Floquil Railroad Colors Lacquer and Enamel Paint Survey
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kh39
Sr Member
Hi,
I learned about colors recently. CMYK value is information about printing. What we need is Munsell system. For example, car paint shop men use electronic devices which are very expensive.
But there's a problem. To measure the same munsell value, you need to measure under the perfectly same lighting which is very difficult(or impossible) because even under the same lighting, the device measures differently. To their eyes, sprayed on a styrene sheet don't look uniform color. Each area looks different hue to their eyes.
I learned about colors recently. CMYK value is information about printing. What we need is Munsell system. For example, car paint shop men use electronic devices which are very expensive.
But there's a problem. To measure the same munsell value, you need to measure under the perfectly same lighting which is very difficult(or impossible) because even under the same lighting, the device measures differently. To their eyes, sprayed on a styrene sheet don't look uniform color. Each area looks different hue to their eyes.
crowe t
Well-Known Member
Have you tried Testors Model Master Acrylic(Acryl) Caboose Red?
VFX Freak
Sr Member
I've been avoiding the Model Master Acrylics because I find them to be fragile, especially when masking over them, but I will give this one a look. For what it's worth, I tried the MM aged concrete, which is meant to match the Floquil color, and it was a decent match, but not great. And it was how i learned the paints were fragile. Or should I say they don't have much "bite" to them.
Thanks for the suggestion.
crowe t
Well-Known Member
I've been using Testors Model Master Acrylics and find they are tougher than Tamiya acrylics. I have had no problems masking over them. However I use Tamiya masking tape which is made for masking over hobby paints.
I attached a link below for Vallejo Acrylic Caboose Red that Micromark sells. It says it's color matched to Polly Scale paint samples.
http://www.micromark.com/vallejo-acrylic-paint-caboose-red-1-fl-oz-two-1and2-oz-bottles,11772.html
VFX Freak
Sr Member
Interesting. I use Tamiya tape as well and have had the opposite experience. But I tend to use the lacquer based Tamiya thinner which gives the paint more bite. How do you thin the MM paints?
As for the Micro Mark Caboose Red, I tried it and unfortunately it wasn't even close.
As for the Micro Mark Caboose Red, I tried it and unfortunately it wasn't even close.
crowe t
Well-Known Member
I thin Testors MM acrylic paints with Testors Universal Acrylic Thinner 50496A. Maybe Testors MM Acrylics work better with their own thinner.
Testors MM Acryl is the main paint I use and have never had a problem. I mask over it all the time. I use Tamiya Fine Surface Primer and then the Testors MM Acryl. Maybe it's the Tamiya primer that the Testors MM Acrylic bonds well too.
Testors MM Acryl is the main paint I use and have never had a problem. I mask over it all the time. I use Tamiya Fine Surface Primer and then the Testors MM Acryl. Maybe it's the Tamiya primer that the Testors MM Acrylic bonds well too.
VFX Freak
Sr Member
I'll have to try it again then. I used exactly the same materials you did, including the primer and thinner, in a test comparing several brands of paints, and the MM acrylics were the only ones I had trouble with. I think I used one part thinner to four parts paint, IIRC. I also add a drop of a Flow Aid/Slow Dry mixture to keep it from drying in the airbrush. Perhaps I had too much Flow Aid in the mix which can impede curing.
crowe t
Well-Known Member
I've never used FlowAid/Slow Dry or anything like that. I always apply it in several light mist coats. It sounds like the Flow Aid might be doing something to the paint. It might be taking a lot longer to cure with the Flow Aid. I find Testors MM Acryl to cure as durable as any lacquer.
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@ VFX Freak, I agree that it is possibly the Flow-Aid that is causing your issues...are you thinning the Flow-Aid before adding it? It usually comes as a concentrate so needs thinning before mixing into the paint.
I know that the Liquitex Flow-Aid I have recomends that you, at a minmum, reduce it 1 part Flow-Aid to 10 parts distilled water and the normal dilution being 1 part Flow-Aid to 20 parts distilled water.
Too much Flow-Aid or using it undiluted can cause poor paint adhesion, or cause the paint to crack, or to remain tacky...
Also, I'm not sure if it is actually effecting the adhesion, but perhaps the use of the Tamiya thinner is contributing to the problem by over thinning the binders in the paint, you could try using Testors Universal Thinner (like crowe suggested) or adding back in a bit of clear acrylic medium to counter the thinning.
I know that the Liquitex Flow-Aid I have recomends that you, at a minmum, reduce it 1 part Flow-Aid to 10 parts distilled water and the normal dilution being 1 part Flow-Aid to 20 parts distilled water.
Too much Flow-Aid or using it undiluted can cause poor paint adhesion, or cause the paint to crack, or to remain tacky...
Also, I'm not sure if it is actually effecting the adhesion, but perhaps the use of the Tamiya thinner is contributing to the problem by over thinning the binders in the paint, you could try using Testors Universal Thinner (like crowe suggested) or adding back in a bit of clear acrylic medium to counter the thinning.
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VFX Freak
Sr Member
imurme, I dilute the Flow Aid, but not as much as is recommended. I make a mix of 25% Flow Aid, 25% Slow Dry, and 50% distilled water. I arrived at this formula after a lot of experimentation, some of it resulting in paint that never cured, or paint that still dried too fast, but this mix has worked well. I add roughly a drop for every ten or so drops of paint. I've found it works great with Vallejo and Tamiya acrylics. Maybe the MM paint doesn't like it. I live in Los Angeles and am usually painting in very dry conditions. The paint dries too quickly and I get a grainy finish or tip drying if I don't use the Flow Aid mix. I can use less of it on a cool humid day. I did use the MM thinner meant for the MM acrylic paint, not the Tamiya thinner.
The best tip I've had in this thread is using the Mr. Leveling Thinner with the Floquil enamel paints. That and a little Floquil retarder works great.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give the MM acrylics another try because they do have some really good colors to choose from.
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The best tip I've had in this thread is using the Mr. Leveling Thinner with the Floquil enamel paints. That and a little Floquil retarder works great.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give the MM acrylics another try because they do have some really good colors to choose from.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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crowe t
Well-Known Member
The Testors MM Acrylic paints also don't always need to be thinned. Under the right weather conditions they can be sprayed without any thinner. In a full paint cup I usually add a drop or 2 of Testors thinner. VFX Freak, it seems like you might be adding too much Flow Aid and Slow Dry to the distilled water. I've found that Testors Acrylics tend to be more 'rubbery' than Tamiya acrylics and quite possibly have a longer cure time.
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