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  1. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Oct 14, 2015, 10:30 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #76

    Say, FireFox, have you seen the 1/48 scale Anigrand kit? If so, any opinions? Anigrand's history has been a bit, uh, variable with regards to kit engineering (which usually translates to a 'real man's kit', if you know what I mean...) but the images out there might give your calibrated eyeball a challenge. If I wasn't between jobs, I might give it a go just to evaluate its accuracy & execution.

    Regards, Robert
  2. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Oct 15, 2015, 12:24 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #77

    It occurred to me that if printing to 1:48 scale would be an issue for panel lines, what about adding the lines by engraving old school after the print? Or just leaving them off altogether and leaving it up to the builder. At that scale, panel lines are sometimes best represented by penciling or paint demarcations anyway - especially on what should be a stealthy supersonic aircraft. Just a thought after re-reading the whole thread. What may be more convincing is to incorporate the subtle surface variations of a metal monocoque structure (aka 'skin waviness') as a way to provide the desired surface complexity that 'fools the eye'. Engraved panel lines are after all just a 'trick' to represent the slight discontinuities present in aircraft skin. But as is often the case with modeling 'filming miniatures' of fictional machines, do you treat it as a 'full size' object or as a model with a particular 'look'. Sometimes the trend is to attempt to make the model look like a 'real' vehicle even if the original 'screen' version didn't quite pull it off. Fortunately, with Firefox, the movie did a good job of making it 'look real'.

    Patience, ye perch on mine shoulder... someday!
    Regards, Robert
    Last edited by rbeach84; Oct 15, 2015 at 12:34 AM.
  3. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 16, 2015, 4:42 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #78

    Hi Robert,

    The Anigrand 1/48 looks the same as the 1/72 which I have sitting in the cupboard, only bigger of course. It has the same issues, wingtips/wings proportionally too big, and the front is still wrong.

    I actually had a similar discussion about panel lines, that on something stealthy they really shouldn't be visible especially at 1/48 scale. I actually think subtle wins with panel lines, there are some fantastic buildups on britmodeller.com where the depth of the panel lines spoil the scale illusion. I like the way they used pencil lines on the Thunderbirds/Gerry Anderson models, ok it made it easy and quick, but visually it worked.

    I am still working on it btw, just had some personal stuff going on so I have not had so much time to spare, but will update over the weekend.

    Jon
  4. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Oct 16, 2015, 4:13 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #79

    I understand, fun is fun but still have to stock the 'bread & bullets' so to speak...

    Regards, Robert
  5. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 19, 2015, 6:12 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #80

    After re-assesing the front end I think it's now as close as I am going to get it.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The above render was done with a great addon for Sketchup. Having the glossy highlights has helped me see the contour of the wing is still a a bit off, but I can now see where it needs fixing, already played with it a bit hence the error on the wing root.
  6. Member Since
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    Oct 19, 2015, 9:25 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #81

    I hope you don't mind, but i save these pics as we go, I am in awe of your talent Firefox3D, I have sketch up pro for over a year now, and can rotate a model......thats about it, I wish i had a bit of free time to learn how to use it like you have,

    -Mike
  7. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Oct 20, 2015, 11:00 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #82

    Good idea using the 'glossy' rendering technique.

    R/ Robert
  8. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 20, 2015, 6:28 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #83

    Hi Mike,

    It is a steep learning curve with these types of software, I remember driving myself mad with Coreldraw where you almost think the software has a mind of it's own. This was before the internet existed so all you had was a paper manual which tells you what everything does, but not how to apply it for an end result.
    Oddly enough the rotate tool in Sketchup drove me mad for a while until I fully understood it, it's very flexible, but because of that can be quite hard to get it to do what you want.
    I'm probably around 200+ hours in and still learning myself.
    Most of the pics are stored on the RPF so they shouldn't disappear, a few more renders for the collection

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Robert, the big hero is fully glossy lacquer, the one that lands on the ice floe looks duller, but could just be the way it was lit. I realised the lower placed canards on the ice floe landing model is probably a result of the fact it was a converted RC model and they must have moved the canards for better flight characteristics.
  9. Member Since
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    Oct 20, 2015, 9:59 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #84

    Are you by chance using one of those fancy digital sketch tablets and stylus for all this or just a mouse ? I tried coreldraw a few years back, and it drove me nuts, so i quit that and went back to pencil and paper, simple and efficient lol, I hope to be able to build a 1/6th scale flying gas turbine version of the fox some day, you work is seriously an inspiration to get off my butt and back at it lol. You know its amazing the talent and hard work you are putting into something, when you think about it, do you wonder if the original creators of the fox and other super cool sci-fi props thought, " hey in 10,20, 30+yrs people are gonna completely obsess over this ?" just my thoughts
  10. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 21, 2015, 11:43 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #85

    Just a mouse, admittedly I bought a better than average gaming style mouse, I do PC gaming and my old Microsoft mouse was getting tired. They are just better made, higher quality feel and switches. Also the one I bought has a programmable button below the mouse wheel which switches the DPI resolution, really all this does is reduce the amount of on screen movement vs physical movement so you have better fine control when you need it.
    I have had a play around with a tablet and they are great for freehand drawing, but the pen types can give you hand cramp after a short time and most the time I am working it can be 2, 4 or more hours. Also most of the work in Sketchup I am moving something in a defined axis, where you click and hold then by tapping an assigned key for a directional movement it locks the part to move in that axis, quick and easy and no benefit with a tablet.
    1/6th that's the size of a car!
    Glad to be an inspiration, I think with all these kind of things you have to get past the procrastination point, where you feel it's almost too much to take on and is it worth it. Getting started and feeling like you have accomplished something is a good motivator. Plus when you start and make progress it suddenly seems much less of a task, still easy to get demotivated by spending too long on one thing. I got exasperated with the front when I discovered what I was trying to copy was "wrong". It made me think is it worth it, what is right? Then you just have to realise it can only ever be something like 98% right, there will always be small errors.
    I doubt if the creators thought it would be something obsessed over this much time later, wasn't it said that the guys working on Star Wars just hoped it would do ok at the box office?
  11. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Oct 21, 2015, 10:32 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #86

    At least the props didn't end up in the dumpster behind the studio...

    R/ Robert
  12. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 22, 2015, 5:23 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #87

    Wasn't thinking of that, I guess the ones that survive are actually the rarities.

    Think I finally have the wing right after spending about 6 hours on it. Changed the entire wing subtly, have a few kinks to iron out on the leading edge, and have to separate the ailerons, but getting there.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It looks weird on the left side as there are sections that will be joined together when I am totally happy with it.

    Discovered something else, in looking where to section the spine for the air-brakes, found all 3 screen models are different, LOL
    Last edited by Firefox3D; Oct 22, 2015 at 5:33 PM.
  13. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Oct 23, 2015, 12:59 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #88

    Of course, we should expect no less!

    ;^P
    R/ Robert
  14. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 26, 2015, 10:27 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #89

    Another quick update.

    Spent a long time studying the wing to body section, as it just didn't seem to quite match. So after another 4 hours or more I think I am happy with it, this may change depending on my mood later...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Also properly constructed the down swept wingtips and joint piece, the wingtips were just a quick curved section, now they are a proper aerofoil.

    The astute may notice there is now a pilot, this is a free U2 pilot model who is a stand in for Gant, although he looks more like Voskov at the moment.
  15. Formerly GELForever Martin-El's Avatar
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    Oct 26, 2015, 1:58 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #90

    So pleased to see progress!
    I too have been saving every image on this thread and those latest renders are a gift- it's a thing of beauty
    And I'm not a bit surprised none of the miniatures match up to the full-scale etc. So I think an idealised version is the only way to go...
  16. p51's Avatar
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    Oct 27, 2015, 1:23 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #91

    I once debriefed a real MIG-29 pilot and he asked to see the movie as he'd heard of it. He couldn't stop laughing. He said, "Who designed this, someone working in plywood? Where are the rounded shapes?"
    I'm still a fan of the movie, but I never forgot those comments...
  17. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 27, 2015, 9:35 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #92

    Made out of plywood LOL, well the full sized one was. I think it was an ok approximation of a stealth aircraft, but I think in a good way style won over aerodynamics

    Was the F-117 stealth known about in 1982, can't remember?

    As people seem to like them another render with the details added to the wingtip interface part, is there an official name for that part?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The antenna or whatever they are, to scale would be only 0.5mm thick in 1/48th scale, noticed they have broken off the surviving hero model.
  18. FlyingBrickyard's Avatar
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    Oct 27, 2015, 10:05 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #93

    Firefox3D said: View Post
    Was the F-117 stealth known about in 1982, can't remember?
    I don't remember anything at all even being speculated about it until the mid-80s (mostly when crashes started happening), and the official reveal came a couple of years later. I still remember the picture on the front page of the newspaper - everyone thought it was some sort of joke because of the shape of the thing.
  19. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 27, 2015, 10:17 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #94

    Just looked it up 1988, I know they did strikes in the Gulf War and I was thinking that was earlier but it was 1991.
  20. RPF Premium Member
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    Oct 27, 2015, 12:45 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #95

    I was having a chat with Mark Stetson years ago, before the Stealth Fighter was revealed, and he and I were both puzzled by Greg Jein's design choice with FireFox. Greg has a strong aviation interest, and neither Mark nor I could make heads or tails of it. But then the Stealth Fighter was revealed, as were the reasons for the flat planar surfaces, and suddenly, Greg's genius became more apparent... either that, or he was a spy in the Skunkworks...
  21. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 27, 2015, 1:12 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #96

    My comment of style over aerodynamics is not right really, it was obviously and air worthy design as the RC models flew well. What I meant was the front facets are stealthy, but the rest isn't. Having said that this is fiction and they said it was the paint that made it stealthy, not that a plane remains stealthy once it goes past mach 1 and would give off an infra-red signature of a blast furnace at mach 6!

    I think some info on stealth had leaked in the early eighties, regarding the faceted design to minimise cross section, seem to remember a National Geographic article that mentioned it.

    Just looking for Greg Jein found this, only 3 mins and low res but interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Weq0QSt-U

    Couple of shots of the prototype, and two polaroid shots which are new. Also it confirms Grant McCune was responsible for the final design working from Greg Jein's prototype.
    Last edited by Firefox3D; Oct 27, 2015 at 1:25 PM.
  22. Formerly GELForever Martin-El's Avatar
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    Oct 27, 2015, 4:27 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #97

    I wanted that vid to go on for, say at least another two hours lol. That Buck Rogers/Galactica display is tremendous too...
  23. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 27, 2015, 7:58 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #98

    It's from a full DVD called Sense of Scale from senseofscalefilm.com, going to order a copy.
  24. Member Since
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    Oct 29, 2015, 10:26 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #99

    I may have missed it, but is this going to be for sale at some point. I have wanted a mig-31 forever. for awhile I wasn't able to find anything in 48 scale. When I did everyone was kind of bashing them. Saying the look was way off. From the renders this looks awesome. Please let me know if this comes up for sale, even if I have to print my own. Let me know.
  25. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Oct 29, 2015, 12:42 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #100

    Yes it will be for sale in 1/48th. That seems to be the scale the majority of people want, so although I want a bigger bird (1/24th) I will do the 1/48th first. Will be a lot more straightforward to print the master as it's 1/8th the volume.

    I really want to check the wing/body section looks right so if I have enough time I will print it at 1/48th over the weekend.

    Have found 1/48th detailed white metal undercarriage and wheels are available, a correct model detailed resin ejector seat and a resin cockpit tub for a SAAB Viggen which looks very similar dimension and visually to the Firefox. Makes sense to use donor part than spend hours on making them and the fine detail is nearly impossible to print at 1/48th, with my printer anyway.

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