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  1. p51's Avatar
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    Jul 23, 2015, 11:55 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #51

    The main thing with the MIG-31 in the movie that drove me nuts was the complete lack of any markings. Like all jet fighter planes, Russian planes are covered with small markings, showing lift points, latches, instructions on what to do or not to do, where not to step, stuff like that...
  2. TazMan2000's Avatar
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    Jul 23, 2015, 4:46 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #52

    p51 said: View Post
    The main thing with the MIG-31 in the movie that drove me nuts was the complete lack of any markings. Like all jet fighter planes, Russian planes are covered with small markings, showing lift points, latches, instructions on what to do or not to do, where not to step, stuff like that...
    Well not "complete lack of any markings", because it did have the Soviet stars on the vertical stabilizers and the wings. But don't forget that this was supposed to be an aircraft invisible to radar, so the writers wanted it to be differentiated from regular aircraft where every surface has some sort of marking. In the original movie and book, they never really suggested what caused the radar invisibility, but in the book Firefox Down they did hint at it being the coating, if I recall correctly. Then you may ask "Why then do they have the Soviet stars?". I would think 'pride' comes into effect as well as ensuring the civilian population doesn't think they are being attacked by an unmarked aircraft from an unfriendly nation. If you saw a strange aircraft fly over your house, you would be a little more comforted by knowing it had your country's markings on it.

    TazMan2000
  3. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Jul 23, 2015, 5:56 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #53

    I think it was just the fact Clint just wanted a clean sleek looking plane with no "graphics", also more trouble to duplicate between the models and full size versions, plus could possibly have caused issues with the reverse bluescreen technique.
  4. RPF Premium Member
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    Jul 23, 2015, 7:14 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #54

    [QUOTE=Firefox3D;3708224...plus could possibly have caused issues with the reverse bluescreen technique.[/QUOTE]

    That is unlikely, given that the reverse bluescreen process used phosphorescent blue dye, which would have illuminated well enough under UV light to pull a matte chemically. By the time I used the stuff, Apogee had adapted the red phosphor developed by Dreamquest, which was superior to the blue. I hated that stuff...
  5. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Jul 23, 2015, 7:24 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #55

    Ok it was just a thought, but you can see issues with parts of the plane disappearing when you go through the movie frame by frame. I think they mention it was an issue in the Cinefex article.
  6. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 3, 2015, 7:08 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #56

    Fixed a multitude of small things and some bigger things. Corrected the triple booster section that NWerke pointed out, along with correcting a proportional error with the mid-rear section, pretty small but I could see it wasn't right.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Reworked the the upper engines intake scoops as I could see they were a bit off which resulted in my re-doing the inner wing also. it's a really awkward piece of 3D geometry but it now looks right from all angles, it's gratifying to see it finally look right.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I call this the "poster shot" as it's the pic that appeared in posters and reviews at the time, and I have a big photo quality poster of it
    Also changed the contouring of the fuselage behind the cockpit using the panel lines as a guide. The fuselage has rounded peaks at the edges of the faceted front with a nearly flat top just behind the cockpit, the peaks narrow together and the cross sections turns more to a smooth arc before the wing roots, stays fairly similar to where the intake scoops start then the curvature gradually reduces to the point between the engine pods.

    Discovered something interesting that fits with the hero mould being used for the RC versions. The anhedral wingtips are tilted forward when viewed from the side, it's around a 1.3 degrees rotation relative to the main wing such that the leading edge is lower than the trailing edge. I didn't know the term but it's called washout and prevents the wingtips from aerodynamically stalling before the rest of the wing, which can lead to spins (thanks NWerke)

    Had a rethink on producing kits directly as 3D prints. After spending so much time on this getting it right, I would want the finished articles to be totally correct also. Due to limitations with home 3D printing I think printing and perfecting a 1/24th master then moulding it will be the way to go. This is also partly down to the estimated printing time which looks like around 5 days if all goes well, which it often doesn't...

    Details like panel lines and small features get tricky at smaller scales like 1/48th (around 40cm or 16" long) but I looked into bureau printing and it's nowhere near as expensive as it used to be. So it might be feasible to get most of a 1/48th master bureau printed without breaking the bank. I have to finish and section the model before I can know for sure.
    Last edited by Firefox3D; Aug 3, 2015 at 7:17 PM.
  7. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Aug 3, 2015, 7:11 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #57

    I'm a 1/48 scale nut, so I may be looking for it from you in the future! Plus, you wouldn't have to make the landing gear - folks could just get a set of SAC (Scale Aircraft Conversions) metal gear if they wanted it...

    Regards, Robert
  8. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 3, 2015, 7:24 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #58

    Yeah there seem to be loads of detail parts at 1/48th as it's a popular scale for kits. Found a matching highly detailed ejector seat by Quickboost in 1/48th.
  9. Member Since
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    Aug 4, 2015, 4:58 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #59

    It was a coating on the aircraft that rendered it invisible to radar. If you read the sequel "Firefox down",after taking damage during the dogfight with the second firefox,Gant has to no choice but to land the aircraft. He puts it down on a frozen lake successfully,but the ice breaks and the plane sinks. When it's eventually recovered and flying again,it no longer has radar invisibility,as that coating has been washed away. Go get a copy on fleabay,it's a cracking read,following on where.the first finished.��
  10. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 4, 2015, 7:17 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #60

    I read the book a long time ago and don't remember that fact, it seems odd to me now as rain or moisture from clouds would effect it. Guess my mind wasn't so analytical back then...

    I do remember thinking although there would be little of the plane in it, the story would make a better film than Firefox.
  11. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 4, 2015, 2:22 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #61

    Realised I hadn't posted this, high resolution scan of the poster I have - took about 8 scans stitched together to make it.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's a big pic so click on it once, when it opens in a new window click on it again or right click and save it.
  12. JediG60racer's Avatar
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    Aug 6, 2015, 3:06 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #62

    Sweet! If you made a kit in 1/24, I could pose my 1/24 cars with it and be in proper scale
    Because the Firefox pilot definitely would have driven a G60 Corrado, for pure funkiness.
  13. Formerly GELForever Martin-El's Avatar
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    Aug 6, 2015, 3:47 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #63

    Fantastic update full of gifts as usual and great news - 1/24 sounds ideal
  14. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 6, 2015, 8:07 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #64

    Hi Martin, I thought you were looking at a 1/48th?

    BTW there is a glitch/error in that patchwork scan will fix it and re-upload.
  15. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 6, 2015, 8:15 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #65

    JediG60racer said: View Post
    Sweet! If you made a kit in 1/24, I could pose my 1/24 cars with it and be in proper scale
    Because the Firefox pilot definitely would have driven a G60 Corrado, for pure funkiness.
    1/24 is pretty big around 32" long but it will look cool.

    Saw one of those yesterday, still lovely looking cars. Had two original Sciroccos myself a GTI then a beautiful red Scala GTI that got written off by an idiot pulling out in front of me. Worked out ok in the end as I got a company car then bought a bike with the insurance payout.

    I can't see Mr Gant as a VW man, Dodge Charger, Mustang, or possibly a Gran Torino....
    Last edited by Firefox3D; Aug 6, 2015 at 9:33 AM.
  16. Formerly GELForever Martin-El's Avatar
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    Aug 6, 2015, 8:42 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #66

    Lol you're right- I meant 1/48
  17. JediG60racer's Avatar
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    Aug 6, 2015, 1:51 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #67

    I can see Gant driving American muscle or a sweet Ferrari 250LM...

    But I was talking about Lt Colonel Voskov. He'd definitely drive precision German engineering, but not a Porsche or BMW that would attract the attention of the KGB. Something loaded with technology, relatively fast and nimble. Hence VW Scirocco or Corrado.
  18. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 6, 2015, 5:35 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #68

    Ahhh, sorry yes, wasn't thinking of Voskov, in that case
  19. Member Since
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    Aug 11, 2015, 6:53 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #69

    you sir are my hero, would it be possible to slice the image width wise to create formers and print it out in sections to create a larger ie your original purposed 1/12th scale ? kinda like building a rc airplane, and use blue foam to fill in the gaps between the formers, carve the foam, bondo, sand etc and do it large rc plane style with a split mold for the fuselage, fiberglass covered foam wings.......ummmmmm boost it to 1/6th scale, I'd buy it slap a pair of rc turbine engines in it and fly the wings off of it lol

    -Mike
  20. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 12, 2015, 7:57 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #70

    Just a quick post as it's late here. After a lot of studying over the weekend I came to the conclusion the front was just not quite right. I could see by holding up the master I had printed visually overlaying screen shots and photos of the hero things just didn't line up right, or more to say a proportional difference of the fuselage sizing vs the front chisel section.
    After about three different iterations which involved completely rebuilding the front in the end I am happy with it and can match up within a very small amount of error to the hero.
    Before and after comparison new on left old on right. Looking at it now it doesn't look that different really, LOL, but the new one "looks" right.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Also realised the canard wings were a bit too wide, a bit too shallow and too far forward, changes only amount to a couple of mm's in 1/24 but visible if you look.
    Wing tips were also 4 degree too downward tilted, had overdone it a bit trying to compensate for the slight wing droop the hero now seems to have after 20 odd years.

    Changed the contouring of the fuselage section underside as I worked out it fattens at the wing roots then narrows forward following the curve arc of the underside shaping, will post pics of that later as I am still working on it and the lower intake/gun ports.
    When rebuilding realised it would be sensible to section the body around the panel lines so half the work is done, just have to create recesses. Created an animation to show with/without for a bit of fun. Will section the canopy and do an animation of that next.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Worked on the cockpit some for a change of pace, found a donor mig-29 model online as a starting point, but still a way to go with that.
  21. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 12, 2015, 8:02 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #71

    Hi Mike, it would be possible to provide sectional drawings, have to finish first!

    Jon
  22. Member Since
    May 2011
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    Aug 13, 2015, 4:25 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #72

    Man your an animal !!!! incredible detail work, hey no worries on the sectional drawings, I'm a patient man lol
  23. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Aug 14, 2015, 10:53 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #73

    I second that motion...
    R/ Robert
  24. Firefox3D's Avatar
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    Aug 17, 2015, 6:31 PM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #74

    I have been driving myself nuts with the geometry of the front chisel section of the plane. I could get it to line up nearly but not quite, and couldn't work out why. I decided to give up as it was damn close, then taking a break then coming back to it I spotted something that really should have seen before.
    You can clearly see on the full size buildup and the ice-floe landing model the front and side facets are totally flat, which was the assumption I was working from for my model, I now know why I couldn't make things line up.
    The 1/12th hero has an error, possibly intentional, but probably not, where the slant angle of the window canopy facets are steeper than the nose sections as shown by overlaid lines in the pics below.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think maybe what happened was, they cut out the windows from the resin/fiberglass shell, including the top window which leaves not much material there. This might have fractured or they cut the whole part off thinking they were going to have an opening canopy, then fixing it back in place the angle of the top of the canopy section changed so the front is lower. It's hard to make out but the canopy roof level drops to below horizontal

    However on the other models, including the large reverse blue painted one the top of the canopy is flat to slightly rising back to front, and the side windows are deeper. You can see it in these shots.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It might not look that significant, but altering the model to match, when I draw a horizontal line from the top edge of the front facet to where it should be if the facets were flat, real size it is about 120mm difference, or 5mm at 1/24th scale.

    So, the question is, which is correct, it does appear the big hero is the odd one out.
  25. rbeach84's Avatar
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    Aug 18, 2015, 12:29 AM - Re: Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft #75

    Looks like a judgement call! As long as you document your process & are happy with the result, then Bob's your uncle... After all, you are working with conflicting primary source material (aka, different models...)
    R/ Robert

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