Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

This is why JJs decison to allow Han to make a succesful hyperspace jump from a standing start with no previous calculation so completely stupid and it undermines the existing principals of hyperspace travel l in the SW universe.

Because it makes every subsequent decision made by a character piloting a spacecraft capable of a hyperspace travel when faced with a threat to NOT immediately jump then completely and inexplicable stupid.

So as soon as the Falcon or ANY OTHER SHIP WITH A HYPERDRIVE comes under any form of attack or danger of any kind, why not just leap to hyperspace? Han has proved it did not matter. Just pull the lever. You'll be fine.

And the result of that throwaway decision to allow that to happen is there should be no more dogfights, space battles (of any great length anyway), no need for great space fleets of star destroyers to patrol systems because JJ has SHOWN us it doesn't matter.

Just press the Hyperspace button to jump in and out and to escape.

So there is no more worrying about having to have a nav computer to help you with all those precise calculations. After all ,post JJ, we now know that we CAN fly right through a star and bounce too close to a supernova and it WOULD NOT end your trip real quick. So all the credit Han gives himself for ever being a great pilot is, according to JJ, rubbish.

You don't even HAVE to be moving.

Which is therefore even more interesting because JJ's subsequent decision to show Han jumping at a huge velocity to beat the Star Killer bases shield is then rendered so completely pointless and stupid by what he has already allowed Han to do.
Because Han has already proved he doesn't need to be even moving in the Falcon when he presses the hyperspace leap button.

So he could have just done the obvious thing. Jump directly to Star Killer base. Stop just outside of the shield. Press the Hyperspace button on (and presumably off again really quickly) for faster than light speed and......
Hey Presto !!!!
He's across the barrier.
This is why I loath elements of JJs thinking. He's great at character moments and visual spectacle BUT JJ has now completely ruined many of the rules for story logic that allowed everything else concerning hyperspace travel in the Star Wars universe to make sense.

Just like he did in new Star Trek with transwarp beaming , curing future deaths with new improved Khan blood and giving a space craft the ability to fight at warp speed. Stories cannot survive these contradictory laws intact.

I don't doubt he may give us another reasonably entertaining SW tale . But because he's all about the visuals and stupid short story cuts and rarely about consistent calm and rational thinking it really bothers me what he may do that screws up the future of SW beyond this trilogy .

Bryancd said:

Once again subjective opinions being presented as objective facts when the facts of TFA are:
92% critical, 89% audience scores on Rotten Tomatoes
81% positive on MetaCritic
71.4% of audience reviews on IMDB rate the film between 8-10 out of 10

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I have to laugh at the unintended irony of this post. You are literally presenting subjective opinions (albeit collectively) as objective facts.:lol

Here's a fact; Those Rotten Tomatoes binary "scores" are misleading and nowhere near as telling as the averaged ratings, which are lower for both critical and audience categories.

Here's another fact; The MetaCritic average User rating for TFA is 6.9/10 with 34% of reviews being mixed or negative.

Here's another fact; Of those three websites you cite, IMDB has the most reviews by far, at approximately 685000. Box Office Mojo estimates that over 108,000,000 tickets were sold domestically for TFA. Even if you generously factor in 50% of those tickets as repeat viewings, the IMDB reviews would only represent about 1% of the subjective opinions of ALL U.S. audience members. That percentage would be even worse if International ticket sales were factored.

The real fact of the matter is that those numbers of yours are statistically insignificant. If such things mattered I'd be asking what the remaining 99% of viewers think of The Force Awakens.


At the end of the day though, who cares about questionable polls, popular opinion or box office totals? If anyone here thinks that any of those things 'proves' the other side wrong, they are fooling themselves.

The weird thing is reading something like the imdb user reviews. Then comparing them against a movie such as "Jurassic World", which I did just for fun. Something doesn't jive there.

I need to stop posting in this thread now.
Its making this particular 47 year old man baby sad.

JJ helped Disney make a shed load of money and if that results in more occasional stuff that I do love more, like Rogue One and a reasonable percentage of Rebels (fingers crossed for TLJ and the Solo flick)..... I will let him off

Nitz146 said:

It didn't bother me. I just figured it was a different shield technology from the one on Endor.

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THIS. If someone can show me anywhere in the movies where it is stated that the (30-years later) shield technology around Starkiller Base is the same as that around Endor, then all of these statements that what happened in TFA is invalidated by - or invalidates - the inability to cross the DS2 shield in ROTJ may have some validity. If not, you're just making a huge, unsupported assumption. I'll wait.

And when I see multiple-paragraph posts above about "This is why I loath elements of JJs thinking. . . . . JJ has now completely ruined many of the rules for story logic that allowed everything else concerning hyperspace travel in the Star Wars universe to make sense" - sigh.

Did no one read the script credits for TFA? Script written by "JJ Abrams and Larry Kasdan". Yes, that Larry Kasdan who wrote ESB (and ROTJ - the film that first established whatever "shield rule" people claim is being violated here.)

Again, please provide any proof that any of these ideas didn't originate with Kasdan. Or that Kasdan (who I think we all pretty much agree is the best of the various SW-script writers so far) didn't hear the ideas and say "sounds great!". Either way, those ideas are in a script he worked on from the beginning with JJ and that he put his name on at the end. And recent history has made it clear that Kasdan does not suffer fools lightly or brook disagreement when it is his name on a script at issue, and that both Larry and Kathleen Kennedy will put their foot down if a director tries to take liberties with Kasdan's script or take things in a direction the Kasdan and Kennedy don't agree on:

- numerous published reports have stated that a main reason that Lord and Miller were fired from the Solo film is because they wanted to deviate from the lines as written by Kasdan ("“Lawrence Kasdan would not allow this and demanded that every line was said word for word"); (Hollywood Reporter) (my emphasis)

- “Kathy, her team and Larry Kasdan have been doing it their way for a very long time. They know how the cheese is made and that’s how they want it made,” said the source" (Variety)

**Edited to add - all of the above also shows that (as also reiterated by various articles) Kasdan is not just a "hired gun/write the script and walk away" person on these films. On both TFA and Solo, he stayed actively involved throughout the whole process of filming, and has not been shy about stepping up while film is actually being shot and calling someone out for bad script/story decisions. So, even claims that JJ "must have changed stuff after Kasdan wrote it/without his consent" just go out the window.****

So, unless you have proof that all of these issues were solely "JJs thinking" - in the face of all this contrary evidence that one of our most revered SW writers expressly approved them and took credit for them (and may have in fact come up with them himself), please share. If not, again, you're just making a huge, unsupported assumption.

M

The shield thing was rubbish just like going into hyperspace / light-speed with the creature eating the cockpit. Having the millennium bounce about on the ground was just poor!
TFA was simply a poor film all round, which was a shame as there are at the same time a couple of nice bits too - like the tie fighter chase round the star destroyer wreck (until gun jam and another bounce of the falcon). I could go on there were so many unnecessary bad bits.

I feel Kasdan is simply overrated. It's odd that he's somehow become the keeper of Han's legacy when Han has come off so differently in each movie, which people love to point out, yet somehow take Kasdan out of the equation and look for others to bash. (I like Han in RotJ, for the record).

PantheraGem said:

I feel Kasdan is simply overrated. It's odd that he's somehow become the keeper of Han's legacy when Han has come off so differently in each movie, which people love to point out, yet somehow take Kasdan out of the equation and look for others to bash. (I like Han in RotJ, for the record).

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I don't disagree with this, and do expressly agree with the point about "take Kasdan out of the equation and look for others to bash". Which was my point - unless someone has evidence that all of the stuff they hate about TFA is solely JJ's fault, then making the leaps in this thread that Ep IX will have the same flaws "just because JJ" doesn't make sense.

I guess the Solo film will be a good bellwether on that controversy, since Kasdan was intimately involved and JJ was not. If we see some of the same types of inconsistencies and issues in that film as some have identified in TFA, then casting TFA issues as squarely JJ's fault will be a much weaker argument. (On the other hand, if the Solo film doesn't make any of those "mistakes" and is above reproach, then it will be easier to place any perceived flaws in TFA at JJ's feet.)

M

The endor shield was being jammed so they couldn't tell if it was up or down. Hard to know if you are on the other side of a shield your scanners can't detect.

Sent from my BLU LIFE MARK using Tapatalk

I always looked at it like this- it's Han Solo the Evil Kenevil of Space flight even from the original trilogy he had a universally known speed record for the Kessel Run.

So in TFA with 30 more years of experience maybe he picked up some new tricks.... just like our real life Evil Kenevil.

If you told 99.999999% of the world population to go jump 14 buses on a Harley (they would look at you like no way I am doing that) but one man did...and he did it in reality. So to think a fictional Sci-Fi movie can't have a character who decided to try something no one else has and actually pull it off is a little absurd.

Just cause Han can do it...just like Evil Kenevil can do it...doesn't mean it just becomes an option for the rest of the population. If anything it's a one off event and with Hans Death just become one more thing to add to his legend..."That's the dude who went into hyperspace from a dead start"

anyway my .02 :lol

What it comes down, to me, is do these little techno-babble inconsistencies detract from the overall story - or is it just lazy storytelling? Could they avoid the issue by taking a different route?

In the end, it's about personal preference and whether or not you're able to a sacrifice some of these inconsistencies or inaccuracies for the overall big picture. We can fanboy any of these movies to death over certain points - but, is it worth it? Retaining a Star Wars feel is the most important thing - to me, at least.

In the end, it's Han Solo that made the jump to lightspeed - if any pilot can figure out how to do it, it's Han. How he figured it out isn't that important to the overall story. Yeah, it takes a little bit away from what was a part of ANH - but, it's also been 40 years since ANH... I didn't think I'd have a phone/computer in my pocket like I do now back then.

If you guys think that anyone beyond fanboy level is concerned with these details, you're crazy.

That's not meant to be pejorative-- I struggle with it too. JJ clearly doesn't understand the vastness of space whether its seeing Hosnian Prime go kablooey from a different solar system, beaming from Earth to Quonos, or having ships fight at warp speed... but that doesn't make him any less of a Star Wars fan, nor does it really impact the story for most anyone else.

Could there have been a better way to get past a shield that wouldn't have cause some sort of technical continuity error? Sure-- like how in Rogue One the walkers were designated as cargo haulers not combat models hence them being able to be shot up by blaster fire. But again-- these movies are not made for the fanboys alone.

The jump from the hangar didn't really bother me. Han's ship was already out of Jakku's gravity well, and WAS moving anyway - but I don't think that matters. We've seen Star Destroyers jump from a standstill. Or at least it looked that way.

Usually, the excuse given has been that the NavComputer needs time to calculate the jump. Maybe the Falcon just made the jump that Rey was already planning? Then, they could redirect later to Takodana.

The Starkiller shield is a bit sketchier to me. Not so much because of the idea, but because they said the timing would be SOOOOO critical. That makes sense. But then Han was all "All right, here we go," and casually reaches over to manually drop out of HS. You'd think the computer should have done that... It also would have been neat to see the red HS effect when you get too close to things, like in Rebels.

Ultimately, it's a narrative contrivance for the sake of excitement. Like the blockades that keep showing up. Why do we have to fly through a line of 8 ships that are close together? Why not jump to hyperspace and come back to the planet from the other side?

As far as the jumping to hyperspace without running it through the navcomputer... that was done well before Han did it in TFA. Another recent SW addition established it as being possible (and being canon). R1 shows some dialogue where K2 is going to run the calculations to the jump to hyperspace, while they are escaping the planet being destroyed, and Cassian hammers the U-wing into hyperspace before the calculations are made.

I guess if you hate that, hate Disney for allowing it in multiple films, but JJ isn't the only offender.

Hell, Moore's law - imagine how much faster you can do things now than we could in 1986. We're talking multiple orders of magnitude faster. You're talking 4.77Mhz processors in '86. Fast forward to today - You've got home setups running at 5Ghz, some nutjobs pushing 6Ghz or more. So, just on that basis, they'd have loads faster computers at their disposal.

But - moreso, aside from that, DS2 vs Starkiller is exceeding apples to oranges. If not Apples to lego's.

Starkiller, roughly the size of Endor. DS2, a fraction of the sized of Endor. And as I pointed out earlier - an atmosphere gives you MILES of leeway to jump inside a shield of Starkiller. There is no leeway on the DS2 as you'd immediately implode yourself on it's surface. And as it was pointed out earlier, they didn't even know if the shield was up. In order to jump inside it, you have to know where it is. They did not have that info DS2. FInn, had the info (more or less) for Starkiller.

There are major structural and emotional issues with TFA. The technical aspects of hyperdrives seem so insignificant compared to R2's coma/wakeup, Han's boring and totally predictable death, throwaway Chewie, the non-stop action set pieces, etc.

I generally appreciated the humor, the new characters, the overall tone. It felt a lot more like Star Wars than the prequels had, for sure. It does feel lazy in too many places though, and I can't say I think it's a good movie. If it wasn't Star Wars, I might never have sat through it. I wish it had worked as a standalone film as well as a launching pad for a bigger arc (why couldn't they have lifted that from ANH?). I wouldn't say JJ isn't a fan or anything - he says he is, why shouldn't I take his word for it? - but I would prefer someone else get this gig after seeing what he does with the opportunity. Hopefully the story group has something really solid charted out, and all he has to do is polish up the dialogue and make it look good - he's capable enough with those two areas, IMO.

I find it humorous y'all are seriously talking about hyperspace jumps and shields when in ESB they flew into an asteroid field, and into the belly of a giant worm, exiting a spacecraft wearing only oxygen masks, then flew out of it between the giant worms teeth.

This is a total Clerks Randall moment.

robstyle said:

I find it humorous y'all are seriously talking about hyperspace jumps and shields when in ESB they flew into an asteroid field, and into the belly of a giant worm, exiting a spacecraft wearing only oxygen masks, then flew out of it between the giant worms teeth.

This is a total Clerks Randall moment.

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Excatly. And even more insane to suggest it's an indictment of someone's fandom.

Jumping from the ship without a plotted destination didn't bother me. What bothered me was the junpong through the shield to get onto startiller base, because planets have these things called gravity wells (in SW at least, dunno if it's true in reality) and these gravity wells pull ships out if hyperspace. It's all explained, in canon, in one of the novels (A New Dawn I think?) before TFA came out. Also, interdictor cruisers are specifically designed for that purpose...to simulate gravity wells and pull ships out of hyperspace or prevent them from entering it. This was seen in Rebels...I want to say season 2, but I could be wrong. So yes, they did break their own rules in TFA to get around a problem they othwrwise couldn't figure out how to explain effectively.

seelsa73 said:

Jumping from the ship without a plotted destination didn't bother me. What bothered me was the junpong through the shield to get onto startiller base, because planets have these things called gravity wells (in SW at least, dunno if it's true in reality) and these gravity wells pull ships out if hyperspace. It's all explained, in canon, in one of the novels (A New Dawn I think?) before TFA came out. Also, interdictor cruisers are specifically designed for that purpose...to simulate gravity wells and pull ships out of hyperspace or prevent them from entering it. This was seen in Rebels...I want to say season 2, but I could be wrong. So yes, they did break their own rules in TFA to get around a problem they othwrwise couldn't figure out how to explain effectively.

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All objects have gravity, even you, your couch, your phone, anything with mass has gravity and creates a gravity well, a bending of time/space. So the concept of a gravity well isn't consequential, the size of that well is and is still not well defined in SW.