Marvel's Iron Fist (Netflix)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Fawbish
Sr Member
We obviously disagree about a LOT - cannot agree with you more here.
I didn't even think Luke Cage was great, it was good - and yet that seems awesome compared to this. I'm on Ep 9 or something, and I went in totally ready to forgive stuff, as is my default position. But the show really doesn't give you many chances to defend it, even when you break it down to read between the lines.
The DD hallway fight, the stakes, the filming, the acting, the result....it's perfect action on TV. A palette cleanser. I did exactly the same after Ep 6 or 7 - I followed that up with the DD/Punisher rooftop, and Wilson Fisk in the prison van with his Good Samaritan story (still one of the best villain solidification of character I've seen - I think it rivals Walter White's "I'm the one who knocks.")
And I don't think I've seen one instance of Iron Fist so far that makes me feel that way, which is gutting!
What really elevates the DD hallway fight is how it ended. After everything he pauses before opening the door and raises his mask so as not to frighten the kid. When he says, "I know you're scared" he's seeing himself in the kid. Remember that, just before this part was the flashback of Matt as a kid finding his father dead and suddenly alone in the world. It still makes me cry to think Matt is rescuing the boy the way he couldn't be rescued and tells him, "You don't have to be afraid anymore."We obviously disagree about a LOT - cannot agree with you more here.
I didn't even think Luke Cage was great, it was good - and yet that seems awesome compared to this. I'm on Ep 9 or something, and I went in totally ready to forgive stuff, as is my default position. But the show really doesn't give you many chances to defend it, even when you break it down to read between the lines.
The DD hallway fight, the stakes, the filming, the acting, the result....it's perfect action on TV. A palette cleanser. I did exactly the same after Ep 6 or 7 - I followed that up with the DD/Punisher rooftop, and Wilson Fisk in the prison van with his Good Samaritan story (still one of the best villain solidification of character I've seen - I think it rivals Walter White's "I'm the one who knocks.")
And I don't think I've seen one instance of Iron Fist so far that makes me feel that way, which is gutting!
The season 2 rooftop scene is another part I keep returning to. It's so smartly written and performed. Most actors would play Frank Castle as a deluded psychopath. What Bernthal did was to actually make his position plausible and his Castle was smart and perceptive enough to know when Matt is trying to read him. He's got a level of respect for Matt and believes Matt's coming from a good place but simply lacks the experience to see the bigger picture. It would be so easy to paint The Punisher as a stock psycho vigilante driven by the killing of his family. But he's a purposeful, intelligent and self-aware man with a well realized ethic. The dialogue was simply pitch perfect.
Last edited:
Noeland
Master Member
Finished the series a few days ago. It took me a long time to get through it all. I really only watched this all the way through for completions sake, and because I thought it might lead into The Defenders more directly. Overall, I did not enjoy much about this show. It was nice to see Claire had a bigger role than I expected her to.
The ending/story wrap up was, like most of the series for me, not very compelling or interesting. The final episode and the last few scenes didn't even make sense to me, particularly with Joy. That was out of left field.
The very last scene looked like it was done with carboard and paper mache. It just seemed so poorly done. That kind of thing can be charming. Just felt cheap to me.
The writing really seemed like every episode was a first draft, and they just wrote it as they went along not sure how it was going to end, and then they just decided to wrap it all up in a very cliche manner, because they had to write an ending, and they didn't have the interest or maybe time to come up with anything better. So they just wrote it, good or bad, and went with it.
Finn Jones plays Danny Rand like a bewildered child who's not smart enough to figure out anything on his own. Partly because of the writing, yes, but he was so overboard on his constant wide eyed portrayal, it started to get on my nerves around episode 7. But even in the last episode it didn't feel like Danny evolved or learned anything from the events of the show.
I accepted that I was watching a show with a lead character who is just stupid. Not naive, because even naive people can eventually get the hang of things, change, and get better. Danny never got the hang of anything. Every single thing that happened to him in the show was played as if it was a surprise to Danny, right up until that last scene. A few times I even felt like he was getting worse at figuring things out.
When Davos says "Worst Iron Fist ever" I laughed out loud. I had to wonder why anybody would want to write a show where the mandate is to portray the lead character like that all the way through the show. First few episodes, OK. Maybe even the first half of the season. But at some point he's got to find a swagger.
Now, the fight scenes. They never got better. Kind of got worse as the series went along. They never felt dramatic, tense, or dangerous. The actors stunt doubles in some cases were 70's cop show obvious. Did not work. Bakuto's stunt double in particular was given a terrible wig.
Frankly I could have forgiven the mediocre fighting if the story was compelling. And maybe if the fight scenes were amazing, I could have forgiven the poorly done storytelling. Maybe if the performances elevated the writing I could have . . . to be fair, some of the performances did elevate the writing some of the time. Tom Pelphrey and Rosario Dawson were good.
Also on a few positive note, I liked the effect used for The Iron Fist itself. I wondered how that would be done. I hope they do something interesting with that in The Defenders. In the comics the fist is frequently drawn with smoke trails or a light trails, and his fist is encased in light from the outside.
Might be interesting if, as Danny becomes better at using the power, the power grows and gets more dramatic visually.
The ending/story wrap up was, like most of the series for me, not very compelling or interesting. The final episode and the last few scenes didn't even make sense to me, particularly with Joy. That was out of left field.
The very last scene looked like it was done with carboard and paper mache. It just seemed so poorly done. That kind of thing can be charming. Just felt cheap to me.
The writing really seemed like every episode was a first draft, and they just wrote it as they went along not sure how it was going to end, and then they just decided to wrap it all up in a very cliche manner, because they had to write an ending, and they didn't have the interest or maybe time to come up with anything better. So they just wrote it, good or bad, and went with it.
Finn Jones plays Danny Rand like a bewildered child who's not smart enough to figure out anything on his own. Partly because of the writing, yes, but he was so overboard on his constant wide eyed portrayal, it started to get on my nerves around episode 7. But even in the last episode it didn't feel like Danny evolved or learned anything from the events of the show.
I accepted that I was watching a show with a lead character who is just stupid. Not naive, because even naive people can eventually get the hang of things, change, and get better. Danny never got the hang of anything. Every single thing that happened to him in the show was played as if it was a surprise to Danny, right up until that last scene. A few times I even felt like he was getting worse at figuring things out.
When Davos says "Worst Iron Fist ever" I laughed out loud. I had to wonder why anybody would want to write a show where the mandate is to portray the lead character like that all the way through the show. First few episodes, OK. Maybe even the first half of the season. But at some point he's got to find a swagger.
Now, the fight scenes. They never got better. Kind of got worse as the series went along. They never felt dramatic, tense, or dangerous. The actors stunt doubles in some cases were 70's cop show obvious. Did not work. Bakuto's stunt double in particular was given a terrible wig.
Frankly I could have forgiven the mediocre fighting if the story was compelling. And maybe if the fight scenes were amazing, I could have forgiven the poorly done storytelling. Maybe if the performances elevated the writing I could have . . . to be fair, some of the performances did elevate the writing some of the time. Tom Pelphrey and Rosario Dawson were good.
Also on a few positive note, I liked the effect used for The Iron Fist itself. I wondered how that would be done. I hope they do something interesting with that in The Defenders. In the comics the fist is frequently drawn with smoke trails or a light trails, and his fist is encased in light from the outside.
Might be interesting if, as Danny becomes better at using the power, the power grows and gets more dramatic visually.
sp1derman
Sr Member
Late posting but I watched it over 2 days upon release (the only show I binge is Dardevil, when season 3 has an official release I'll even be booking the day of work).
I really Do not get the hate for this show to me it was leaps better then like cage and slightly more entertaining then Jessica Jones.
Maybe it's because I never liked iron fist in the comics that I enjoyed the show it reminded me off classic old school king fu films
Can't wait for defenders if I had my way all we'd have are daredevil and punisher seasons every year
I really Do not get the hate for this show to me it was leaps better then like cage and slightly more entertaining then Jessica Jones.
Maybe it's because I never liked iron fist in the comics that I enjoyed the show it reminded me off classic old school king fu films
Can't wait for defenders if I had my way all we'd have are daredevil and punisher seasons every year
Solo4114
Master Member
I'm just through Episode 8 and I've enjoyed it thus far.
The fight sequences, yeah, need work, but on the whole, I'm accepting them for what they are. Jones' explanation about having only 3 weeks of training before shooting, and doing choreography like 15 min before a scene strikes me as an understandable reason for him not really being that convincing, but also as a really BAD production schedule.
Henwick's fighting ability is much more convincing, but she did a TV show in the UK several years ago where she trained in wushu for the role, so she was coming in with some background, even if she doesn't regularly practice.
Anyway, as far as the acting and the character, I've actually found that to be one of the stronger points of the story. If I understand the point of the story, then Jones is playing it perfectly.
Danny is basically a 12 year old boy in a man's body, suffering from immense psychological trauma from which he has never recovered and with which he's never even dealt at all. The sequence with him and Claire on the plane, with her talking him down, that was like the first and ONLY therapy he's ever had, and it shows. The monks did a serious number on him, training him to be the Iron Fist, but basically screwing him up in the process.
I think the real weakness is the plotting of the show, and the creative decision to lock Danny into the role of "perpetual noob" for the series (or at least as much as I've seen). The character needs to evolve. If not in this season, then over the course of the Defenders or in between seasons. He needs to get to a point where the death of his parents SO screws him up, as it clearly does. I don't mind him having this duality of "Defend Kun L'un, or defend the world?" That, I think, could be an interesting story. But Danny needs to move past his trauma and grow up fast, and the character can't be a noob forever or he'll just get really boring.
The fight sequences, yeah, need work, but on the whole, I'm accepting them for what they are. Jones' explanation about having only 3 weeks of training before shooting, and doing choreography like 15 min before a scene strikes me as an understandable reason for him not really being that convincing, but also as a really BAD production schedule.
Henwick's fighting ability is much more convincing, but she did a TV show in the UK several years ago where she trained in wushu for the role, so she was coming in with some background, even if she doesn't regularly practice.
Anyway, as far as the acting and the character, I've actually found that to be one of the stronger points of the story. If I understand the point of the story, then Jones is playing it perfectly.
Danny is basically a 12 year old boy in a man's body, suffering from immense psychological trauma from which he has never recovered and with which he's never even dealt at all. The sequence with him and Claire on the plane, with her talking him down, that was like the first and ONLY therapy he's ever had, and it shows. The monks did a serious number on him, training him to be the Iron Fist, but basically screwing him up in the process.
I think the real weakness is the plotting of the show, and the creative decision to lock Danny into the role of "perpetual noob" for the series (or at least as much as I've seen). The character needs to evolve. If not in this season, then over the course of the Defenders or in between seasons. He needs to get to a point where the death of his parents SO screws him up, as it clearly does. I don't mind him having this duality of "Defend Kun L'un, or defend the world?" That, I think, could be an interesting story. But Danny needs to move past his trauma and grow up fast, and the character can't be a noob forever or he'll just get really boring.
Riceball
Master Member
I've been watching this new season and I'm about halfway through and I'm liking it quite a bit, it's much, much better than season 1. Danny is far less whiney, but still a bit too trusting and naive. The big thing is that the fight chroeography is much, much improved this season, the cast actually look like they know how to fight now and while there are still a bunch of cuts in each fight scene but they're not like quick, 1 second cuts, they linger a bit before cutting so that's good.
Because you said so I'm going to give it a chance.
Riceball
Master Member
I just finished watching all of season 2 and I have to say that it was a massive improvement over the first season. Much better fight choreagraphy, better acting, and the characters are written to be much more interesting and we get far less whiny Danny, but we do get a bit of whiny Davos though. The one thing that I liked the most about this season was that it really got me excited for season 3, if they continue what they showed at the end of the season finale then S3 is going to be seriously awesome.
For those watching but haven't finished yet, keep on watching through the credits of the season finale, there's an after credits scene along the same line as the Marvel movies.
For those watching but haven't finished yet, keep on watching through the credits of the season finale, there's an after credits scene along the same line as the Marvel movies.
annanake
Sr Member
I'm confused as hell !!!
Danny trained since childhood and became the iron fist .
But he has to talk his girlfriend into training him ?????
Because .... Reasons ??
What He forgot everything when he lost the iron fist ?
Why don't they make her the iron fist she has all the fight scenes , the decent ones anyway .
Danny trained since childhood and became the iron fist .
But he has to talk his girlfriend into training him ?????
Because .... Reasons ??
What He forgot everything when he lost the iron fist ?
Why don't they make her the iron fist she has all the fight scenes , the decent ones anyway .
Last edited:
I completely agree
As soon as I heard the name of the employer and saw the 1911s, I was instantly stoked for the 3rd season
Riceball
Master Member
Yeah, I didn't quite understand that either, esp. since Colleen seems to the weakest of all of the highly trained fighters on the show. The only times that she's shown to be particularly good is against half trained cage fighters, street thugs and gangsters, and the Crane Sisters. But against people the caliber of Davos or Walker and she looks like Misty going up against a trained figher. So, yeah, I didn't really get what Danny had to learn from Colleen unless it was how to use a katana, but obviously wasn't the case. Plus Colleen fought Danny almost exclusively using a staff, which is good if Davos liked using the staff, but he doesn't, so how does training against someone using a staff prepare to fight someone who uses only their hand and feet?
- - - Updated - - -
Yeah, but do you want to have to get a ginormous tattoo made from his blood and burnt skin in order to get that iron fist? I sure as hell wouldn't, that just sounds nasty to me and a sure fire way to get one hell of an infection or a nice blood borne diesease.
annanake
Sr Member
Yeah, I didn't quite understand that either, esp. since Colleen
seems to the weakest of all of the highly trained fighters on the show. The only times that she's shown to be particularly good is against half trained cage fighters, street thugs and gangsters, and the Crane Sisters. But against people the caliber of Davos or Walker and she looks like Misty going up against a trained figher. So, yeah, I didn't really get what Danny had to learn from Colleen unless it was how to use a katana, but obviously wasn't the case. Plus Colleen fought Danny almost exclusively using a staff, which is good if Davos liked using the staff, but he doesn't, so how does training against someone using a staff prepare to fight someone who uses only their hand and feet?
- - - Updated - - -
Yeah, but do you want to have to get a ginormous tattoo made from his blood and burnt skin in order to get that iron fist? I sure as hell wouldn't, that just sounds nasty to me and a sure fire way to get one hell of an infection or a nice blood borne diesease.
Pretty sure the Dragon will burn out the hepatitis
Did anyone notice that Danny says he can feel the dragon watching him then see the eyes behind characters in different scenes? Most of the time they appear has distant red lights. For instance Danny punching the door in the basement. There are two round red lights behind him.
kuzushi
Well-Known Member
Marvel fan, so I watched this.. But this show still bothers me. Season 2 was better. In season 1, Danny acts like a bratty 10 year old who likes to quote fortune cookies.
Thankfully, that’s changed. huge improvement. Now Danny is just Normal IQ (or slightly below still). But I gotta say, if Davos and Danny were the two best of Kun Lun. that place must be full of emotionally and mentally stunted morons.
I guess it’s the best they could do. I think the show runners painted themselves into a corner by keeping Danny white. In 2018, it just comes across as cringey instead of cool every time they have Danny be the expert on anything ancient or Asian.
Thankfully, that’s changed. huge improvement. Now Danny is just Normal IQ (or slightly below still). But I gotta say, if Davos and Danny were the two best of Kun Lun. that place must be full of emotionally and mentally stunted morons.
I guess it’s the best they could do. I think the show runners painted themselves into a corner by keeping Danny white. In 2018, it just comes across as cringey instead of cool every time they have Danny be the expert on anything ancient or Asian.
Last edited:
