Fiberglass or Rondo?

ProWerewolf

New Member
Hey all. I put together a pepakura Deathstroke mask recently to try my hand at resin and fiberglass and so far I'm impressed with the results. But in my research, I came across Cereal Kill3r's videos on Youtube where he lines the inside of his pepped armor with a 1:1 resin/bondo mix that he calls Rondo. Two layers of fiberglass and resin in my mask has made it practically bullet proof (not really) but I used fiberglass cloth and strands of it get everywhere and my gloves tend to stick to the piece of cloth after a while and it can be a real pain in the ass to work with. I was considering doing another quick mask to try out Rondo but it means buying more resin and more bondo and outside of of CK Dave's Halo armor videos, I haven't seen too many mentions of it. Is it a thing? It seems like it might be easier to work with since you just brush it on and I don't have to press down fibrous pieces of FG cloth.

Thoughts?
 
Rondo would be used to stiffen the helmet/mask/etc and provide a finished surface when you're working with a paper model that is in many cases enclosed.. It's fluid and self leveling and will fill any recesses. You would then apply fiberglass matte to the backside. The matte is where the strength comes in - not resin or body filler.

If you apply resin/matte without a coat of rondo first, you could have a surface that isn't that smooth and would then have to coat the matte with body filler.
 
What i do, (currently working on 2 deathstroke masks)
pep file, paper model, "Rondo" on the inside to make it rigid. Resin the paper so that it's gets saturated and hardens.
bondo on the exterior, sand (repeat until satisfied)
make a fiberglass mold, to cast. I've never cast in carbon fiber and thinking of giving it a shot on a 2nd or 3rd casting, once i'm comfortable doing it.
 
What I did on my Dredd helm. (in the following order)

Build the pep.
Resin the cardstock to add stiffness.
Fiberglass the inside for strength
Rondo the inside to really finish off the strength, and it covers up the rough spiky fiberglass.
Bondo outside for sanding.
 
Rondo has very little strength. Resin is not a medium to add strength. It's purely a bonding agent. Strength comes from from fiberglass cloth.
Rondo is a nice option to easily firm something up, but it won't stand up to any serious beating.
 
What i do, (currently working on 2 deathstroke masks)
pep file, paper model, "Rondo" on the inside to make it rigid. Resin the paper so that it's gets saturated and hardens.
bondo on the exterior, sand (repeat until satisfied)
make a fiberglass mold, to cast. I've never cast in carbon fiber and thinking of giving it a shot on a 2nd or 3rd casting, once i'm comfortable doing it.

Technically, you don't "cast" in fiberglass or carbon, it is called a "layup". But that aside, don't bother with carbon fiber unless you have very good skills in "maximum cloth, minimum resin" lay ups, or you plan to vacuum bag your lay up. Carbon fiber is one of those subjects that people talk about and either leave out important facts or in most cases don't know them. Carbon is lighter than glass fiber, but as was said, your strength comes from the fiber, not the resin and without vacuum bagging the layup, to "press out" excess resin, your resin to fiber ration is not sufficiently low (resin) to give you a significant difference in weight to strength. Also, you want to use epoxy resin with carbon fiber, not polyester.

I have never used pepakura in it's "formal technique", meaning using a computer to make a polygon version of an object and create a card stock or paper model. But, over the years I have many times made card stock or foamcore "molds" for an item in order to quickly and accurately prototype an object in fiberglass.
Something you might try: Instead of soaking the paper with resin and adding material in to, and on to your paper model, try making your pepakura model with card stock (like business card thickness). Tape up model on the outside, not worrying about the thickness of tape.
Then using a solvent based wax or PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) coat the inside of your pepakura model. The liquid PVA or solvent based wax should be thin enough so that it soaks into the paper/ card stock. (it may require two coats depending on what your release is)
You now essentially have a mold. If you mix auto-body filler (Bondo) with polyester resin, until it is a pour-able consistency, you can coat the inside of you model with an 1/8" layer of this sandable "gel coat". Then, lay up glass fiber with polyester resin inside of this bondo/resing surface coat.
When it's cured, peal off the paper and you have a outer surface that is as smooth at the paper and you only need sand off the corners. If you need to build up any areas, the body filler will adhere great to the Bondo/resin surface coat after a mild sanding. This technique allows you to control the outer surface of your part much better, thus requiring far less cleanup and better accuracy to you original pepakura pattern.
 
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Technically, you don't "cast" in fiberglass or carbon, it is called a "layup". But that aside, don't bother with carbon fiber unless you have very good skills in "maximum cloth, minimum resin" lay ups, or you plan to vacuum bag your lay up. Carbon fiber is one of those subjects that people talk about and either leave out important facts or in most cases don't know them. Carbon is lighter than glass fiber, but as was said, your strength comes from the fiber, not the resin and without vacuum bagging the layup, to "press out" excess resin, your resin to fiber ration is not sufficiently low (resin) to give you a significant difference in weight to strength. Also, you want to use epoxy resin with carbon fiber, not polyester.

I have never used pepakura in it's "formal technique", meaning using a computer to make a polygon version of an object and create a card stock or paper model. But, over the years I have many times made card stock or foamcore "molds" for an item in order to quickly and accurately prototype an object in fiberglass.
Something you might try: Instead of soaking the paper with resin and adding material in to, and on to your paper model, try making your pepakura model with card stock (like business card thickness). Tape up model on the outside, not worrying about the thickness of tape.
Then using a solvent based wax or PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) coat the inside of your pepakura model. The liquid PVA or solvent based wax should be thin enough so that it soaks into the paper/ card stock. (it may require two coats depending on what your release is)
You now essentially have a mold. If you mix auto-body filler (Bondo) with polyester resin, until it is a pour-able consistency, you can coat the inside of you model with an 1/8" layer of this sandable "gel coat". Then, lay up glass fiber with polyester resin inside of this bondo/resing surface coat.
When it's cured, peal off the paper and you have a outer surface that is as smooth at the paper and you only need sand off the corners. If you need to build up any areas, the body filler will adhere great to the Bondo/resin surface coat after a mild sanding. This technique allows you to control the outer surface of your part much better, thus requiring far less cleanup and better accuracy to you original pepakura pattern.

Right on all counts. I was being vague as most people aren't overly familiar with true fiberglass (polyester vs epoxy) or cloth materials (glass vs carbon vs kevlar vs hybrid).
Correct on layup vs cast, again trying to use terms people can easily associate.

I'm super curious on attempting your method proposed on the pepakura process.
What i've done previously is:
Build pep model on cardstock 110 wieght paper
Resin & Bondo combo (Rondo/ "gel coat") the inside to made the model rigid
epoxy resin the cardstock to seal up all the pores of the paper
bondo the exterior and sand to shape, (repeat as needed)
Once the "plug" is at it's desired shape, Primer (fill primer)
Wax repeatedly to seal it.
PVA (5 to 10 coats)
Make a fiberglass mold (in as many parts as needed (i did an army of 2 mask with a 2 part mold, left and right)
remove plug, clean off pva
wax mold
PVA
Layup part.

anyhow, just wanted to share my thoughts and process. I'm again very curious to try your proposal.
 
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The technique you describe is like what I have heard other people do. The issue of course is when you ad bondo on top of your paper, you loose any detail of you original shape. You are also at the mercy of the smoothness and accuracy of the bondo application you do on the outer surface, and if you sand down far enough, you hit the paper and have a completely different type of material you have to deal with, when it comes to sanding and finishing.
The other advantage with using the peperkura as a mold, is you can line up all you edges very nicely and all your taping and gluing is on the outside. You can also add foamcore braces to the outside to keep your piece from distorting while you work with it. This is also very helpful if you want to make your part in 2 halves.
Frankly, I don't understand why you would do it any other way.
 
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