Axanar - Crowdfunded 'Star Trek' Movie Draws Lawsuit from Paramount, CBS
- Thread starter mkstewartesq
- Start date
Lord Boron
Sr Member
I don't think thier "thousands of screaming fans" will pose much of a threat to thier hundreds of high priced lawyers.
mkstewartesq
Sr Member
Something else I noticed that I had not caught before, which may explain some of Paramount/CBS' motivations. Axanar Productiosn apparently made this statement at some point in the past.
"But Axanar is not just an independent Star Trek film; it is the beginning of a whole new way that fans can get the content they want, by funding it themselves. Why dump hundreds or thousands of dollars a year on 400 cable channels, when what you really want is a few good sci-fi shows? Hollywood is changing. Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and other providers are redefining content delivery, and AxanarProductions/Ares Studios hopes to be part of that movement.”
Whether or not it was Axanar's intent, that statement looks like head-on competition for a certain upcoming initiative of Paramount/CBS to start delivering new, studio quality Start Trek to fans online rather than via traditional cable distribution, doesn't it? (Besides the statement just appearing to be a ballsy manifesto of building "a whole new way that fans can get the content they want" and "Axanar" the film being just "the beginning.")
Sadly, though ST:C and ST:NV have been more humble, they share some similarities with Axanar in that they are arguably-studio-quality productions available online, and I could foresee Paramount/CBS moving against them as well (though I hope not) just to clear the "online-streaming Star Trek" decks before the new "official" Star Trek series starts. Those of us who've been around since the late 1990s and early 2000s know that Paramount/CBS/Viacom has a history of getting more assertive with their rights when they have their own product to push, and being more lenient and forgiving during the "lull" periods.
M
"But Axanar is not just an independent Star Trek film; it is the beginning of a whole new way that fans can get the content they want, by funding it themselves. Why dump hundreds or thousands of dollars a year on 400 cable channels, when what you really want is a few good sci-fi shows? Hollywood is changing. Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and other providers are redefining content delivery, and AxanarProductions/Ares Studios hopes to be part of that movement.”
Whether or not it was Axanar's intent, that statement looks like head-on competition for a certain upcoming initiative of Paramount/CBS to start delivering new, studio quality Start Trek to fans online rather than via traditional cable distribution, doesn't it? (Besides the statement just appearing to be a ballsy manifesto of building "a whole new way that fans can get the content they want" and "Axanar" the film being just "the beginning.")
Sadly, though ST:C and ST:NV have been more humble, they share some similarities with Axanar in that they are arguably-studio-quality productions available online, and I could foresee Paramount/CBS moving against them as well (though I hope not) just to clear the "online-streaming Star Trek" decks before the new "official" Star Trek series starts. Those of us who've been around since the late 1990s and early 2000s know that Paramount/CBS/Viacom has a history of getting more assertive with their rights when they have their own product to push, and being more lenient and forgiving during the "lull" periods.
M
Riceball
Master Member
Based on what's been written here it sounds to me the issue is that the folks behind Axanar aren't just trying to make a fan film/series, they're trying to make fan film/series for money and that's what is bringing down the wrath of CBS. I think that is the key difference between Axanar and the others, while they may share similar production values it's the potential for profit is what garnering them the attention from CBS that the others haven't. It's one thing if you want to make a fan film/series for the love of the franchise/product/character where nobody is really getting paid, or paid much, and there's no profits being made, but it's another when it's looking like professional production with paid actors and the production as a whole is going to be a return on investments.
So probably not wise for him to be baiting them with his comments and social media posts.
You could literally burn a bridge before you even have a chance to cross it.
Can asking for money on Kickstater be seen legally as the same thing as generating $?
Solo4114
Master Member
Absolutely.
Also, the notion of "But I'm not making any money off of it" doesn't end the discussion when you're talking about fair use. You can make no money off of something and still infringe copyright or trademark. Easiest example of this is torrenting movies or TV shows. You may not be making any money when you upload a torrent of Game of Thrones Season 5, but you are absolutely taking money away from HBO. It's no different with derivative, unlicensed works like fan films. You may not make any money by distributing it, but you certainly can be taking money away from CBS. Likewise, you may be damaging their trademarks.
Most rights holders turn a blind eye to the widespread, benign fan films because they're often low-quality, there's zero likelihood that anyone will think it's an officially sanctioned product, and they aren't really taking money away from the rights holder. But if you start doing things like widespread distribution, especially of something like a glossy, high quality production, you're at risk. If you then double down and solicit money from folks to pay for it, rather than funding it from your own pocket, that's even worse.
mkstewartesq
Sr Member
Add to this their statement that "Axanar" is "just the beginning" of a plan by Axanar Productions and Ares to kick off a new channel of content delivery. Even if they made zero money off the Axanar film itself (which, as Dan points out, doesn't help them much legally), it still looks like they are leveraging Star Trek IP to build something greater that, one assumes, WILL eventually net them money.
M
M
Interesting...
Yeah, Fox recently dropped the hammer on an Alien fan film:
http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/al...fan-film-that-would-have-starred-carrie-henn/
Yeah, Fox recently dropped the hammer on an Alien fan film:
http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/al...fan-film-that-would-have-starred-carrie-henn/
Borjis
Sr Member
Allegedly what broke the deal is, the post production co founded to do this is (for profit) and getting paid from the kickstarter
to buy equipment, rent facilities and PAY employees to do the work.
No other fan film is doing that. They might as well have done their own story/ip but then with out the star trek name nobody would have cared to.
I enjoyed the trailer/short film but this was doomed from the start with a business model like that on a property they don't have rights to.
Years ago there was a very cool star wars fan film (can't recall the name) made by a bunch of movie industry types.
It looked incredible, tons of well done CGI. There was no kick starter and it was all done on their own time/dime.
It wasn't TROOPS but I do recall a lot of 501st Storm Trooper and Imperial costuming.
Lucasfilm didn't do anything.
to buy equipment, rent facilities and PAY employees to do the work.
No other fan film is doing that. They might as well have done their own story/ip but then with out the star trek name nobody would have cared to.
I enjoyed the trailer/short film but this was doomed from the start with a business model like that on a property they don't have rights to.
Years ago there was a very cool star wars fan film (can't recall the name) made by a bunch of movie industry types.
It looked incredible, tons of well done CGI. There was no kick starter and it was all done on their own time/dime.
It wasn't TROOPS but I do recall a lot of 501st Storm Trooper and Imperial costuming.
Lucasfilm didn't do anything.
Last edited:
Lord Boron
Sr Member
If they fight back saying "well, they didn't go after these other fan films" it will most likely make Paramount and all other studios taking a much harder look at fan films. Going too far could lead to zero tolerance from the studios.
Solo4114
Master Member
Practically speaking, it's unlikely to lead to zero tolerance, because the studios don't want to hammer every single guy with a camcorder who wants to film his buddy wearing a YELLOW.....SHIRT and........SPEAKING.....................inabadBillShatnerimpersonation, just because that dude uploaded his goofy video to youtube. I mean, they don't want to pay their lawyers' hourly rates to send C&Ds out -- even form versions -- to everyone who makes a fan film.
But the larger scale projects? At times when they're already looking to leverage their own franchise as literally the only attractive thing about their nascent streaming service? Yeah, I could see them going after those. That's just smart business.
You want REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY interesting check this out... I don't know how many guys here
know about it but one fellow on the Net is making an INSANELY detailed ENTERPRISE D using the UNREAL ENGINE.
He's got allot done and it's MASSIVELY impressive..
Well, I stumbled on this as HE got into a "discussion" with CBS's Lawerys as well..
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, looks like 2016 is going to be interesting for ANYONE
doing a project that's TREK based as CBS is looking to go after more then just AXANAR for thier
ANNIVERSARY..
https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/3ysgo9/cbsparamount_files_lawsuit_against_axanar/cygccij
know about it but one fellow on the Net is making an INSANELY detailed ENTERPRISE D using the UNREAL ENGINE.
He's got allot done and it's MASSIVELY impressive..
Well, I stumbled on this as HE got into a "discussion" with CBS's Lawerys as well..
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, looks like 2016 is going to be interesting for ANYONE
doing a project that's TREK based as CBS is looking to go after more then just AXANAR for thier
ANNIVERSARY..
https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/3ysgo9/cbsparamount_files_lawsuit_against_axanar/cygccij
I love how in the comments, people are asking for "proof" that he had this discussion, or they are telling him "claim fair use", "say it is a documentary", "keep doing it", "you'll be fine". I guess when they aren't the ones who got a warning and their butts aren't on the line, it is easy for the to play devils advocate.
mkstewartesq
Sr Member
While I don't doubt that Axanar is not necessarily the only action we see from Paramount/CBS, I won't adopt a "sky is falling" view until I actually see more action. As I suspected in an earlier post, Axanar really brought this on themselves by positioning their product as direct competition to "professional" Star Trek films produced by the studio. CBS confirmed this in a statement they gave to the Hollywood Reporter after HR's original article was published:
""Star Trek is a treasured franchise in which CBS and Paramount continue to produce new original content for its large universe of fans. The producers of Axanar are making a Star Trek picture they describe themselves as a fully professional independent Star Trek film. Their activity clearly violates our Star Trek copyrights, which, of course, we will continue to vigorously protect."
In addition, Axanar/Ares Studios' own statements that the Axanar film was intended to lead to a larger operation of offering non-Star Trek content didn't help, as it seemed to be a public statement that they were appropriating Paramount's IP in order to further their own larger business interests. Though I have no personal knowledge to confirm it, I've seen various other reports on the Web stating that this was in fact Ares Studios' plan - to eventually grow into more of a "real" studio. I've also seen reports that the crowdfunded amounts were used to start up Ares Studios and pay salaries, which (again, if true), also looks like appropriation of Paramount IP for income/profit and to launch a larger business endeavor. So I can see why, if all that is the case, Paramount felt the need to step in here - or, at least, to make Axanar the first target.
And let's look at one other thing here - the statement "The producers of Axanar are making a Star Trek picture they describe themselves as a fully professional independent Star Trek film". A lot of folk are stating this should be okay because, as fans, Axanar shouldn't need a license. What if we take that exact same sentence and replace "the producers of Axanar" with "Sony" or "Universal". Would anyone here be saying Sony or Universal doesn't need Paramount's permission - or that Paramount has no right to object - if they read the sentence "Sony are making a Star Trek picture they describe themselves as a fully professional independent Star Trek film". True fan films may be one thing - but when you claim to be a functional studio (with future expansion plans) professing to make a "fully professional independent film" based on IP owned by another studio, you are crossing the line (IMHO) and infringing (IMLO). You can't play both sides of the fence - you can't be a "professional studio" project when you're trying to promote and raise cash for your film, then claim to be a mere "poor little fan labor of love getting squashed by the Man" when you get dinged for it.
M
Last edited:
He handled things badly but he made a Trek that I was actually interested in seeing for the first time since Next Gen went off the air and for me to actually watch something made after the 90s is a big deal. It's a shame it's ending this way, the fact he made so much money proves that he had at least had a clue to what fans wanted.
Similar threads
