. It will still be "flat" visually but there is certainly a felt texture when you run your fingers through them.

I hope this thread continues to run and receives good contribution from everyone.

JJ Griffin · Apr 10, 2016

kiyominai said:
I'm loving the discussion in this thread so far. As silkscreener mentioned, the textures on the Captain America fabric as well as most other screen printed textures have a certain height and depth to each print. It will still be "flat" visually but there is certainly a felt texture when you run your fingers through them.

I hope this thread continues to run and receives good contribution from everyone.

Thanks for clarifying.

Falcon isn't a very popular character in the cosplay/costuming world, so I don't anticipate a very high demand for this sort of fabric. Ah, well..

kiyominai · Apr 10, 2016

JJ Griffin said:
Thanks for clarifying.

Falcon isn't a very popular character in the cosplay/costuming world, so I don't anticipate a very high demand for this sort of fabric. Ah, well..

Don't give up. I'm sure there are other folks who might be interested.

And here's a photo of the Captain America pattern next to a ruler

I'll update this later with an mm ruler

pinder91 · Apr 10, 2016

Thanks for those pics, kiyominai!

I can't say for sure just yet, but it looks like Elektra may also be sporting the same pattern... which makes sense since Melvin made both DD's and Betsy's (Elektra's) suits.

Screen Shot 2016-04-10 at 6.59.12 PM.png

Mr Mold Maker · Apr 10, 2016

Absolutely amazing how advanced they've gotten with costumes. Even in your first few up close photos it holds up as being a different material. I guess when you're shooting for HD and IMAX screenings, you've got to be that accurate.. And deceptive. Really stunning work.

Thanks for the awesome post!

collinE83 · Apr 10, 2016

This shop is located in Japan, but their youtube account has some awesome videos showing different techniques they use. Might even be useful video for talking to screen printers about custom print methods.

Here's a showcase of a number of textures they use. It gets pretty diverse.

kiyominai · Apr 11, 2016

pinder91 said:
Thanks for those pics, kiyominai!

I can't say for sure just yet, but it looks like Elektra may also be sporting the same pattern... which makes sense since Melvin made both DD's and Betsy's (Elektra's) suits.
View attachment 613558

I wonder if we can find any higher resolution photos.

Mr Mold Maker said:
Absolutely amazing how advanced they've gotten with costumes. Even in your first few up close photos it holds up as being a different material. I guess when you're shooting for HD and IMAX screenings, you've got to be that accurate.. And deceptive. Really stunning work.

Thanks for the awesome post!

Definitely! And thanks for stopping by, I admire your build threads

collinE83 said:
This shop is located in Japan, but their youtube account has some awesome videos showing different techniques they use. Might even be useful video for talking to screen printers about custom print methods.

Here's a showcase of a number of textures they use. It gets pretty diverse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPPmCaYNDEc&nohtml5=False

Definitely a great video of the various possibilities with screen printing ink

kiyominai · Apr 11, 2016

kiyominai · Apr 11, 2016

Fabric Textures - Examining Captain America (Avengers) and Black Widow (AoU)

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