Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

Bravo, Jonah, bravo.

About time i saw a defender. Your hope and positivity made me smile. :)

I too am looking forward to discussing Ep 9.

I've a feeling we're SUPPOSED to feel despondent and frustrated, and i'm guessing 9 will remedy that with a triumphant finale.

Rich
 
That's kind of the point though, what is there really to triumph over? Kylo Ren? Pfffft....big whoop.

The end of 8 is like the next to last chapter of a book. They've dealt the enemy a mortal blow and the final chapter is just finishing them off. Kylo isn't a compelling leader or, frankly, a compelling threat. We've not even seen him beat anything, really, except an un-armed han solo, a computer console, and his helmet. He had one 'i'm a bad ass' moment in the first 30 second of TFA and then was revealed to NOT be that big a deal after the fact.

Sure, you can stick text in the crawl of IX saying Kylo's gone mega bad ass and solidified the FO, etc, etc. But it's unearned and it wouldn't be compelling.

So, can you have a triumphant finale' with nothing really to triumph over? Is it still triumphant if you just make up what you defeat after 8 takes place? That's a triumph for a single flick, not a trilogy.

The thing that leaves the biggest of the bad tastes in my mouth is the fact that whole concept of star wars - pre-purchase anyhow - was about the Skywalker family (whether everyone likes that or not, it's what it was). The Skywalker family, in essence, built star wars. So, the New Era conclusion to the skywalker family is a big F-U, you suck, get lost ending. About the only way it isn't is if we find out Poe or Rey happen to be Skywalkers somehow and from all indications that isn't the case.

I've posed the question in this thread on where does it go from here and there hasn't been much response and it all degenerates back into 8 and/or the ST blows every time.

I'm curious as to what people think is a good what to end this trilogy - and from what they said pre-7, that it's an ending for the skywalker saga as well. That ending as noted above seems like its going to suck royally as there's not really a way to redeem the lineage at this point without revealing Rey to be part of it as she's the only real possibility.
 
Whats to discuss about 9 really? If TLJ did one thing, it demonstrated Lucasfilm has no plan, and is not held to any Star Wars "tradition". They demonstrate no urgency to logically follow anything up either, for that matter. The first two movies in this trilogy dont relate to each other any more than they relate to Star Wars as we know it. I expect the third to feel equally disjointed.

Bringing Luke back as a major influence, even as a force ghost, sounds ridiculous - and frankly is beyond the talent of JJ.

Same for Snoke . Not that either have to happen, just making suppositions.

I feel some significant amount of time needs to pass to allow the resistance to mature, for kylo to develop in to a compelling leader of the first order, and for Rey , well she's nigh invulnerable so she will demonstrate little change.

Thing is, for all that to happen, it will create even more unknowns that won't ever be answered on-screen. The entire galaxy left the resistance to fail and die in ep 8. I dont know how theyre going to regenerate to a viable opponent in a reasonable timeline, especially when other media demonstrates how reluctant the galaxy has been to organize a defense against tyranny .
 
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The thing that leaves the biggest of the bad tastes in my mouth is the fact that whole concept of star wars - pre-purchase anyhow - was about the Skywalker family (whether everyone likes that or not, it's what it was).

Not until the mid-'90s. It was while George was gearing up for his 20th anniversary release of Sta Wars that Rick McCallum, who he'd brought on as co-producer, convinced him to do the Prequels that he wasn't going to do, and that all six films together were about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Thus relegating Luke to a supporting character to that arc and focus, changing the context of the three already-existing films, and pulling the rug out from under Obi-Wan -- who, up until that point, was the central character for the early episodes.

So. Either each arc is about a character who is bound to the central character of the other arcs -- through ties of blood or otherwise -- or else all nine films are about Vader, extending the ex post facto focus imposed on the pre-Disney saga. It's not necessarily about "the Skywalkers", per se.

I'm curious as to what people think is a good what to end this trilogy - and from what they said pre-7, that it's an ending for the skywalker saga as well. That ending as noted above seems like its going to suck royally as there's not really a way to redeem the lineage at this point without revealing Rey to be part of it as she's the only real possibility.

For it to be a proper, tied-up-with-a-bow end, Empire, Republic, Resistance, First Order, Jedi, Sith... All of it needs to end. Break the cycle. Create something new that isn't driven by past hatreds, but is still informed by an awareness and acknowledgement of that past. The Empire was already a teeth-pulled remnant. The First Order took out the Republic government. Their own primary weapon and command ship have been lost. The Resistance has been decimated. It's a good set up to wiping the rest of the slate clean.

Best/likeliest way to do that? I won't speculate yet.

--Jonah
 
For it to be a proper, tied-up-with-a-bow end, Empire, Republic, Resistance, First Order, Jedi, Sith... All of it needs to end. Break the cycle. Create something new that isn't driven by past hatreds, but is still informed by an awareness and acknowledgement of that past. The Empire was already a teeth-pulled remnant. The First Order took out the Republic government. Their own primary weapon and command ship have been lost. The Resistance has been decimated. It's a good set up to wiping the rest of the slate clean.

This could have been set up perfectly in TLJ as Rey and Ren teaming up and trying to create something new. Biggest missed opportunity to move the saga to a new unseen and exciting (and probably too smart for SW) direction. But we got the status quo back with the hope of a new revellion rising from the ashes against the new empire that rose from the ashes, same old same old. Absolutely no intention to break any cycle.

Best/likeliest way to do that? I won't speculate yet.

--Jonah
I don’t understand, you complain (rightly) that there’s only ep8 discussion in the ep9 thread and you don’t want to speculate? What else would there be in an ep9 thread?
In fact, let’s turn this around, try to get the direction back on the next chapter and discuss that and speculate (even though that’s what got on my nerves big time after TFA).
Let’s play a game, there’s loads of pro and con TLJ people, try to drop that as much as possible and let’s try to sketch up how each of us would like this trilogy to end.

I would like Rey to have some rather large struggles, and a massive moral decision to make almost like a damned if you do and damned if you don’t one. That would be un-Star Warsy given the simple good vs evil but if executed well I think it could work. I also want a proper love story thread, I kinda expected Laura Dern ending up with Poe but I guess it’s not fashionable these days. And no, Rose and Finn were not a proper love story.
I also want Kylo Ren to have an unexpected conclusion. At this point he either dies as an evil enemy or redeems and dies like Vader. Don’t know what the third route could be, I think the Snape-arc wouldn’t work but I don’t have anything specific in mind.

My expectations and enthusiasm and general interest are minimal though, but the topic is still up for discussion.
 
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For it to be a proper, tied-up-with-a-bow end, Empire, Republic, Resistance, First Order, Jedi, Sith... All of it needs to end. Break the cycle. Create something new that isn't driven by past hatreds, but is still informed by an awareness and acknowledgement of that past. The Empire was already a teeth-pulled remnant. The First Order took out the Republic government. Their own primary weapon and command ship have been lost. The Resistance has been decimated. It's a good set up to wiping the rest of the slate clean.

I would like Rey to have some rather large struggles, and a massive moral decision to make almost like a damned if you do and damned if you don’t one. That would be un-Star Warsy given the simple good vs evil but if executed well I think it could work. I also want a proper love story thread, I kinda expected Laura Dern ending up with Poe but I guess it’s not fashionable these days. And no, Rose and Finn were not a proper love story.
I also want Kylo Ren to have an unexpected conclusion. At this point he either dies as an evil enemy or redeems and dies like Vader. Don’t know what the third route could be, I think the Snape-arc wouldn’t work but I don’t have anything specific in mind.

My expectations and enthusiasm and general interest are minimal though, but the topic is still up for discussion.

I think they will move forward with a romantic relationship for Finn and Rose. I would like to see Rey become a version of Jedi we haven't seen before, think more Qui-gon less Obi-wan. I think IX needs to put her out in the galaxy free from any of the previous Jedi dogma and I think we will learn more about why the Force has selected her to be who she is. Kylo is a tough one, I don't think I can see an outcome her survives but I am unsure what his death will mean, either redemptive or simply as a bad dude.
 
I think they will move forward with a romantic relationship for Finn and Rose. I would like to see Rey become a version of Jedi we haven't seen before, think more Qui-gon less Obi-wan. I think IX needs to put her out in the galaxy free from any of the previous Jedi dogma and I think we will learn more about why the Force has selected her to be who she is. Kylo is a tough one, I don't think I can see an outcome her survives but I am unsure what his death will mean, either redemptive or simply as a bad dude.
I’m not sure what Jedi dogma was the one that had to be purged. That was one of the things I didn’t get in TLJ. Considering that the prequel Jedi order was gone (kidnapped at the age of 3 and forbidden to love etc) the only thing Luke faced as a Jedi is staying away from the dark side. So not sure what would be the big paradigm shift at that point that hasn’t happened.
I wouldn’t mind a bittersweet ending, probably Kylo will have some importance or link where he won’t be just killable. Something like how Harry Potter ended but without Harry coming back from the death. Dunno how Star Warsy that would be but I just really really don’t want another campfire celebration after blowing up a superweapon.
 
I’m not sure what Jedi dogma was the one that had to be purged. That was one of the things I didn’t get in TLJ. Considering that the prequel Jedi order was gone (kidnapped at the age of 3 and forbidden to love etc) the only thing Luke faced as a Jedi is staying away from the dark side. So not sure what would be the big paradigm shift at that point that hasn’t happened.
I wouldn’t mind a bittersweet ending, probably Kylo will have some importance or link where he won’t be just killable. Something like how Harry Potter ended but without Harry coming back from the death. Dunno how Star Warsy that would be but I just really really don’t want another campfire celebration after blowing up a superweapon.

Well we know the PT Jedi and Luke both structured the Jedi around an organization, a Temple or Academy. I would like to see Rey get away from that and allow a more spiritual version of the Living Force to flourish without boundaries. Maybe she ends up back on Jakku but with a happier life. I’m with you, no big celebrations but just smaller more intimate moments and endings that can really resonate.
 
I don’t understand, you complain (rightly) that there’s only ep8 discussion in the ep9 thread and you don’t want to speculate? What else would there be in an ep9 thread?

There are too many objective possibilities, I have not been privy to any of the story/brainstorming sessions, no one involved has said boo, I have no data at all to go on. I could fill pages with what I would do -- starting with expanding this arc (as with the others) out to six films, so the story actually has the room to grow and develop organically. As it is, I'm only going to discuss what's been said in interviews, shown at conventions, etc., and only speculate once we have even a smidgen of a hint of the direction the people making it are taking the story. As it is, we don't even know yet if IX is picking up immediately after VIII or is going to be several to many years later.

--Jonah
 
There are too many objective possibilities, I have not been privy to any of the story/brainstorming sessions, no one involved has said boo, I have no data at all to go on. I could fill pages with what I would do -- starting with expanding this arc (as with the others) out to six films, so the story actually has the room to grow and develop organically. As it is, I'm only going to discuss what's been said in interviews, shown at conventions, etc., and only speculate once we have even a smidgen of a hint of the direction the people making it are taking the story. As it is, we don't even know yet if IX is picking up immediately after VIII or is going to be several to many years later.

--Jonah

For sure, and I have been trying to post pertinent links to Ep. IX related news stories only to have the usual suspects chime in with a page or two of TLJ hate and insults which do nothing to move this particular conversation forward.
 
Oh, I'm not leaving. :p It'd just be great to come in here and find actual discussion about Episode IX, rather than post after post chewing old soup as far as "everything wrong with Episode VIII". While I wasn't thrilled with the execution of the previous episode -- and the new trilogy in general -- I'm staying engaged because it's what we've got. Y'all wanna go in circles about everything they're doing wrong and what it ought to have been, fine. It's just not really contributing anything to the discussion, especially for the forthcoming next chapter. There are several threads currently expressly for people to bang on about how LFL/KK/JJ/RJ/etc. have screwed everything up. Many user names in the last three pages I have seen raising the same points again and again over the last several months in multiple threads. We get it. I gave my own general and specific critique of TLJ -- over in its thread -- back in December, plus a couple follow-on thoughts as they occurred to me. I am not going to repeat myself every time the "anti" camp raise the same already-discussed points. The only thing I could do beyond not bothering wold be to pist links to the specific posts I made weeks and months ago, as my opinion hasn't been altered by the "it sucks" chorus. One wonders why those so vehemently agaisnt the films keep saying the same things over and over. We heard you the first time. And the second. And the tenth. You're not going to win converts, and no one from Lucasfilm is going to be reading your posts and suddenly realize the error of their ways.

So.

I'll keep looking in from time to time to see if someone is actually discussing Episode IX without puking all over the new films or anyone who dares to support them in even the slightest degree. Have fun yelling into the void.

--Jonah

P.S. I'm one of the ones planning to buy TLJ on BluRay when it comes out. I'm helping one friend with a Rey costume and another with a Resistance pilot costume, and am doing a First Order Stormtrooer, myself. While I don't like everything, I am having fun regardless.

I've been incredibly vocal about my hatred for the film but I have never attacked anyone personally for liking or even loving it. I also have no intention of changing anyone's mind about how they feel either. All of my opinions are just that, my opinions.

The reason I keep harping on it is because I as much as I wish I didn't care so much about the series, I really do, and I truly hate the direction they are pushing it in. When you're passionate about something you fight for it, even when you know the fight is already lost. Posting about it is just my way to come to terms with it and vent some frustration, maybe even elicit a laugh at my absurdity.

If you love The Last Jedi, more power to you and if you wish to buy the movie and make props and costumes from the movie, I honestly envy you. I wish I felt the same way, I sincerely do. But I don't feel that way and I'm fine with agreeing that we may never see eye to eye.

Sure discussing the latest episode may not be "contributing" directly to the discussion of 9, but considering that it's the latest installment and that 7, 8, and 9 are supposed to be an interlinked trilogy I think it goes without saying that the previous two films are going to come up. A lot. Especially when it's still so early on and 9 hasn't even begun filming yet. There is little to no news other than fan speculation and a predominant part of the conversation is going to revolve around TFA and TLJ because fans debate what we may or may not see in relation to the events in those movies. So to say that complaining about TLJ is just fans whining, then wouldn't it also be fair to say that fans defending it isn't much different? That IS the debate.

No matter what ANY of us say, Lucasfilm, Disney, Rian Johnson, J. J. Abrams, Kathleen Kennedy, and George Lucas don't care. They simply don't care what any of us think. They don't read these forums. Our opinions are not going to shape the way they choose to run their business. They are going to do whatever they want to do, however they want to do it.

It would be nice if Episode 9 wraps things up in a meaningful way and that it will restore my faith in the series as a whole. Maybe I will be wrong about these new films. I can admit that but I'm not putting any hope in that idea and in the mean time I'm just coming to accept that the Original Trilogy is what matters most to me.

If you loved TLJ and can't wait until 9, I wish I felt the same way. I really do.
 
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No matter what ANY of us say, Lucasfilm, Disney, Rian Johnson, J. J. Abrams, Kathleen Kennedy, and George Lucas don't care. They simply don't care what any of us think. They don't read these forums. Our opinions are not going to shape the way they choose to run their business. They are going to do whatever they want to do, however they want to do it.

I doubt very much that anyone is voicing their feelings to attract the attention of any of them, as someone mentioned earlier, its a good form of therapy at best. Pertinent links Bryan, please, your just a promoter.
 
Honestly, I didn't love TLJ. But also don't hate it so much it ruined Star Wars for me. While I have little interest in Solo, I'm sure I'll be there opening night for Episode IX, if only to see how JJ digs himself out of the hole that Riann dug.
 
I really disliked TLJ the first time I saw it. I waited quite a while before attempting to watch it again. I think my biggest problem with this film was the preconceived notions I developed over the two years between 7 & 8. My biggest complaint was with Rey's incredible power and the Luke story arc. However, as far a s Luke is concerned, when I went back and really paid attention to what was being said, vs. what I was seeing, I understood it better. This is just my opinion, but my view has drastically changed from my first viewing. I still have some problems with it, but RJ certainly did what he said he would and that was give us something new, which I am warming up to. I cannot change it, so I either accept it or turn my back on a piece of the series that has brought me a lot of joy for 42 years. All because I initially hated one episode the first time I saw it (which I now do not).

So, as far as I am concerned, I will continue to enjoy all SW (including this one) and give them an opportunity to thrill me with 9. One thing I will certainly try not to do this time around is speculate (as much) and get wrapped up in all of the theories that led me into the TLJ only to leave me disappointed.

Some will disagree and stand pat on their current opinion and that is ok. We cannot all expect to like it. Keep in perspective there are now 8 movies in this series. Is there any franchise with 8 films heading towards 9 (not counting stand alone stories) that we all liked? But we can discuss them and take away some tidbits of each others opinion and progress forward.

I do recommend (especially die hard fans) to watch it again forgetting the things you expected and really listening to the story rather than just watching it.

Unlearn what you have learned, don't always look to the horizon and keep your mind on where we are, what we are doing! ~ Yoda (paraphrased a bit)
 
My take on Ep.IX ... It doesn’t matter what’s made , shot or shown . Before the film ends , everyone dies ... Everyone and everything . The End .

Then another Big Bang occurs in that universe , and Rian Johnson comes along with his super dooper , insanely brilliant , beautifully crafted and realised trilogy , he’s so clever after all - saving Star Wars !!!

YAY .
 
Episode 9: Rey spontaneously gets pregnant by the Force and gives birth to the new Chosen One 'cause she don't need no man.

You. You stop giving them ideas.

Disney top execs browsing the RPF for ideas right meow...
It could work.jpg
 
Oh, and regarding the one bit of recent "news" I referred to before...


Bryan, try not to post non-journalistic click-bait. That was cringe-worthy. They asked Domhnall about his role in IX, and he said since JJ only just finished the script, none of the actors had gotten notification of when they'd be needed yet. His jokey remark that he didn't even know if he was in the film was taken waaaaaaaay too literally by the "journalist".

--Jonah
 
Oh, and regarding the one bit of recent "news" I referred to before...



Bryan, try not to post non-journalistic click-bait. That was cringe-worthy. They asked Domhnall about his role in IX, and he said since JJ only just finished the script, none of the actors had gotten notification of when they'd be needed yet. His jokey remark that he didn't even know if he was in the film was taken waaaaaaaay too literally by the "journalist".

--Jonah

I agree but it was all I could find to try and post something relevant to IX to get people to at least discuss the right film! :) The script has been done since Dec. and shooting starts in July so it’s not unreasonable to think actors are being contacted now. I believe Hux will be back.
 
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Unreasonable? not at all.

It'd be irresponsible to not have contacted them by now frankly as they have to make their schedules, etc.
 
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