Vader MPP lightsabers details and specifications

If by Roy's summary you mean the lightsaber bible I made and he's hosting-- then yes :)

Top post in this forum too. There's two pretty decent images of the black bars on page 25.
 
Thanks. So it's possible that the v2 black sidebars with undamaged lever saber is the hero/primary, but by chance was not seen in many shots and also by chance was not photographed for Chronicles- that is pretty interesting. Now I am leaning toward ordering the black sidebars from Roman. By guidebook, do you mean Roy's excellent summary, or perhaps partsofsw?

The V2 may have been intended to he the Hero (i honestly dont know) but the silver sidebar version is the one that ended up being the hero by default.




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More than likely youre right.

I cant see a flash shroud made of steel though.
Also, the shoulders on this saber dont have the same angle as the common MPP shrouds and theres one shoulder on this that has a chunk cut out if it. Looks like a machining error.





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neat
do you have pics of these details? super interested - i'm thinking they tried to make a replacement for a damaged shroud and found it wasn't worth their while after the first one lol
 
neat
do you have pics of these details? super interested - i'm thinking they tried to make a replacement for a damaged shroud and found it wasn't worth their while after the first one lol

My theory, which in not 100% sold on, is that the original shroud may have gotten damaged or dropped, they couldnt find a replacement MPP, and decided to machine a new shroud made of steel to withstand any further drops or damage.
Seeing that MPPS are difficult to find, even in the age of Ebay, it wouldnt be be that outlandish that they had an even harder time finding another one back then.
Also, There were several versions of Vaders saber that were fabricated from metal tubes and graflexes which werent MPPs.
The production department didnt seem to have a problem making shrouds for those sabers.
Finally, the shoulders for those fabricated shrouds also look the same
As the ESB Hero saber.
Straight shoulders rather than angled.
 
But why do that when they just made a block and slapped it on a stunt for ANH and ROTJ? I guess maybe they thought the hero deserved more love? Everything else is so irregular due to quick fixes I'm still not seeing why in this one case they'd do it the slow and hard way.
 
But why do that when they just made a block and slapped it on a stunt for ANH and ROTJ? I guess maybe they thought the hero deserved more love?

Yes, probably because it was the hero which is more likely to get the most clear shots in the film.
And actually did.

The main point is- the prop department had no problem machining parts for the stunt sabers...so why not for the Hero which would get clearer screen shots?




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In the scene where Vader force chokes the dude, you can see the black side bar V2 fairly clearly.

I am almost prepared to agree with you. We have two glimpses of the saber hanging from Vader's belt while he is strangling Captain Antilles. At 5:43 for 15 frames you can see the clamp but no suggestion of a lever or sidebars. You can, however, tell it is the clamp and its location on the flash body because you can see plenty of silver between the clamp and the grips -- just like the spacing when we see it with silver side bars.


Next there are about 8 frames at 6:04 where you can kind of see it when he throws Captain Antilles body to the ground -- keep in mind that the saber is in motion in these frames and is blurred. Then, if you advance a further 11 frames, you have a "flash" of 2-3 frames where you can briefly see it again. You see something bright or silver where the clamp is and the orientation does not appear to suggest it is a side bar. What it could be -- to throw a monkey wrench into things -- is the bubble strip. Hold up your Sabers in a similar orientation and you'll see what I mean. My apologies for the crappy photo but VLC Media sucks so I can't do screen grabs very well so I took a picture off the TV. This is the clearest frame which is the very last in the cycle before it cuts:

20170218_122217.jpg

What I will say is that, if clamp placement and orientation are at all consistent, and IF the side bars are indeed black in this shot, then what we have here is a "hybrid" version because the spacing of the clamp is consistent with the silver bar version BUT the lever is not there like it is in the Death Star scene.

So, to continue this threads tradition of twisting facts to fit our theories, this saber may have black side bars but the lever is now on the other side and the clamp has spacing consistent with the silver side bar version. Could be that the lever broke between shooting this sequence and shooting Vader's entry onto the Tantive IV so they grabbed a nail to put it back together and accidentally put the side bars back on inverted "silver side out" (there used to be a common perception here that some side bars were only painted black on one side so that when you flipped them they were silver).
 
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Respectfully Gents here are some further thoughts -- I completely reject the notion that the production team went through the pains to craft an exact replica of the MPP "emitter" in steel. This seems like a gigantic waste of their time and resources and given the fact that the production was already over schedule to the extent that Fox executives were getting ready to pull the plug and go with what they had why would they do this??

I also have great difficulty with the notion that the black side bar version is the "Hero" version. I suppose for convenience's sake you could call it that but I think it's nonsense -- IT'S THE SAME SABER. If it were a totally different prop piece, like the Greedo Killer for example, then I would be better disposed to agree. But to call one version of it a "Hero" means that they went through a specific process to ensure it appeared a certain way and and the other was a back-up which I do not think this was the case. I think they are both the "Hero" version -- they had an accident with the prop, it broke, they fixed it, and goofed when they did. The question now becomes which variation do you chose to model for your collection black or silver side bars?

Unless you have something that we haven't seen, there is zero evidence to suggest that an MPP was used for any stunt work in ANH. The only thing that makes sense to me to call stunt work is the lightsaber duel and that was done using the motorized Graflex replica with the tip painted black. That is what appears in every production still I have seen. I will happily change that opinion when I see something that shows otherwise.

I'm sorry guys but we are waaaaay over-thinking this -- and I know this is the RPF and that's what we do here -- but we need to look deeper than a few screen grabs. We have to compare production timelines and the practicality of what we are suggesting.

My $.02

Dave
 
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Further thoughts -- I completely reject the notion that the production team went through the pains to craft an exact replica of the MPP "emitter" in steel. This seems like a gigantic waste of their time and given the fact that the production was already over schedule to the extent that Fox executives were getting ready to pull the plug why would they do this??

I also reject the notion that the black side bar version is the "Hero" version. I suppose for convenience's sake you could do this but I think it's nonsense -- IT'S THE SAME SABER. To call one version a "Hero" means that they went through a specific process to make it a certain way and I do not think this was the case. They had an accident with piece, it broke, they fixed it.

They is zero evidence to suggest that an MPP was used for any stunt work in ANH.

Agree with the hero saber being the silver version.

As far as the shroud and production issues, by that logic why did they bother creating a shroud block for the stunt sabers as well?

To my knowledge Ive never seen an MPP with the one step straight shoulders shroud, rather than the angled shoulder.
Seems off that there isnt a single photo showing such a shroud for an MPP.






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Very interesting. I've had good luck with VLC player caps from blu-ray rips, so I will try to post some direct caps tomorrow night. I assume the mpp clamp slips somewhat over time, especially after drops and adjustments between shots, so I am not sure if clamp position/orientation would indicate sidebar color. But I am intrigued by the idea that sidebars were installed backwards with silver side out and black side in. Do the black sidebars have a silver side?
 
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Very interesting. I've had good luck with VLC player caps from blu-ray rips, so I will try to post some direct caps tomorrow night. I assume the mpp clamp slips somewhat over time, especially after drops and rebuilds between shots, so I am not sure if clamp position/orientation would indicate sidebar color. But I am intrigued by the idea that sidebars were installed backwards with silver side out and black side in. Do the black sidebars have a silver side?

But assuming that the black sidebars are the same as the ones on the ESB Hero, that would mean the side bars would be trapezoid shaped oj the ANH too.
The ANH saber photo from the Chronicles pic shows them rectangular though.
Simply flipping them would not change their shape.







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Respectfully Gents here are some further thoughts -- I completely reject the notion that the production team went through the pains to craft an exact replica of the MPP "emitter" in steel. This seems like a gigantic waste of their time and resources and given the fact that the production was already over schedule to the extent that Fox executives were getting ready to pull the plug and go with what they had why would they do this??

I also have great difficulty with the notion that the black side bar version is the "Hero" version. I suppose for convenience's sake you could call it that but I think it's nonsense -- IT'S THE SAME SABER. If it were a totally different prop piece, like the Greedo Killer for example, then I would be better disposed to agree. But to call one version of it a "Hero" means that they went through a specific process to ensure it appeared a certain way and and the other was a back-up which I do not think this was the case. I think they are both the "Hero" version -- they had an accident with the prop, it broke, they fixed it, and goofed when they did. The question now becomes which variation do you chose to model for your collection black or silver side bars?

Unless you have something that we haven't seen, there is zero evidence to suggest that an MPP was used for any stunt work in ANH. The only thing that makes sense to me to call stunt work is the lightsaber duel and that was done using the motorized Graflex replica with the tip painted black. That is what appears in every production still I have seen. I will happily change that opinion when I see something that shows otherwise.

I'm sorry guys but we are waaaaay over-thinking this -- and I know this is the RPF and that's what we do here -- but we need to look deeper than a few screen grabs. We have to compare production timelines and the practicality of what we are suggesting.

My $.02

Dave


While I agree with you in general on the thought the prop department would take the time to make a steel cast with such detail when they cut corners everywhere else, I will say that we're talking about two things here. Bars and shrouds. We're talking about the bars for ANH, but the shroud we're talking about is from the ESB/ROTJ hero.
 
We're talking about the bars for ANH, but the shroud we're talking about is from the ESB/ROTJ hero.

Thanks Seth, I missed that part of the conversation -- that changes the game a little, lol. Definitely MPP stunt work in ESB which seems to have disappeared for Jedi.

Still uncertain about exactly replicating the shroud. Are the holes on the ESB hero shroud drilled completely through? If so, and it's being suggested it's a copy in steel, why would they go through the trouble to add that detail? You'd think they would fill them in when pulling a mold and leave it at that. Don'r know.

Dave
 
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My V2 theory is based on the fact that there are generally not only one of a prop made for a production. I don't think anyone will dispute that they probably bought as many MPPs and Graflexs that they could get a hold of prior to filming ANH.

Based on the photo evidence of the V2 that it appears to have black sidebars, the clamp repositioned and slid up against the t-tracks, and what appears to be an Exactra circuit board used as the clamp card, my supposition is that the ANH V2 survived and was carried over to the production of ESB and became what we know of as the the Vader hero lightsaber in ESB/ROTJ.
 
did some home work this afternoon before heading into work. watched ESB trying to find every shot of the MPP hanging on the belt. i dont believe there is any shots of the MPP with silver bars in ESB

this scene here the saber moves around alittle, i think we can see the bubbles here
star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6053.jpg


then later on we get this clear shot with the saber bouncing around. black side bars i believe for sure
star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6120.jpg


star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6129.jpg


while he's moving down we do see this flash, but again i believe its the bubbles reflecting light
star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6133.jpg


"he will join us or die, my master"
star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6279.jpg


star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-10379.jpg


star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-11057.jpg


star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-13476.jpg


am i missing something or is the silver side bars never seen in ESB?
 
did some home work this afternoon before heading into work. watched ESB trying to find every shot of the MPP hanging on the belt. i dont believe there is any shots of the MPP with silver bars in ESB

this scene here the saber moves around alittle, i think we can see the bubbles here
http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6053.jpg

then later on we get this clear shot with the saber bouncing around. black side bars i believe for sure
http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6120.jpg

http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6129.jpg

while he's moving down we do see this flash, but again i believe its the bubbles reflecting light
http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6133.jpg

"he will join us or die, my master"
http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6279.jpg

http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-10379.jpg

http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-11057.jpg


http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-13476.jpg

am i missing something or is the silver side bars never seen in ESB?


Only the black sidebar MPP appears in ESB

Both silver and black appear in ANH.
 
did some home work this afternoon before heading into work. watched ESB trying to find every shot of the MPP hanging on the belt. i dont believe there is any shots of the MPP with silver bars in ESB

this scene here the saber moves around alittle, i think we can see the bubbles here
http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6053.jpg

then later on we get this clear shot with the saber bouncing around. black side bars i believe for sure
http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6120.jpg

http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6129.jpg

while he's moving down we do see this flash, but again i believe its the bubbles reflecting light
http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6133.jpg

"he will join us or die, my master"
http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-6279.jpg

http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-10379.jpg

http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-11057.jpg

http://caps.pictures/198/0-starwars5/full/star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-13476.jpg

am i missing something or is the silver side bars never seen in ESB?

I don't think there's a question of silver sidebars in ESB; I think the consensus is black sidebars in ESB & ROTJ.
 

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