Star Trek: Discovery (2017)

How are you watching Star Trek: Discovery?

  • Signed up for CBS All Access before watching the premiere

    Votes: 13 9.1%
  • Signed up for CBS All Access after watching the premiere

    Votes: 13 9.1%
  • Not signing up, but will watch if it's available for free

    Votes: 82 57.3%
  • On Netflix (Non-US viewer)

    Votes: 35 24.5%

  • Total voters
    143
I never had a problem with the TMP+ Klingons. I saw the interviews early where Gene and Freddie said it was what they always wanted them too look like, but didn't have the budget. Prior to DS9's "Blood Oath", I had no problem mentally retconning the TOS Klingons to look like Chang. How Gene put it at the time was that the Klingons we saw in the series were the Southern Klingons, and these were the Northern Klingons. The ancillary materials even had a meta-storyline about the bumpy-headed race gaining ascendency over the smoother-headed race in the Empire. Then "Blood Oath" and "Trials and Tribble-ations" borked that, and Enterprise had to pick up the pieces of trying to find an even vaguely plausible explanation. *sigh*

As for the Starfleet delta sub-dyed into the fabric, I give you the Trek09 uniforms:

star-trek-2009-uniform-detail.jpg


--Jonah
 
LOL Southern Klingons. That would explain the Skoal Bandits that some of them had in their lips, and the empty bloodwine cans they kept around to spit in…


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This looks even worse than it did initially, if anything. What relation does this have to TOS? It doesn't even really fit with ENT either. It's overly detailed with aztec'ing and other random panels, but none of it is actually anything in particular. I don't see any of the care or basis in reality of previous series, it's just following the current trend of overly detailed but ultimately empty and thoughtless design.
 
This looks even worse than it did initially, if anything. What relation does this have to TOS?
Unless you feel that no Star Trek should exist unless it stars Kirk and the original crew, the simple answer is simple. It's Star Trek.

It doesn't even really fit with ENT either.

It's overly detailed with aztec'ing and other random panels, but none of it is actually anything in particular. I don't see any of the care or basis in reality of previous series, it's just following the current trend of overly detailed but ultimately empty and thoughtless design.

Compared to the NX, the Discovery actually looks like it will have a dynamic look to it. Kind of like the Enterprise Refit. I think it's angle like design will really compliment a lot of visual effects shots in a way that the NX simply couldn't pull off.

How long before I get a toy of this sucker?
 
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...Compared to the NX, the Discovery actually looks like it will have a dynamic look to it. Kind of like the Enterprise Refit. I think it's angle like design will really compliment a lot of visual effects shots in a way that the NX simply couldn't pull off...

The NX was a cool design and looked great from any angle. I know folks compare it to the Akira but whateva, that was a throwaway ship that was barely seen. The Discovery looks like an Enterprise/Klingon cruiser kit bash, a huge step down from even the McQuarrie concept art it was aped from.
 
The NX was a cool design and looked great from any angle. I know folks compare it to the Akira but whateva, that was a throwaway ship that was barely seen. The Discovery looks like an Enterprise/Klingon cruiser kit bash, a huge step down from even the McQuarrie concept art it was aped from.

I think you nailed it. If I recall correctly, they based this on a McQuarrie sketch from TOS, right? It still doesn't fit with the rest of the Federation hull designs IMO.
 
I think you nailed it. If I recall correctly, they based this on a McQuarrie sketch from TOS, right? It still doesn't fit with the rest of the Federation hull designs IMO.

The McQuarrie sketch was for TMP. I don't know all the details, but I figure he was one of the hot design guys after Star Wars and Galactica so he was asked to submit his take on an updated Enterprise. Totally wrong for the Enterprise IMO, but could be cool as some other maybe experimental Starfleet ship. It almost looks like it was inspired by the IDIC medallion. But the Discovery version changed everything cool about it, it's just JJ inspired blah.
 
Unless you feel that no Star Trek should exist unless it stars Kirk and the original crew, the simple answer is simple. It's Star Trek.

I didn't say anything remotely along those lines. Hey, I'm definitely no TOS purist, especially where contradictions with later series are concerned, but if you're setting a show in the prime universe 10 years before TOS, it makes sense that it should bear some passing resemblance to it at least, or else why even bother? Everything I've seen shows the same shallow surface level interpretation of the JJ universe, with no respect for canon at all.
ENT suffered a lot of the same problems, and that was with being a full 100 years before anything else seen on screen. This is supposedly only a few years away from Kirk's time.

They really should have set this post Nemesis/Voyager and given themselves free rein to deviate however they see fit, but clearly they're trying to cash in on the new movie fans.
 
At the end of the day, almost everything in this discussion is subjective, but I would love for you to flesh out what "respect for canon" means to you.

There are a lot of ways that can be taken. Did you expect JJ to build duplicates of the TOS sets?

Sure, the redesigned Klingons is irksome, but beyond that, I'm not quite sure I get what you mean. I'm at least going to wait to see a few episodes before I make such a sweeping conclusion.
 
At the end of the day, almost everything in this discussion is subjective, but I would love for you to flesh out what "respect for canon" means to you.

There are a lot of ways that can be taken. Did you expect JJ to build duplicates of the TOS sets?

Sure, the redesigned Klingons is irksome, but beyond that, I'm not quite sure I get what you mean. I'm at least going to wait to see a few episodes before I make such a sweeping conclusion.

I definitely wouldn't want them to duplicate the TOS set style in 2017 (unless maybe they were actually onboard the 1701 itself), but at the same time, it makes little sense to me in universe for literally every single design aspect of ship exteriors, ship interiors, technology, uniforms, alien species, space suits, whatever else you can name etc, to become unrecognizable in such a short span. It breaks my sense of immersion or reality or progression or respect for the franchise.

But what about TOS -> TMP? I respect that the original series is a product of its time, with constraints of budget and technology (I think most of the show is just a laugh), so I'm very lenient to the changes that later series and films have made around it, especially with TMP as the closest and biggest deviation. However, they were also moving forward in time with nothing to contradict what came next, and only had 3 seasons of an old TV show covering a span of 3 years to worry about, not 50 years of established canon from 700+ episodes of television and 10 (prime universe) movies, covering a span of over a hundred years in either direction, attempting to paint a somewhat consistent linear progression.

But it's not always consistent! Yes, in that time they've had many notable and obvious contradictions, as expected from shows created in different eras with different crews and different writers, but overall I think they've they've generally done a pretty good job of respecting what came before it.

But that's still sounding pretty subjective, as you've pointed out. You're right that it's subjective, because at the end of the day, it hasn't been 100% internally consistent at all, and I can't justify every little thing I accept or don't accept without some contradiction, or always give reasoning beyond "I'm ok with this change but not this one". Some things the head canon can accept, some things it can't. That's probably going to have a lot to do with our own history with the franchise, and what we personally value from it.

That all said, I feel they could have modernized the designs while still maintaining stronger style cues to tie it into the original timeline. The bridge we've seen is straight out of JJ Trek to me, with the open window viewscreen, holographic HUD, dark and moody metallic look with lens flares etc. It's following the current trend of what "spacey" things look like, rather than being a modern interpretation of old Trek is. Imo of course.

I'd like to think I'll give the show a fair chance. I'm just not optimistic based on anything I've seen or heard so far. Each to their own. If you dig it, you dig it. :thumbsup
 
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