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  1. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 14, 2016, 2:52 AM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #76

    So, here is today's progress; this is a 'screen print' so it most likely has a bit of distortion in the image. My plan is to finish up the drawings and then print and scan the result, then save as a PDF for ease of sharing. I am drawing to 1:1 scale so any dimensional data will show as full size.

    So, point is: this is more of a progress report than usable drawings. That said, if you see anything that looks 'off', please advise me so I can correct it.
    I do know the Saturn V section is oversized but that is because it requires trimming. I included it simply for reference.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Also, if any one has any idea how a landing gear might operate on this thing, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
    Cheers!
    Robert
  2. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2016, 12:50 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #77

    Another update for the drawing: the 'engine box'.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Note that I have made a 'plan projection' of the box shell's cutout for the engine bells. This can be used as a pattern to accurately cut those relief cutouts. Also, there is a slight 'tilt' to the engine bells that I noticed when I tried to draw in the bells and found there wasn't enough clearance between the top & bottom rows. I didn't change the angled end of the engine bells to fit anything specific. I'd expect the ILM team had sanded off that angle so the bells could sit straight on the rear bulkhead or at least at the angle they needed for clearance. The depth the rear bulkhead is set back is unknown so I took a reasonable 'guess' based on the model pix.

    I also noticed that the F-14 drop tanks were rotated such that the seam between the two tank halves is about 45 degrees from horizontal (or vertical for that matter...) This implies that the tank mounting is such that the 'cutout' is aligned with the surface of the engine box sides. Also, the spacing between the tanks precludes the armature pipe from passing between them, hence there shouldn't be a mounting point on the outside of the crew pod. Wait! I see a pipe opening in this picture. Perhaps the armature pipe was not a 3/4" (19mm) pipe after all... 5/8" perhaps? Or perhaps two different sizes?

    Looking closer, it appears there are cutouts in the tanks visible where the armature would need to pass... so they just cut the part to fit around the pipe. Interesting...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I noticed a few things working on this. One, the 'orange' (O) & 'blue' (B) models differ on some intake details:
    1. The upper and lower 'bay' blanking plates on the O are vertical while on the B they are angled. I used the angled B version in my drawing simply because I like the look of it better.
    2. On the O intake, the upper and lower horizontal divider plates have a leading edge even with the outer shell edge (as on the drawing.) The B plates are set back slightly in the opening and with forward edges that appear to be slightly curved inward.

    Both versions share a feature: the center 'side' bays appear to be open at the back as I've not been able to discern any blanking plate to them, unlike all the the other "bays". It has already been shared that the four center 'openings' define a covering plug that allows access to the mounting point on the armature. Most of the pictures of the models show that plug dislodged a bit, protruding instead of being flush with the center divider.

    While working on the mounting for the auxiliary wings, I noticed that the whole 'wings' section, comprised of the main and auxiliary wings. was dislodged in the pix of the 'orange dot' model taken by Jason Eaton. It appears that the section had rotated slightly around the axis of the armature pipe running its length. Whether this is damage or just a loose assembly joint is unknown. It does make determining the placement of the aux wing's pivots problematic, however.

    Regards, Robert
  3. blakeh1's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2016, 4:46 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #78

    The landing gear are a bit of a mystery. While we see a landed ship in the movie, we can;t make out any details. You might look to that episode of Star Wars Rebels where they had the B-wing. They show it landing/taking off IIRC. Of course there are difference between it and the ROTJ one, but it could be something to get you started
  4. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2016, 10:30 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #79

    Excellent idea! Given the quality of Rebels animation, it might be just the thing - plus, it would be somewhat "canon", what?

    Regards, Robert
  5. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 18, 2016, 5:31 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #80

    With fellow RPF'er Martin's help, I have updated my draft with a depiction of the Ferrari 312 kit part:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This should be quite accurate to the original donor part. Still, I need to add whatever the part is that is tacked onto the aft end of this piece, which looks like three boxes in a row...

    Regards, Robert
  6. blakeh1's Avatar
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    Mar 18, 2016, 8:04 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #81

    Nice

    I tried scratching that part for my 1/72 B-Wing.

    I just cut out various shaped styrene pieces, and stacked them together. I didn't have much ref to work on at the time. Your diagram will sure help a lot with my next one


  7. Pedro's Avatar
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    Mar 18, 2016, 11:04 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #82

    Nice work on the little b-wing there! And amazing research and drawings in this thread. Can wait to see some parts.
  8. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 19, 2016, 12:08 AM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #83

    Pedro said: View Post
    Nice work on the little b-wing there! And amazing research and drawings in this thread. Can wait to see some parts.
    I agree with you, "B" did a nice job on his B-Wing. I can't wait to see some parts, too! ;^P
    I feel like I'm eating an elephant, btw.

    Regards, Robert

    PS: Blakeh1, that is my plan to create the ribbed section using the stack method. Since the shapes on top actually sit between the ribs, I think I can incorporate 'em using templates (sort of a manual 'slice print'.) The thickness of the sections will probably be quite thin, just hope I can find the right plastic stock, otherwise it will be paper...
  9. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 20, 2016, 2:30 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #84

    Saw an interesting post by MonsieurTox in Studio Scale Modeling via his AT-AT thread (click HERE) and this made me wonder, so this is for Julien:

    Greetings, Julien!

    My question relates to the position of the armature within the engine 'box'. Putting together my 2D drawings, I placed the mount access hatches on the top and bottom in what I believed to be the correct location, but then the result was the exposed vertical armature mount tube location was incorrect compared to pictures. However, when I moved it by a radius distance it fell to the correct location in the hatch opening. I've accepted that this assumption might be correct or incorrect as I've nothing to show what the 'naked' armature looks like but it still presents me a puzzle. My primary assumption was the long tube's location connecting the mount openings in the crew pod and the main wing 'weapons' pod was correct and hence everything else is based on that starting point.

    That said, short version is there perchance direct evidence of the configuration of the central 'star' in the engine box? I like your version better but it also means I've got some stuff to redo if confirmed...

    Thanks and Regards, Robert

    Update ------------------------------------------------------------
    Being aware of this possible discrepancy, I did a bit of manual 'photo-metric' analysis using an almost direct side-view of the 'Blue' B-Wing and found minor adjustment of the fore & aft position of the horizontal armature tube allowed things to line up much better, such that my plan now looks like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by rbeach84; Mar 20, 2016 at 4:06 PM.
  10. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 21, 2016, 1:59 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #85

    So, I've incorporated the tweaks that are indicated by the armature configuration highlighted by Julien, plus applied some details to the crew pod, as seen below:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This was all done 'by Mk.I eyeball' and photo analysis, so hopefully it is reasonably correct to the studio models. I can say the Leopard track is accurately sized, so that portion at least is solid. The cut-outs in the cockpit shell were developed using cross-sections and angular displacements to determine the intersection points and should be pretty accurate. The biggest assumption relates to the profile of the shell itself, which was sketched over an image, but the image was a bit blurry yet used because it was the one with the least amount of distortion.

    I ended up reducing the size (ie, the diameter) of my AMT Saturn V segment by quite a bit to get this clean result. My drawing may be 'tighter' than the actual studio models, which seem to suffer from a certain amount of 'slop' between the Saturn part and the rotating crew nacelle. This most likely is due to how rotating joints were engineered which has suffered over time. I was wondering how they allowed for the armature tube running through the center. Obviously, the crew nacelle couldn't rotate if it had a solid connecting axle or tube running through the Saturn segment. Perhaps there were 'windows' cut into a connecting tube to allow access to the armature, as long as the pod was aligned properly. However, the image showing the open Saturn V 'hatch' doesn't show anything indicative of that, so apparently the fore and aft portions of the crew nacelle rotate independently (unless there were actual connecting, synchronizing shafts with gears so turning one half would also turn the other...hmm!)

    Since starting this, the two images that were shared of the ILM modelers working on the B-Wings have helped on several points. It was nice to see the two vacuformed halves of the cockpit shell on the workbench, confirming the cockpit wasn't made using a kit part directly but formed over a single buck, then joined and trimmed for the various cutouts.

    This is proving to be quite a fun puzzle to work on... ;^D
    As always, comments are welcome.

    Regards y'all,
    Robert
  11. blakeh1's Avatar
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    Mar 21, 2016, 2:42 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #86

    I'm no expert, but that shapes look pretty accurate to me.
  12. blakeh1's Avatar
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    Mar 21, 2016, 2:46 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #87

    Pedro said: View Post
    NCan wait to see some parts
    rbeach84 said: View Post
    I can't wait to see some parts, too! ;^P
    just for clarity's sake in case there were any misunderstanding, that is the Alfred Wong mastered 1/72 kit. I was just trying to accurize various parts. I built a new cockpit canopy since the resin one was crap and did some things like replace the resin guns with metal ones and replace the engine part etc... I wish I had gone further than I had, but I was afraid of screwing up with too much major overhauls. I'd rather have a less accurate built version than none at all

    Although I have been closely following this thread and seeing what I can learn to potentially tackle scratch building my own 1/72. Hopefully being able to find a few downscaled donor kit parts to ease some of the work and get a more accurate model for myself than the Wong mastered one in the end. I'm not striving for 100% accuracy, but something more so in that scale than what is available
    Last edited by blakeh1; Mar 21, 2016 at 2:53 PM.
  13. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 21, 2016, 11:11 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #88

    Hmm! Down-scale to 1/72... so, just 'thinking out loud'...

    That means each component much be sized at:

    32 / 72 = 0.4444 or 44% of the originals, much like for the 1/48, the conversion is:

    32 / 48 = 0.6666 or 2/3rds the originals.

    Of course, you can directly use 1/72 donors for the 1/32 original parts like the Hornet wings, the F-14 drop tanks...but not much else. The 1/144 scale parts would need to be:
    144 / 0.4444 = 324.32. The closest approximation is 1/350 scale, but this is a ~7% difference. Hmm, not too bad. However, this means primarily the Shuttle stack & Saturn V kits, of which I'm not aware of any candidates.

    A lot of scratchbuilding would be required, regardless. Any automobile & armor kit donors aren't likely to have anything close unless I'm overlooking something. I suppose 1/76 scale armor might do for 1/35 parts (close to the needed 1/79 scale), but the selection there is rather thin being as most small armor kits are 1/72 scale and mostly for WWII subjects AFAIK.

    Other donor scales break down as:
    1/12 > 1/27 (1/24/25 is close, but a few ratio 'points' off means more the larger the model)
    1/20 > 1/45 (1/43 scale is close)
    1/24 > 1/54 (nothing close...)

    Regards, Robert
  14. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 23, 2016, 3:27 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #89

    Well, continued tinkering resulted in adjustments to the crew pod cut-outs so I'm pretty confident this is pretty darn close:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've also been trying to work up some wing profiles, but this has been a process of 'discovery' meaning I'm flailing away until I get it right:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Again, feel free to comment or offer suggestions.

    Regards, Robert
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    Mar 23, 2016, 3:44 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #90

    That is some pretty amazing work, especially considering youre drawing it all in 2D.
  16. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 23, 2016, 3:57 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #91

    Thanks, DD! Mostly, it is like eating an elephant... even an obsessive like myself can do it if done in small batches. Trouble is, I'll keep finding adjustments to existing work as I get into the different details. But that is partly due to creating 'placeholders' in the drawing that must be corrected/fleshed out as I progress down the length of the vehicle.

    Plus, gotta look at a LOT of images... ;^P

    Regards, Robert
  17. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 28, 2016, 2:22 AM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #92

    Been few days but here is another peek at the drawings, this time cross sections of the crew pod:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for looking!
    R/ Robert
  18. blakeh1's Avatar
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    Mar 28, 2016, 12:09 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #93

    So how would you go about building the cockpit? that curve on top of it being a cone is going to be hard to fabricate. I guess stick with creating a vacuform buck?
  19. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 28, 2016, 4:13 PM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #94

    blakeh1 said: View Post
    So how would you go about building the cockpit? that curve on top of it being a cone is going to be hard to fabricate. I guess stick with creating a vacuform buck?
    Sure thing. Just like the original, need a single 'half' shape buck to make two copies (actually, four (two thick & two thin) plus one clear plastic pull, to allow for the plating and the window portion) to join together for the full shape. Most if not all of the major parts are that way since they are all symmetrical top & bottom halves...
    That is why I went ahead and drew out so many cross sections, to help with making the 'buck'.

    R/ Robert
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    Mar 30, 2016, 1:55 AM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #95

    Been working on a landing gear concept, roughly based on what was used in the Rebels episode. First is the main gear, which consists of six stubby 'alighting gear' legs under the 'engine box that flip down from wells in the sides of the 'box'. I had to add some small fairings on the small doors over the pivot hinge:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Then there is the 'prop-up' leg under the primary wing; much less complex, though I shall depict it as 'compressed' when retracted.:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for looking!

    Regards, Robert
  21. Member Since
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    Mar 30, 2016, 2:24 AM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #96

    Great stuff, Robert! You have some very technical skills going on there. I'm impressed and jealous.

    -Kris
  22. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 30, 2016, 2:29 AM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #97

    korben44 said: View Post
    Great stuff, Robert! You have some very technical skills going on there. I'm impressed and jealous.

    -Kris
    You might be less impressed if you could see me in action, Kris! ;^D But thank you anyway...

    I've not done much drafting in quite a while, so I'm happy with the results so far; to the point I think I could build a model from my drawings. Looking at the secondary wings segment next, it will be a challenge.

    R/ Robert
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    Mar 30, 2016, 2:35 AM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #98

    You're welcome, Robert. The process of getting there isn't always the prettiest, but the end results speak for themselves! With the lack of B-Wing kits available, building one from scratch seems the way to go. I'm slowly getting there, so by the time you finish your's, I'll be skillful enough to use your work as reference. I think I'd want a 1/72 scale version, though. That seems to be what the majority of my collection is anyway.

    -Kris
  24. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Mar 31, 2016, 2:18 AM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #99

    korben44 said: View Post
    You're welcome, Robert. The process of getting there isn't always the prettiest, but the end results speak for themselves! With the lack of B-Wing kits available, building one from scratch seems the way to go. I'm slowly getting there, so by the time you finish your's, I'll be skillful enough to use your work as reference. I think I'd want a 1/72 scale version, though. That seems to be what the majority of my collection is anyway.

    -Kris
    Hey, with luck, Bandai will issue a B-Wing in their 1/72 scale series & save you any trouble! ;^)

    Here is a bit more of my concept for the pri-wing's landing 'prop':

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regards, Robert
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    Mar 31, 2016, 2:37 AM - Re: 1/48 B-Wing Scratch Build #100

    rbeach84 said: View Post
    Hey, with luck, Bandai will issue a B-Wing in their 1/72 scale series & save you any trouble! ;^)

    Here is a bit more of my concept for the pri-wing's landing 'prop':

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regards, Robert
    But isn't the trouble of it the fun part?

    Nice work on the landing gear, btw.

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