Axanar - Crowdfunded 'Star Trek' Movie Draws Lawsuit from Paramount, CBS

mkstewartesq · Jan 3, 2016

alienscollection.com said:
I'm pretty clueless in the legalities of all this, or the accuracies of any legal claims - here's another look someone posted on Trekbbs:

http://skipoliva.com/index.php/2016/01/03/the-joy-of-copyright-infringement/

Thanks, Willie. This is good reading and will hopefully clear out some of the common misunderstandings that are popping up in the discussions about this case. "Profit" or "making money" is NOT REQUIRED for liability for copyright infringement – heck, even the intent to make the copy is not required (copyright infringement is what is known as a strict liability offense – merely making the copy, even if unintentionally, constitutes copyright infringement under US law. This is how Internet service providers and cloud companies can be held liable for infringing material stored on their servers by users – even though the cloud provider may not even know the information was being stored, their servers automatically made a copy to put it in storage. Even the safe harbors under the law after 1998 only limit the cloud provider's liability for copyright infringement, they do not change the fact that the making of the copy is copyright infringement and the cloud provider is a copyright infringer under the law . )

Of course, unfortunately, this article does not dispel the most laughable theory of defense I've seen posted by more than one person on other boards such as Trekmovie - namely " all of the fan film makers should get together and form a class action that, because CBS has mishandled the franchise with poor product , they have forfeited their copyright in it ." To paraphrase Han Solo from TFA, "that's not how [copyright] works...."

M

Tom Starkiller · Jan 3, 2016

Almost skipped this threat, as I've seen posts about this all over the net by people who seem to think that they're entitled to fan films or just see what they want to and willfully ignore reality. So glad that there's some smart heads around here.

jarroth · Jan 3, 2016

on other hand about copyrights.......

if some manufactorers would look on the RPF alot of lawsuits could be started. copyright is a wierd kinda of thing. i have proof of big companies losing lawsuits because the copied item was mirror image of the original. why they took on this project and sued the makers and not the others? dont know unless someone from paramount or cbs will explain.

its a shame tough and must be tough for the makers but they could have known for sure it could happen

Alan Castillo · Jan 3, 2016

I had absolutely no idea what Axanar was till a few days ago.

From the various articles I have been reading, Alec Peters' unwritten 'message' to the studios regarding Axanar are :

"I can do whatever I like because whatever you say, I'm doing nothing wrong. Within the boundaries of my definition of doing nothing wrong, I'm giving the fans exactly what they want since you studios have no idea what they want."

“Although we fall under the fan movie, we’ve tried to make the product as good as coming out of the studio.”

(Read, not only that, but I'm giving it to them in major studio quality, just as good as yours)

“Axanar” has generated more than twice those productions combined, allowing Peters’ team to lease a warehouse in Valencia, California, for three years and build a set to make their movie “as compelling as the studio films.”

(Read, and now have the money to compete with you, because I'm just as good as you.)

Good gods. It's not enough for Alec Peters to poke the bear, he has to do it with a taser :lol

Proper · Jan 3, 2016

Mola Rob said:
The bottom line is Paramount and CBS hold the rights to Star Trek, if they tell you to stop infringing on their property then shut up and stop. Make your own story with different characters and settings if you really want to make a movie.

Exactly right! Paramount and CBS have every right to protect their copyright. This should come as a surprise to no one.

Solo4114 · Jan 4, 2016

Alan Castillo said:
I had absolutely no idea what Axanar was till a few days ago.

From the various articles I have been reading, Alec Peters' unwritten 'message' to the studios regarding Axanar are :

"I can do whatever I like because whatever you say, I'm doing nothing wrong. Within the boundaries of my definition of doing nothing wrong, I'm giving the fans exactly what they want since you studios have no idea what they want."

“Although we fall under the fan movie, we’ve tried to make the product as good as coming out of the studio.”

(Read, not only that, but I'm giving it to them in major studio quality, just as good as yours)

“Axanar” has generated more than twice those productions combined, allowing Peters’ team to lease a warehouse in Valencia, California, for three years and build a set to make their movie “as compelling as the studio films.”

(Read, and now have the money to compete with you, because I'm just as good as you.)

Good gods. It's not enough for Alec Peters to poke the bear, he has to do it with a taser :lol

More like a cattle prod.

mistymills · Jan 7, 2016

A little background here: I produce a Star Trek fan series. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2512472)

We have always supported other projects and have made some great friends through them. For the most part, the Trek fan film/series community is very closeknit and supportive. However, sometimes you end up with projects that get hit with the C&D (Axanar is not the first, though they like to imply they are) and threatened with a lawsuit. Others have and often it is because the production team was too ambitious and did not abide by the rules.

For many years there have been Trek fan projects around the internet. Ours began in 2008, for example, and there were many around long before us. The Axanar team likes to point out that other projects have crowdsourced, as if that should somehow make it legal and fine for them.

(For the record: My series has always been self-funded. We do not sell merch. We do not put ads on our videos. We do not sell DVDs or charge for downloads. We do not even show episodes at conventions when we have a table because people paid an admission to the venue and even THAT goes against the rules.)

Projects purposely flaunting the rules puts us all at risk and therefore we cannot support the actions taken by Axanar.

Now, let me take off my Producer hat and put on my Misty hat...

Okay any project that raises almost two million dollars, pays staff members a salary, pays for staff to attend conventions and sells merchandise is clearly breaking the rules and the law. It's cut and dry. The big blur comes into the fact that they have let other productions continue for years without being shut down.

So I talk about the 'rules' as opposed to the laws. What's that mean? Well, there is an unofficial list of rules for production of Star Trek fan productions. Among them are that you don't make money, you don't accept monetary donations and you don't strive for such high production qualities that you can rival legit Trek productions. Axanar not only did all of this but they reveled in it and outright pushed for more. I mean Alec Peters outright said: "We can't sell DVDs, but we can give them away if you make a donation." -- which is the same as selling in the eyes of the law.

The issue is a very complex one that hits on a lot of laws and a lot of 'unwritten rules' that have existed for many years between TPTB and Trek fan productions.

I just know I'm gonna be more than a little irked if this shuts down all fan productions.

Moviefreak · Jan 7, 2016

mistymills said:
A little background here: I produce a Star Trek fan series. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2512472)

We have always supported other projects and have made some great friends through them. For the most part, the Trek fan film/series community is very closeknit and supportive. However, sometimes you end up with projects that get hit with the C&D (Axanar is not the first, though they like to imply they are) and threatened with a lawsuit. Others have and often it is because the production team was too ambitious and did not abide by the rules.

For many years there have been Trek fan projects around the internet. Ours began in 2008, for example, and there were many around long before us. The Axanar team likes to point out that other projects have crowdsourced, as if that should somehow make it legal and fine for them.

(For the record: My series has always been self-funded. We do not sell merch. We do not put ads on our videos. We do not sell DVDs or charge for downloads. We do not even show episodes at conventions when we have a table because people paid an admission to the venue and even THAT goes against the rules.)

Projects purposely flaunting the rules puts us all at risk and therefore we cannot support the actions taken by Axanar.

Now, let me take off my Producer hat and put on my Misty hat...

Okay any project that raises almost two million dollars, pays staff members a salary, pays for staff to attend conventions and sells merchandise is clearly breaking the rules and the law. It's cut and dry. The big blur comes into the fact that they have let other productions continue for years without being shut down.

So I talk about the 'rules' as opposed to the laws. What's that mean? Well, there is an unofficial list of rules for production of Star Trek fan productions. Among them are that you don't make money, you don't accept monetary donations and you don't strive for such high production qualities that you can rival legit Trek productions. Axanar not only did all of this but they reveled in it and outright pushed for more. I mean Alec Peters outright said: "We can't sell DVDs, but we can give them away if you make a donation." -- which is the same as selling in the eyes of the law.

The issue is a very complex one that hits on a lot of laws and a lot of 'unwritten rules' that have existed for many years between TPTB and Trek fan productions.

I just know I'm gonna be more than a little irked if this shuts down all fan productions.

That is how it usually goes.... It is all fun and kosher until one person come along, pushes things too far, and ruins it for everyone.

joberg · Jan 7, 2016

Yep, someone is going to start printing T-shirts with the words "SPASTIC SOBBING" written on them

behave while the Paramount/CBS lawyers are going to laugh all the way to the bank!

Proper · Jan 7, 2016

Moviefreak said:
That is how it usually goes.... It is all fun and kosher until one person come along, pushes things too far, and ruins it for everyone.

Well, that's right. But really, it's something that's utterly inevitable. It starts with one simple thing, then the next thing has to be a little better and taken a little further, and on and on, until suddenly a thing finds itself in a place out in the middle of the ocean... facing an oncoming storm in the way of a copyright suit.

Alan Castillo · Jan 7, 2016

mistymills said:
.... I just know I'm gonna be more than a little irked if this shuts down all fan productions.

I have the feeling this will not be the case at all.

IMHO, it is clear that the studios are going after Alec Peters only as Axanar, as an individual, due to his egocentric, megalomaniac arrogance.

They do not have to 'justify' to any court why they 'picked on Axanar if everyone else is doing it'.

It is the studios' prerogative to sue who they want, when they want. There is no law that says "sue them all or none at all". IMHO, that argument holds no water.

This situation also serves the studio to remind other fan based productions of, as you say, the 'unwritten rules', and what could happen if boundaries are overstepped.

Solo4114 · Jan 8, 2016

Alan Castillo said:
I have the feeling this will not be the case at all.

IMHO, it is clear that the studios are going after Alec Peters only as Axanar, as an individual, due to his egocentric, megalomaniac arrogance.

They do not have to 'justify' to any court why they 'picked on Axanar if everyone else is doing it'.

It is the studios' prerogative to sue who they want, when they want. There is no law that says "sue them all or none at all". IMHO, that argument holds no water.

This situation also serves the studio to remind other fan based productions of, as you say, the 'unwritten rules', and what could happen if boundaries are overstepped.

It's not exactly that.

Axanar is what I'd consider a "credible threat." That's not a legal doctrine, by the way; it's just a general concept. It basically is an application of Misty's "rules." Essentially, Paramount/CBS turns a blind eye to most fan-made stuff because it's not a "credible threat." It doesn't really harm their business interests in any way. That's because the fan films usually aren't actually commercial ventures, and their production values aren't anywhere near what a studio can produce. Ergo, it's not likely to pull fans away from legitimate Trek stuff.

Axanar, on the other hand, is a commercial venture (distinctions about "donations" vs. "purchases" are irrelevant. I can put a fishbowl on my head and call myself an astronaut, but that doesn't make it so.). It's also apparently stated that it intends to use Trek/Axanar to launch other original properties (likely to perpetuate its commercial business). It's also possible that it'd pull fans away from legitimate Trek stuff -- as evidenced by the people rushing to its defense and the crowdsourcing results.

What's more, Alec Peters has basically provided all the evidence Paramount/CBS needs to make this a completely open-and-shut case. He infringed their copyrights and does not have a fair use leg to stand on. His public comments serve as further evidence of his intentions. Apparently he has a law degree. Frankly, I don't buy it because unless he was comatose for the entirety of Copyright Law class, there is no possible way he could have legitimately thought his project was legal or that he wasn't basically handing Paramount all the evidence it needs for an injunction.

I expect that Paramount will not suddenly go on a widespread crusade to destroy all fan films, though. To the contrary, I'd expect that having eventually posted Alec Peters' head on a spike outside their palace, they will trust that the message has been sent and received, and that future fan productions will remember to stay under their radar. In the meantime, it will continue its policy of benign neglect, unless another fan production does something that simply cannot be ignored.

mistymills · Jan 8, 2016

Not to mention that he was drawing paychecks (for himself and his girlfriend who did order fulfillment) and selling merchandise.

tripoli · Jan 8, 2016

The reality is that flat out any fan film is a legal infringement. The owners of such intellectual property right have the ability and right to enforce it when and if they want to.
As for what has sparked this? More than likely it is the fact that they are looking at producing another television program and want to nail down any competition to that studio show. I would rank this up more to bad timing than anything else.

Solo4114 · Jan 8, 2016

tripoli said:
The reality is that flat out any fan film is a legal infringement. The owners of such intellectual property right have the ability and right to enforce it when and if they want to.
As for what has sparked this? More than likely it is the fact that they are looking at producing another television program and want to nail down any competition to that studio show. I would rank this up more to bad timing than anything else.

This is doubly true since the show they're launching will be the flagship show of their new pay-to-stream service. It's basically intended to be for CBS' streaming service what Game of Thrones is for HBO Now.

You start threatening that, you're likely to pull a little aggro, to put it lightly.

tripoli · Jan 8, 2016

More than likely CBS pushed for this than Paramount.
It's a shame that hey could have not used this as a push forward for the television series with a bit of co-operation. But with the bullish stance the fan film took, they more than likely alienated any chance of a compromise. They should have been as willing as possible to approach it in whatever means would have made Paramount happy. Going on the offense when you don't have a leg to stand on is never going to help your cause.

Proper · Jan 9, 2016

Solo4114 said:
This is doubly true since the show they're launching will be the flagship show of their new pay-to-stream service. It's basically intended to be for CBS' streaming service what Game of Thrones is for HBO Now.

You start threatening that, you're likely to pull a little aggro, to put it lightly.

Yeah, but what I don't understand is how you think that you can poke the sleeping bear with a cattle prod and then expect to just walk away laughing!?

Solo4114 · Jan 10, 2016

Proper said:
Yeah, but what I don't understand is how you think that you can poke the sleeping bear with a cattle prod and then expect to just walk away laughing!?

Step 1: have a monumentally bad understanding of copyright law...

Apollo · Jan 10, 2016

Step 2: be crazier than a loon....

Alan Castillo · Jan 10, 2016

Before clicking on the spoiler tag, be advised that it contains one of those millions upon millions of Hitler meme videos floating on the net, this particular one made to parody the Axanar situation.

If you are sensitive to these memes, don't click.

If you are not, and want to have a laugh, click away.

Axanar Finds Out...

By Michael Cunningham

Axanar - Crowdfunded 'Star Trek' Movie Draws Lawsuit from Paramount, CBS

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