Keycube
Well-Known Member
I've no doubt! I wasn't trying to state anything to the contrary; sorry if something came off as such.
Solo: A Star Wars Story
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
I've no doubt! I wasn't trying to state anything to the contrary; sorry if something came off as such.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
You would have to peruse it and pursue it, within social media, because outside of that most people just don't care. A movie that makes sense and is not preaching to people seems more appreciated. Star Wars never had a diversity problem as a whole, anyway.
Diversity problem no, representation problem, yes. Which is the only thing KK is really out to change. And the problem I see too frequently is people see a female lead and instantly call it “preaching” or “SJW pandering” or “shoving politics down our throat when all that happen is a female was cast instead of a male.
It’s like the “I just want the best actor for the role” defense that only gets said when the part in question doesn’t go to a white dude.
It’s like the “I just want the best actor for the role” defense that only gets said when the part in question doesn’t go to a white dude.
I think the backlash comes not from the addition of female characters in and of itself - even leads. SW had always been pertty heavily male.Seems, though, that with 8, they tried to take it from heavily male to balance in one shot. Short of Benicio, it seemed like EVERY new character was female. One of the first pilots you saw in the first fight - female, Billie Lourde getting prominence (though she was in TFA, barely), Maz (rfa), Phasma (rfa), Holdo, Rose, Rose's sister, there was another lady on the bridge as well, etc. Short of Benicio, i think the only other new male with a line was Justin Theroux, with one short line and a First Order officer or two. Follow all that up with the two top characters of the Resistance are Leia and Rey.
I don't find it problematic in general, but i can see where some people take issue.
So, now, your main characters of relevance for the heroes, who we're supposed to identify with are: Leia (who won't be in 9), Rey, Rose, Maz, Billie Lourde, Poe and Finn. So it can be taken as a bit of a tidal shift. Frankly, i didn't realize they went as far as they did until i wrote this out
You’re not wrong—- but that only stands out given that normally we’d see nothing but dudes— like the entire OT, and that’s considered okay?
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Wait a minute so anyone that says they want the best actor for the role is racist/homophobic/misogynistic/whatever ist? Seriously? :lol
PantheraGem
Sr Member
Of course they are.
That is not what I said at all. Don’t put words in my mouth. I did not use any word that said that was an absolute.
Just that outside of Casting for Batman movies, that comment is usually said when a traditionally white male role has its gender or race changed. Not always, but more frequently. You can disagree, but check out page one of the Discovery thread for example.
But no need to get off my real point, which is that casting a female lead seems to trigger some people to jump right to OMGSJWWTF
Just that outside of Casting for Batman movies, that comment is usually said when a traditionally white male role has its gender or race changed. Not always, but more frequently. You can disagree, but check out page one of the Discovery thread for example.
But no need to get off my real point, which is that casting a female lead seems to trigger some people to jump right to OMGSJWWTF
PantheraGem
Sr Member
There are so many problems with the character of Rey, being female isn't one of them. I don't see people complaining about Ahsoka Tano and saying she'd be a great character if only she were a guy.
If Ahsohka was the lead of a live action SW movie there’d be a contingent of detractors. If you don’t like Rey, that’s fine. Just because you don’t like her that doesn’t mean I think you apply to what I am saying. If you got legit reasons to dislike her, or an entire movie that’s fine— but we both know there’s a contingent of fandom that hates just because she’s female.
Darth Fetty
Sr Member
As someone who deeply disliked this movie for a multitude of reasons, this contingent of fans you're referring to is quite regrettable because they detract from legitimate criticism of the movie. I find the greater representation in the cast to be one of the few decent aspects of the film since it adds quite a degree of freshness in representing a very diverse galaxy (except in the case of the First Order that I wish remained racist, sexist, speciesist fascists like the Empire in the OT in order to emphasize the difference between them and the Rebellion)... I just find this freshness in greater representation to have been wasted on horrific writing.
Keycube
Well-Known Member
For the record, everyone here is actually on the same page, right? We're talking about how a certain faction of society might view a female character as miscast strictly due to it being female? No doubt that exists. But no, it doesn't mean every criticism of a female character is inherently misogynistic. No reasonable person would ever claim that.
It got me to thinking though; If it were "Betty Solo/Kylie Ren" instead, and it were the same character from TFA, with all of that emotional resonance (IMHO), she would of course still be awesome, and I still would have bought her costume for Halloween last year. A well-written character transcends gender (assuming an original story, of course). It should be kind of a litmus test, really, as anyone that thinks otherwise likely has some deeper issues.
It got me to thinking though; If it were "Betty Solo/Kylie Ren" instead, and it were the same character from TFA, with all of that emotional resonance (IMHO), she would of course still be awesome, and I still would have bought her costume for Halloween last year.
A well-written character transcends gender (assuming an original story, of course). It should be kind of a litmus test, really, as anyone that thinks otherwise likely has some deeper issues.
Mr Webber
Master Member
If you actually go through all the posts here and in TLJ thread you will find that only about 2% of them actually deal with any of these issues at all. And rightly so.
The overwhelming amount of criticism is levelled primarily at the poor writing and lore mishandling over any views based on gender or gender based casting, SJW etc. Defence of these issues has been exactly along the same lines.
Thats why a forum such as this is the best place to discuss these issues as apart from an exception or two, people are speaking with their hearts and heads other than their wallets and agendas. A good example of why I dont even watch anything from say Collider is that they are only protecting their ability to continue in the future.
The overwhelming amount of criticism is levelled primarily at the poor writing and lore mishandling over any views based on gender or gender based casting, SJW etc. Defence of these issues has been exactly along the same lines.
Thats why a forum such as this is the best place to discuss these issues as apart from an exception or two, people are speaking with their hearts and heads other than their wallets and agendas. A good example of why I dont even watch anything from say Collider is that they are only protecting their ability to continue in the future.
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I didn't put any words in your mouth. You wrote:
That's why I asked. Because if that's racist I've been saying that all over defending the Black Panther movie. I also said "I don't care who is the movie as long as it's good." which appears to fit that "defense". Oh and then talking about the Fantastic Beast sequel I said "WTF cares who is gay or who isn't. I just want a good story." All those fit what you wrote. I just asked because I'm over the whole words that are "dog whistles" that supposedly show someone's secretly racist. I've never encountered a racist person who isn't afraid (for some reason) to tell you that explicity.
You played the if/than opposite game with my words.
Saying "the “I just want the best actor for the role” defense that only gets said when the part in question doesn’t go to a white dude" does not automatically mean I am saying you are racist if you ever say this. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "only," that probably made it seem more definitive than I meant it to be... but this is how debates seem to go in the modern era.
This mindset of, if one does not agree, they must support the exact opposite, or if you aren't a believer of X you MUST be a believer of Y is what people seem to be conditioned to respond to.
Just because the "best actor for the job" defense comes up as a strawman argument from people who don't want to admit they are racist or sexist, does not automatically mean anyone who says that is a racist/sexist in a different context.
If you're not that person, why suddenly act offended just to imply I said something I didn't?
And be fair, you didn't ask me a legit question, you tried to paint me as a crazy person make broad generalizations. Which, again, partially my fault for not framing my statement better... But like I said a couple posts up, we're all very aware of this subset of fandom who does the things I am saying. If it's not you, I'm not talking about you.
Speaking of Black Panther, here's a great example of crappy fandom:
https://www.themarysue.com/black-panther-rating-trolls/
All of this stemmed from me responding to a post that basically said Kathleen Kennedy plus women leads equals bad Star Wars. And I called that out as a fan and a liberal as preposterous. If you want to debate with me, cool, I'm down-- just attack my actual point instead of trying to discredit by quoting me and framing it in a different context... and I promise to use better words so I don't seem like I'm making broad generalizations either.
cboath
Master Member
I said basically that in a different thread before - the OT was basically all male.
however, you don't correct that by making the next one unbalanced in the other direction.
G W Zipper
Well-Known Member
Ok, let's see.
Young hero group. Rey, Poe, Finn.
Old hero group: Luke, Han, Leia.
New villain group: Snoke, Kylo, Hux, Phasma.
Old villain group: Darth, Palatine, Fett.
I'm leaving some off, to be sure, but c'mon. There's no way you can seriously say things have become overbalanced in the other direction.
Can't wait for Solo trailer to drop tomorrow so this crazy train of a topic can get back on track...
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OldKen
Master Member
This sounds more believable than the Super Bowl.
GMA 6:45am Monday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JncmWQFdyO8&app=desktop
GMA 6:45am Monday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JncmWQFdyO8&app=desktop
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