Solo: A Star Wars Story

I was thinking about that awkward reunion Han and Lando had in ESB. Almost like there was some sort of unfinished business between them. Chewie indicated some issue that Han insisted was a long time ago. Could it be Han had broken Lando's heart and he was unsure of his reception? Hmmmmm? It kind of makes sense from a certain point of view. Would Lando really be any different if he was pansexual?..

 
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I was thinking about that awkward reunion Han and Lando had in ESB. Almost like there was some sort of unfinished business between them. Chewie indicated some issue that Han insisted was a long time ago. Could it be Han had broken Lando's heart and he was unsure of his reception? Hmmmmm? It kind of makes sense from a certain point of view. Would Lando really be any different if he was pansexual?..

https://youtu.be/z4jeREy7Pbc

Yoda's full of schit.
 
Psab keel said:
Here is a Hispanic female fan who disagrees with you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-vSJr6Ciz0

She seems to make the same exact mistake I am trying to point out here. She jumps to the conclusion that Lando's character has somehow been changed, when there is no evidence that it actually has. The quotes are taken out of context and misinterpreted, followed by a knee-jerk reaction to the perceived implications, rather than what was actually said.

We actually get to hear her say the quote of Kasdan in the article: "I would have loved to have gotten a more explicitly LGBT character into this movie." To me, that implies that Lando has not been made explicitly LGBT, but that Kasdan personally wishes that he could introduce such a character. To her, she immediately jumps to the conclusion that others here seem to be jumping to, as if they somehow rearranged the quote into "Lando is explicity LGBT now".

The rest of her commentary is either quoting or reacting to what the authors of the articles said spinning the interview, or reacting to her own misinterpretations of the situation.

I don't even want to touch on her admittedly "old-fashioned" cultural aspects at play here, since you felt the need to point out her ethnicity, even though my Latina girlfriend is egging me on to, and has a lot to say on the subject of historical gender roles in Latin American cultures in the context of this video.

I am happy to concede that it isn't just the red pill and incel crowds that are having similar reactions, but it doesn't change anything.

Psab keel said:
I know George Takei had a problem with them changing Sulu's sexual orientation. They changed Sulu in the new Star Trek as a nod to Takei's sexuality but he was unhappy with the change because he felt it was unnecessary and not in service to the story.

That's what the issue is. Is it in service to the story? No.

That's all it ever was about. But people want to make it about more than that and accuse fanboys of being homophobic, whining, racists who hate women.

The fact that there are even debates about these things is absurd.

I'm with you and George Takei. That was an actual retcon, and it was totally unnecessary, and did not serve the story. Perhaps we can all find common ground here on that.

I don't see any evidence of such a retcon with Lando in this movie, however. Having Lando act flirty with either his droid side-kick or Han doesn't change anything about his character from what has been previously established. It certainly does not make him "gay" either.

Kasdan answering affirmatively to the question of Lando being pansexual, or elaborating about the sexual fluidity of portrayals by either actor playing Lando, does not make Lando gay, or change anything about the character that has ever been established. At most, it adds to the character.

I got a chuckle out of the part, in the video you linked, where she comments on this not being an explicit portrayal, but merely sub-text. You can see her realize for a moment that the whole issue is way overblown, but the video must go on.

Sub-text. There is a sub-textual theme of Lando's long-established pimp-like flamboyance and flirtatious nature potentially extending beyond human females. How does this possibility fly in the face of anything previously established about the character? I don't think that it does.

Psab keel said:
Here's the ultimate question:
ARE ANY OF THESE IDEAS OR CHARACTER CHANGES OR STORY DEVELOPMENTS IN SERVICE TO THE STORY?

IF NOT THEN WHAT THE HELL DOES ANY OF IT MATTER?

I am guessing that this addition to the character factors into his relationships with Han, L3, and ultimately the Millennium Falcon itself. And it does not involve putting any more sexuality into Star Wars than has previously existed before, in the OT even.

Established gambler, smuggler, and con-man Lando Calrissian owns the Millennium Falcon in this time period. His sidekick and co-pilot, the droid L3-37, with a personality that mimics females, has a complex relationship with Lando. She gets jealous when Lando even jokingly looks young Han up and down, which Lando does perhaps just to either mess with or manipulate both of them. Lando was previously established in ESB to blatantly flirt with Leia, right in front of Han, and continue this after Han's objections, and then sell Han out to Vader. Nothing out of character here.

New character L3-37 isn't just the co-pilot of the Millennium Falcon, but can act as a navigation computer as well. The whole plot with the Kessel Run being made in less than 12 parsecs (distance, of course) ends up being due to L3 coming up with a way to successfully navigate the path that it takes to do this.

However, the Falcon takes a ton of damage while doing it, helping it to shed the right parts to get the ship into the condition that will lead to the ship as we all first fell in love with it. L3, perhaps motivated by her "feelings" for Lando, is sacrificed in the process. With "her" loss, we see another side of Lando's character, that will lead him to be the man we first met in ESB, and eventually a hero in ROTJ.

But maybe it isn't completely over for L3 quite yet. The "strange computers" C-3PO commented about on the Falcon in ESB, the hybrid navi-computers that bicker with each other in the EU/Legends materials, end up being a result of L3's droid brain being integrated into the Falcon's navi-computer.

So, there you have it. That's my guess about not just the extent of sexuality displayed in the movie, but how it directly develops the story here, and provides backstory to the characters and ship we first met, without contradicting or retconning anything previously established.
 
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This over the top reaction is so bizarre. It's like freaking out because some secondary character drove a truck the first time we met him on screen and now people are furious that some people in the creative department think he may also have driven a van at some point - yet still never actually show it. This says SO MUCH more about the people reacting and their hangups than it does the writers, studio, or character.
 
I just think it's funny that the Japanese have had love robots for years, even longer in terms of their anime, but when SW gets in the mix that's the last straw.

Or Blade Runner, or Star Trek, or Battlestar Galactica...

I doubt there is any physical robot sex even suggested in the movie, or even anything to suggest the Star Wars universe is expanded to include robot sex in some dark and seedy underbelly. I don't think I would want to see that sort of thing in Star Wars either.

If anything, I would expect something more in line with the 2013 movie Her. Lando has an emotional relationship with L3, that crosses some romantic quasi-sexual line.

However, maybe an interesting way to look at this is to look at all the examples of artificial intelligence/robot/human love/sex, throughout science fiction and space fantasy, and realize that these are all examples, on some level, of pansexuality. All those characters would be pansexuals, in this same context. Any human character who had some level of sexual/emotional relationship with an AI or robot was a pansexual, in this same context.

And, if they previously had relations with humans, or went on to continue having relations with humans after their relations with the AI/robot, then this would be an example of sexual fluidity.

Tasha Yar was a pansexual, and an example of sexual fluidity. Data doesn't have a choice other than pansexual, but if he consistently sticks to human females, I guess he's not very fluid. Unless he thinks or fantasizes about it at some point, for 0.3492 nanoseconds.

Rick Deckard... I guess it depends if he really is a replicant or not, or does it?

If the RPF had been around back then, would people have cried foul about these scenarios, or only if there were web articles talking about it, and throwing terms like "pansexual" and "fluidity" in to the mix with regard to Blade Runner or ST:TNG?

Like I said. My bet is Lando might show some fun and (not so really) surprising sides to his established flamboyant sexy lover persona, here as a younger man, at most. I don't think it will be anything that contradicts anything previously established. Personally, I'm hoping a bit for the scenario where Lando and L3 have some interesting relationship and dynamic, that plays into the stories we are clearly interested in seeing play out in the movie. I already spelled out a possible scenario that would fit that bill well, at least for me.

Let me elaborate on that some more, and flesh out the character a little more than what we got in the OT, without retconning or contradicting anything previously established, like I would hope for from the writers:

Maybe the more fledgling gambler, smuggler, and con-man we meet here, obviously with plenty to prove, and maybe even overcompensating with his squeaky-clean pimped out freighter with a cape closet, has a tendency to put on more of a front persona at this stage in his life. He likes to keep everybody guessing about him. It plays well with his sabacc game. He lies, cheats, steals, and does whatever it takes to win. Indeed, everything you've heard about him is true, or at least that is what he wants people to believe. These are all part of the same skills that will eventually mature into his Administrator of Cloud City persona.

Lando can flirt with anybody, and use it to manipulate, and even confuse his opponents. Sizing up this new Han Solo kid, he can't help but mess with him a little bit, especially as soon as he sees L3 acting jealous. L3 can be difficult, but Lando knows just how to push her buttons, and get what he wants out of her. He's happy to make a scene of it too. Keep them all guessing...

This complex relationship between Lando and L3 factors into how the Kessel Run plays out. Lando uses this side of their relationship to manipulate L3 into going along with a crazy plan, that only she can help them navigate through, but it ultimately ends in the loss of L3. On L3's side, she ends up sacrificing herself, to save the man of her dreams, that she can never truly have anyway.

After the loss of L3, however, we see a different side of Lando after all. It wasn't all just a bunch of suave manipulation. He actually deeply cared for that droid, more than he would ever care to admit. He feels guilty, and it effects him, and sends him down a different path, that we know eventually leads to the responsible Administrator Lando that we first met on Cloud City in ESB.

There you go. Lando is fluidly pansexual here, in a sub-textual and not explicitly sexual way, that does not contradict anything previously established about the character. It serves the story, on an emotional level, and fleshes out and connects the dots with it to tell the stories of the < 12 parsec Kessel Run of lore, and also the story of how Lando's Millennium Falcon came to be Han Solo's Millennium Falcon as we first saw it.

Would this theoretical synopsis upset anybody if it turned out to be the case, or similar to it? I'm honestly curious.

And if it doesn't actually retcon anything previously established about the characters, and does serve the story, then what is the controversy really about? What makes people sick about this?

Does it fall back to the conspiracy theory, where the heads of Lucasfilm are in cahoots with the media to spin this story, with the ultimate goal of starting controversy that outs all the bigots, while being good PR for Disney and Lucasfilm for everybody else? Because if that's it... I got nothing for ya. Their plan worked, and I bet most of you all go see the movie. And then complain about it, and buy the eventual video release, and complain more about it again, maybe even with a new slant, depending on which way the tides have turned.

I know I will do all those things too. I'm just hoping it is complaining about how the cape room wouldn't actually fit in the volume of the space it is supposed to occupy, if you extrapolate where the actual hull is underneath all the crap Lando tacked on to his Falcon, or something like that. That's the RPF I've always loved. Not this hate and intolerance, or any of the political fear-mongering about agendas. I don't want that in my Star Wars, or my RPF.
 
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Damn ! @SpyderDan ... Why couldn’t you’ve written TLJ !?

:cheersGed

p.s. regarding your 2nd last paragraph .
Doe’s being angered / frustrated at how well loved , well established characters and what makes them so , having been upended and seemingly trashed for the sake of a self indulgent , pretentious film / maker = conspiracy seeking ?

If so , then I’m a fully fledged conspirator !;)
 
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I only pointed out her ethnicity with regards to your comment about heterosexual men living in their parents basement because the only thing missing from your description is their race. It's the rote response to many of the criticisms against a lot of the ideas presented in the new films. It's the same tactic that disregards female critics of TFA or TLJ and assumes that all haters are white men.

Is this whole debate about a fictional story absurd? Yes, of course! But to base accusations of latent racism, sexism etc against people because they point out the fact that these ideas don't always serve the story is ridiculous. I myself am a white heterosexual man. I own my own home, my wife is biracial and my best friend since childhood is gay.

Regardless I always come back to this, we are all fans and we are all entitled to our opinions.

BTW, humans having sex with robots is always creepy and disgusting whether it's in Anime or Star Wars. Lol
 
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There you go. Lando is fluidly pansexual here, in a sub-textual and not explicitly sexual way

Umm, I missed the part in Kasdan's statement qualifying Lando's sexual attraction to not just women, but men and droids, that it was all an act to manipulate people and machines and confuse gambling opponents.

But I think I know why I missed the part about it all being an act. Because he never said that.

No, Kasdan said Lando is sexually attracted to men and droids, in addition to women. Both Glover's Lando, and Billy Dee's Lando.

So don't try to fabricate BS stories out of whole cloth and make completely unsupported claims about what Kasdan meant,

The Wook
 
Damn ! @SpyderDan ... Why couldn’t you’ve written TLJ !?

:cheersGed

p.s. regarding your 2nd last paragraph .
Doe’s being angered / frustrated at how well loved , well established characters and what makes them so , having been upended and seemingly trashed for the sake of a self indulgent , pretentious film / maker = conspiracy seeking ?

If so , then I’m a fully fledged conspirator !;)

:cheersGed,

If I wrote TLJ, I bet some of us might like the version better, but I doubt the mainstream audience would receive it as well as what they got. If nothing else, mine wouldn't appease the Reylo shippers. :lol That's the catch, though. It has to make crazy money, and reach a much bigger audience than us original generation of Star Wars fans. It takes a toll on the art, as it always seems to do, but that is the nature of the beast. They have to appeal to all the right audiences, which proves to be impossible, especially in such divisive times as these.

I don't think there is anything wrong with drawing such conclusions, where they are true. I just have my doubts that such a thing is likely to be true in this case.

People attacked J. Kasdan, and blamed KK and Disney, gathering with the pitchforks in a reactionary way that didn't even follow with what was actually said by any of them. When that gets pointed out, the media starts taking the heat. Shine a light on that, and then it is the heads of Lucasfilm, with an ulterior motive to out the very people crying victim. What next, the Illuminati? Aliens?

The Sulu retcon is a perfectly valid situation to criticize as an example of a well established character being changed unnecessarily for the sake of a pretentious filmmaker. I don't see that here with Lando, though. Not yet, anyway.


I only pointed out her ethnicity with regards to your comment about heterosexual men living in their parents basement because the only thing missing from your description is their race. It's the rote response to many of the criticisms against a lot of the ideas presented in the new films. It's the same tactic that disregards female critics of TFA or TLJ and assumes that all haters are white men.

Is this whole debate about a fictional story absurd? Yes, of course! But to base accusations of latent racism, sexism etc against people because they point out the fact that these ideas don't always serve the story is ridiculous. I myself am a white heterosexual man. I own my own home, my wife is biracial and my best friend since childhood is gay.

Regardless I always come back to this, we are all fans and we are all entitled to our opinions.

BTW, humans having sex with robots is always creepy and disgusting whether it's in Anime or Star Wars. Lol

See, I didn't call out white heterosexual men. I'm a white heterosexual man myself, and also own my home, and am shopping for my second. We don't even really have basements here in Southern California, but one of my earliest childhood friends is gay as well, and seeing his struggles firsthand throughout my life makes me upset to witness intolerance and outrage over a subject such as this, in the year 2018.

I don't know if any of the members here are white males, heterosexual, or otherwise, except for the handful I have met over the years. I don't think the red pill or incel crowds, that I did call out and make spiteful generalizations about, are exclusively white, or male, or even heterosexual in some cases.

You pointed out an interesting example of similar conclusions being drawn by a Latina female. Hearing the audio from that video grabbed the attention of my girlfriend, a Guatemalan immigrant who came to the US as a small child, who is now a US citizen, a high school English teacher, and is graduating with her third masters degree tomorrow. She found the video very interesting to listen to this woman's reactions, personally relating to old-fashioned gender roles that are still ingrained in the culture, and relating that to the types of women who might end up in relationships with these red pill theory guys as a result of seeing these misogynistic ideas as in line with what their own culture has always demanded. The end result is that they find themselves in similar abusive relationships, even when dating outside of their ethnic culture.

Clearly, I have issues with this red pill theory stuff, and think it is nonsense. I'm willing to admit that those guys might actually have wives and girlfriends, though I would seriously wonder about how healthy those relationships could possibly be.

It's the incel guys that I'm convinced must me mostly be some combination of socially inept, or physically or emotionally repulsive, and live in their parents' basements.

I'm guessing the Venn diagram showing the two groups has a fair amount of crossover, though. Some actually put it to practice, while the others just grow like a mold in the dark corners of the internet, growing angrier and crazier by the day. I'm just sad when it looks like some of that mess is growing right here on our beloved RPF, and about Star Wars of all things. Some of this crying about Mary Sues and feminist SJW agendas in Star Wars just goes way too far, and is ruining Star Wars for everybody else just as surely as they claim is being caused by Disney et al.
 
I don't disagree with that, and your girlfriend sounds like an extraordinary person and my congratulations to her for her accomplishments. That's quite a feat.

There are certainly racist, homophobic, sexist people who happen to be fans. Sadly. I would guess that the vast majority aren't.

That's the problem with not only the movies but the country too. Obviously I'm not going to go down that road, but I just get frustrated when people have a tendency to start labeling others with rlsuch extreme terms as racist, etc. The media holds a large part of the blame but I don't think Lucasfilm helps itself sometimes by fanning the flames.

That's why I try and make acknowledgements that in the end we are all here as fans and none of us us any better than the other. What a shame that we all tend to be so reactionary one way or the other.

I just want the Star Wars movies (or b any movie for that matter) to be great.
 
Umm, I missed the part in Kasdan's statement qualifying Lando's sexual attraction to not just women, but men and droids, that it was all an act to manipulate people and machines and confuse gambling opponents.

But I think I know why I missed the part about it all being an act. Because he never said that.

No, Kasdan said Lando is sexually attracted to men and droids, in addition to women. Both Glover's Lando, and Billy Dee's Lando.

So don't try to fabricate BS stories out of whole cloth and make completely unsupported claims about what Kasdan meant,

The Wook

No Wook, you missed the part where the context of that quote is about he plot points I guessed at (even though I spelled that out, and even put guessed in bold there too). It was a hypothetical story line, based on what was actually said by the Kasdans, and what has already been spoiled on the internet. How does that get twisted into me being the one here who is misquoting Kasdan?

Neither Kasdans said Lando is sexually attracted to men and droids, in addition to women. Go back and read the interview. Show me the quote where either Kasdan said that, because I totally missed that part. The quotes about Glover and Billy Dee's portrayals use the word "fluidity", which you do not seem to understand or grasp the meaning of, and have equated to "gay". You are the one making unsupported claims about what Kasdan both said, meant, and even conspired with Glover beforehand about. Stick to the facts.

I will postulate possible story lines that would fit the actual quotes and known facts as much as I please, thanks. The difference is that I actually clearly said so, and posed it as an example of a possibility that could cover all the bases without being the scary gay Lando retcon that . You are just making up quotes and fabricating your own facts and presenting them as truth.

It was a few pages back, but let's refresh our memory with a quote of your post:

The Wook said:
Um, no, he had thought about it, clearly. Kasdan goes on to say, that not only is Donald Glover's Lando gay, but so is Billy Dee William's Lando.

And there were no doubt discussions about it with Glover during the film's production, and perhaps earlier.

The whole thing makes me sick.

The Wook

Again, neither Kasdan ever said that. Show me the quote. If you can't be bothered to go find it, it is in my post, verbatim. What you paraphrased does not remotely match the words or phrasing actually quoted in the interview, and that is an incontrovertible fact.

No doubt, huh? So, you can tell us, without a doubt, what Kasdan meant, and that he conspired with Glover as well? You are the ones telling us here what Kasdan thought about. But I'm the one fabricating BS stories and making unsupported claims?

Just go ahead and admit publicly what makes you "sick about this whole thing", that you chose to twist into some political agenda, and have to make up bogus quotes and mind-read to back up.

Let me explain for you a bit here: "sexual fluidity" does not equal "gay". "Pansexual" does not equal "gay". Answering a question does not equal pushing an agenda. Saying "I would have loved to have to have gotten a more explicitly LGBT character in this movie" does not state that he made any character gay, but actually just says what it actually says. It isn't even a question of semantics. It directly implies the opposite of what you claimed it does. These things mean what they mean, regardless of how you choose to interpret, or even purposely misinterpret to push you own agenda. All it takes is a little effort to actually get the quotes right, on here or in your head, before you go off on a knee-jerk emotional reaction to your own imagination and fears, man.
 
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