Solo: A Star Wars Story

I don't actually believe this . It can't be happening. Its not true.

Purely from a business point of view this is any inconcievably bad choice to have made. They have just reduced the potential Box Office of a Lando movie by possibly hundreds of millions,even if they get the go ahead to make it.

The success of Marvels "Black Panther" is due in no small part to the huge popularity of the way the characters are written. That very public support for this film to have been a black superhero movie has translated into a massive profit and goodwill as well as being well recieved by fans and critics alike . I doubt very much if it would have been half as successful if suddenly the new KIng of Wakanda announced he wanted to roger Captain America.

Lando was always held in high regard by similar fans and friends of mine because he represented a very strong role model for them within SW and sci fi universe . With a stroke of the pen Lucasfilm have probably destroyed much of the admiration and pride they had in his character.

Its all very well to try and promote tolerance and acceptance but this isn't the way to do it. Its going to upset alot of people.And you cannot call them biggots or haters when you take a character and dramatically alter a quality about them that they have been admired for four decades. Who would be stupid enough to do that and not expect a backlash?

I can't understand how anybody in charge of a franchise that directly depends on the powerful popularity of their characters with the general public and fandom to see the movies they are in think this is going to translate into a strong cinema performance.

I admire many of the films Kathleen Kennedy has produced and influenced , but it seems to me she truely doesn't understand the need for strong and popular male role models AS WELL as female ones. Or shes going outright to destroy them because shes incapable of controlling her own bias.
This however, is likely going to cost her, depending on just how accurate this rumour is. Its almost trolling.

Peter "Starlord" Quill can **** aliens and nobody will blink an eye. But hes a new guy. SW fandom is generations old and less forgiving of people treating them like idiots. How does this please anybody?

But I guess in terms of SW mythology it does explain Landos fondness for capes and why he wore Hans clothes at the end of TESB.

God help us.

I have zero interest being involved in this conversation but CutThumb I’m not sure you understood what was said by Kasdan. I would refer you back to Westies post, he very well expressed what Kasdan said and why it was entirely appropriate. Short version, there is no change to the Lando character in the film in regards to this topic, it was simply a writer having an internal monologue about additional character attributes Lando “might” have.
 
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Are you seriously saying that a gay or bisexual man cannot be "a very strong role model" or, more specifically,, a "strong and popular male role model"? Or that a character's perceived heterosexuality is "a quality about them that they have been admired for four decades"?

M

No I am not. You did.
I am saying IF you take any distinct personal quality (sexual orientation or otherwise) of any individual, fictional or real, who has become well known over decades of time and then reveal that that is not actually the case, then the people who originally admired that person for those qualities that they liked are going to feel like dupes or idiots for the deception.
This applies to any situation where that particular quality disappears. Lando was always portrayed as a ladies man, a charmer, dangerous to know and trust but he became heroic in the end, like Han.
And unlike Luke. The man who had faith that he could save his murderous father, yet suddenly thinks he should slash his defenseless nephew to death in his bed. Or in reality a politician who goes into goverment on the back of a popular vote and does nothing they promised and then actually reverses what they said.
People don't like being decieved.
I loved Kenny Everett for his wacky sense of humour, Graham Chapman for probably being one of the best of the Pythons , and I never miss watching the Grahma Norton show for his brilliant conversational style and wit. I like and admire their talents. And I really don't give a damn about anybodies sexual orientation at all,its entirely their own business but I'm damn sick of being told that I should simply accept any decision made that fundementally changes what I like about a persons character fictional or otherwise when I feel its untruthful or a deliberate provocation.
I'll defend anybodies rights and I loath bullying. But that currently is what some of changes to the characters I have liked for decades feels like. Like I'm being forced to accept that the characters I admire for longer than some people here have been on the Earth aren't those people anymore because somebody else doesn't want them to be.
Get on with your lives ,don't hurt anybody else treat others kindly and with respect. And that includes letting other people have a different point of view to you, whether you like it or not.
 
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No I am not. You did.
I am saying IF you take any distinct personal quality (sexual orientation or otherwise) of any individual, fictional or real, who has become well known over decades of time and then reveal that that is not actually the case, then the people who originally admired that person for those qualities that they liked are going to feel like dupes or idiots for the deception.
This applies to any situation where that particular quality disappears. Lando was always portrayed as a ladies man, a charmer, dangerous to know and trust but he became heroic in the end, like Han.
And unlike Luke. The man who had faith that he could save his murderous father, yet suddenly thinks he should slash his defenseless nephew to death in his bed. Or in reality a politician who goes into goverment on the back of a popular vote and does nothing they promised and then actually reverses what they said.
People don't like being decieved.
I loved Kenny Evert for his wacky sense of humour, Graham Chapman for probably being one of the best of the Pythons , and I never miss watching the Grahma Norton show for his brilliant conversational style and wit. I like and admire their talents. And I really don't give a damn about anybodies sexual orientation at all,its entirely their own business but I'm damn sick of being told that I should simply accept any decision made that fundementally changes what I like about a persons character fictional or otherwise when I feel its untruthful or a deliberate provocation.
I'll defend anybodies rights and I loath bullying. But that currently is what some of changes to the characters I have liked for decades feels like. Like I'm being forced to accept that the characters I admire for longer than some people here have been on the Earth aren't those people anymore because somebody else doesn't want them to be.
Get on with your lives ,don't hurt anybody else treat others kindly and with respect. And that includes letting other people have a different point of view to you, whether you like it or not.

But you’re not being forced to accept any change. You don’t have to ascribe to Kasdan’s opinions about the character until such time it’s portrayed on screen, which will likely be never.
 
For some reason he thinks Lucasfilm has green lit “Lando’s Sexcapades in Space”. :)

And that it will be so onerous that it'll bring in hundreds of millions less than "Lando's Sexless Space Adventure," which was never gonna happen? This conversation is so weird.

I still don't see any contradictions happening. Even if these things happened on screen, which no one's indicating, what's in your head about a character's inner thoughts just isn't canon. Even things explicitly on screen (like Obi Wan telling Luke about his father) can be modified successfully with the right angle - that unintentionally suggestive reaction from Obi Wan before he tells Luke about Vader reads so much differently after ESB, but it works. Even that isn't happening here. Kasdan's not saying he imagines the guy is hitting on Leia to hide his sexuality, overcompensating in a prejudiced galaxy far away. Pan/bisexual Lando would still mack on Leia. You can still admire him for being charming or becoming more noble, less self-serving by the end of his OT arc.
 
I've said it before in another thread and I'll say it again here: I don't watch star wars films to see what the hell gets each character's rocks off. This is just a stupid and unnecessary move to simply make a statement and cause drama, and is simply a byproduct of current "culture." If this was suppose to be an important element of Lando's character, they would have reflected that in the past 40 years of media that focused on him.

#CallMeABigotCauseYouDontHaveAdecentArgumentForWhyThisWasNeeded
 
I have zero interest being involved in this conversation but @CutThumb I’m not sure you understood what was said by Kasdan. I would refer you back to Westies post, he very well expressed what Kasdan said and why it was entirely appropriate. Short version, there is no change to the Lando character in the film in regards to this topic, it was simply a writer having an internal monologue about additional character attributes Lando “might” have.

Bryan, you are so full of schit it's coming out your ears. Kasdan the Younger co-wrote the film, and he said Lando is pansexual. That means he had conversations with Donald Glover about it prior to filming. And we now there are intimations in the film which support this change to his character. Lando calls Han, "Baby", as he looks him up and down in the cockpit (pardon the pun). And in another scene Lando's jealous female droid outs and bittches at Lando for being flirty with Han.

I'm sorry, but just saying, well, Lando can still be a ladies man as a pansexual, so nothing has really changed, is total BS. Making him pansexual means he's sexually attracted to men--and that is a huge change.

Everyone knows my grave reservations about Alden. I have concerns about Chewie, as well. And the Falcon is ugly AF with the mandibles filled in. So, before last night, I thought Lando could be the film's one redeeming quality. But now, the guy who wrote the movie tells me Lando likes having sex with men, and I'm supposed to just ignore that when I'm watching him interact with Han. I don't want to think about Lando undressing Han with his eyes, or wonder what sexual motives he may have in their dealings.

The whole thing's just a big, fracking, gross mess.

The Wook

ps~mkstewartesq, I'm not ducking your questions, but I don't have time to answer them now.
 
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#CallMeABigotCauseYouDontHaveAdecentArgumentForWhyThisWasNeeded

Nice hashtag and all, but none of this is "needed." They're telling stories about space pirates and walking dogs. This isn't a studio exec telling us what's in this movie - this is a writer, a creative professional, telling us what isn't, but what was in his head. Can anyone make a decent argument for why it's impossible, or contradicts anything we learn on screen about Lando? 40 years of media about Lando has already been jettisoned with the EU. Myself, I've only seen the films, and that guy is bizarre and outlandish top to bottom. I don't presume to know anything beyond the surface about him - why does everyone else seem to feel like they know his soul?
 
Nice hashtag and all, but none of this is "needed." They're telling stories about space pirates and walking dogs. This isn't a studio exec telling us what's in this movie - this is a writer, a creative professional, telling us what isn't, but what was in his head. Can anyone make a decent argument for why it's impossible, or contradicts anything we learn on screen about Lando? 40 years of media about Lando has already been jettisoned with the EU. Myself, I've only seen the films, and that guy is bizarre and outlandish top to bottom. I don't presume to know anything beyond the surface about him - why does everyone else seem to feel like they know his soul?

See, it is completely unnecessary. If it wasn't such a "big deal" then why would they need to make such a proclamation? Again, I don't see star wars films in order to pick out who's screwing who. Maybe in 50 years, we'll start seeing them put out dirty films, so I think then you'll have a foundation to make this argument, but as it stands, I don't feel it was something necessary.

If you want a character to stand on it's own- just like Lando has for the past 40 years- it should do so through quality storytelling, not a marketing ploy, so why would you screw around with Lando's character in this way?
 
See, it is completely unnecessary. If it wasn't such a "big deal" then why would they need to make such a proclamation? Again, I don't see star wars films in order to pick out who's screwing who. Maybe in 50 years, we'll start seeing them put out dirty films, so I think then you'll have a foundation to make this argument, but as it stands, I don't feel it was something necessary.

If you want a character to stand on it's own- just like Lando has for the past 40 years- it should do so through quality storytelling, not a marketing ploy, so why would you screw around with Lando's character in this way?

Who are "they?" What "marketing?" Who's alleging this conspiracy? These fluff news outlets are trying to get a comment from LFL and they're caught flat footed. A writer gave us his non-canonical perspective in a puff piece with a progressive news outlet who likely pressed him on LGBTQ inclusion in the universe. They do it with each film that comes out without one. They'll do it extra when one is revealed explicitly.

Whoever said they didn't want to wonder what Lando thinks of Han when they're in scenes together, that's pretty honest and I respect it. Still, that argument is just about your sensitivity to that idea, and not a reason why it doesn't fit Lando. I'm still shocked that this is a new concept - Is this honestly the first time any of you have heard a debate about Lando's sexuality? Even in a joking manner?

And why do people keep framing "quality storytelling" and "bisexual character" as mutually exclusive concepts? Have any of you guys seen this film yet? Or the hypothetical future Lando movie? I think they're all terrible ideas for Star Wars as I know and love it, but they may (or may not) be well-written in and of themselves. Other people seem to dig em so far. For all the naysayers and premature eulogies, the cash keeps rolling in Disney's front door...

:lol God forbid STAR WARS start considering the money or making marketing-based stories! Next thing you know, they'll start selling toys and inventing new Stormtroopers for every movie! :lol
 
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Who are "they?" What "marketing?" Who's alleging this conspiracy? These fluff news outlets are trying to get a comment from LFL and they're caught flat footed. A writer gave us his non-canonical perspective in a puff piece with a progressive news outlet who likely pressed him on LGBTQ inclusion in the universe. They do it with each film that comes out without one. They'll do it extra when one is revealed explicitly.

Again, this is why I said this is a "byproduct of current culture." At this point in time, it's not so much about being a natural thing, but an artificial "check box" that must be thrown into films. This is just for the sake of identity-politics.

Remember all the people (including the director) telling anyone who disliked Ghostbusters 2016 was a sexist? I feel this is added to create a "shield" incase people just don't like it, people can go so "hey, you're being critical of Lando's character in the film? It's cause he's a pansexual, isn't it, you bigot?"


Whoever said they didn't want to wonder what Lando thinks of Han when they're in scenes together, that's pretty honest and I respect it. Still, that argument is just about your sensitivity to that idea, and not a reason why it doesn't fit Lando. I'm still shocked that this is a new concept - Is this honestly the first time any of you have heard a debate about Lando's sexuality? Even in a joking manner?

Watching the Empire Strikes Back and ROTJ growing up, I cannot recall an instance where I said, "gee, I wonder what Lando thinks of Han in his private time." The only thing I got from his character in ESB was that he was a double crossing guy macking on Han's love interest, and redeemed his sins from ESB in ROTJ by taking out DS2. Where in the middle of all this, as a kid growing up, do I feel I need to know what Lando does in private? I don't ask you or my friend's about what they're into. His portrayal in ESB was enough for me to be like "oh look, he may try to steal Leia away" but that lasted a mere fleeting instance, and I never cared for it since.

The better question here is why should I care and why should you be telling us this if it's completely irrelevant to the story being told?

And why do people keep framing "quality storytelling" and "bisexual character" as mutually exclusive concepts? Have any of you guys seen this film yet? Or the hypothetical future Lando movie? I think they're all terrible ideas for Star Wars as I know and love it, but they may (or may not) be well-written in and of themselves. Other people seem to dig em so far. For all the naysayers and premature eulogies, the cash keeps rolling in Disney's front door...

The Lando movie was a bad translation from an interview, and took Kathleen Kennedy's remarks out of context. Not to say they won't ever do it, but just putting that out front.

Again, I don't need to know or care about a character's sexual preferences or "identity" as though it should be the only redeeming trait about a character. Lando's been a significantly popular character for 40 years. There's no real POINT to be made in this situation unless you're just trying to make a statement. As far as WE the viewers ever seen him portrayed since the beginning, he was only into women- not into Han or Luke. This was further backed up in his cameo in Rebels where he was macking on Hera despite other characters being present.

Again, I don't feel a reason why this should even be brought up at all. "Quality storytelling will tell you everything you need to know through the process of telling the story- Not slapping you in the face with it like an angry guy trying to kill you with a brick
 
Again, the “quality storytelling” and “gay character” thing presented as mutually exclusive. I don’t expect much from these movies, but that’s not the reason.

A writer confiding that he, himself, saw a character one way when writing him, while noting that it’s just his own perspective and nothing’s locked in through this film - how is that the studio beating you over the head with some “agenda brick” rather than aiming for a good story?

Yes, every movie reflects its contemporary society in some ways. LGBTQ people aren’t new though, it’s just acceptance of them in our society that’s come around. Understand that you’ve always been a fan of a giant marketing/money printing machine and that clumsy revisions have been happening to its characters from the beginning. This reaction says more about your sensitivities than to their approach. If there’s a market for or a PR benefit from the inclusion of gay characters, Disney/LFL will embrace it. Not long ago, studios thought “black movies” couldn’t bring in blockbuster-level box office or awards. But by all accounts, this is probably as hands-off as the studio’s been to its creative teams since the original film. People are telling the stories they want to tell, and it seems some might just be more comfortable with a conspiracy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Saw the reveal of Lando being pansexual...
Said to myself “Oh I bet there’s some freak outs happening on RPF...

...was proven correct.

Here’s my hot take for anyone who cares:

Lando is SO pimp, I’d buy it. But at the same time, sexuality outside of basic romance has no need to be included into Star Wars, so really, it’s a moot issue. It won’t be talked about in the movie, it won’t be seen, it was purely a motivation character beat between the Kasdans, Howard, and Glover.

In a galaxy full of a million races and creatures and beings, pan sexuality is surely amongst them— but again, Star Wars is a fairy tale, and outside of broad stroke simple love stories, we’ll never get into the details of it all.

I don’t think it’s smart to alter an existing character though. It never works. People either see it as an agenda, or a betrayal of their fandom. I think that’s absurd, and have no issue with it— but it always irritates more people than it pleases. Inclusion is a hard concepot to wrangle, most people will generally scream TO MAKE A NEW CHARACTER that’s pansexual (or a different race/gender/whatever) instead of altering an existing one. That argument doesn’t work because most of the time a new character will never have the recognition an existing one will — THAT said, Star Wars has proven repeatedly it can bring new characters into the saga and they can have an impact and have a dozen comics or books written about them. So in this case, a new pan character would have been fine.

EIther way though, my question to everyone so worked up, upset, mad, and/or in hate over it, let me ask a simple question: why?

Are you made because change is bad? Does it REALLY effect you on a personal level? Doesit change anything for you, or how you feel about the movies?
 
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An old friend...supposedly who makes an appearance in this film.

Maul in Solo.jpg
 
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