Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

Mr Webber said:

Talk, like Star Wars toys....is cheap.

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Lego Star Wars toys are 10 cents a piece. But that's another thread

Here's what is going to happen in Episode 9. J.J. will try to fix the problems created by The Last Jedi.

He will not be able to fix most of them and so retcons them, or ignores them completely. It will make insane amounts of money, tank in China, and fans will be divided over how this new trilogy ended.

Plot? Rey will kill Kylo Ren. Roll Credits.

Psab keel said:

Here's what is going to happen in Episode 9. J.J. will try to fix the problems created by The Last Jedi.

He will not be able to fix most of them and so retcons them, or ignores them completely. It will make insane amounts of money, tank in China, and fans will be divided over how this new trilogy ended.

Plot? Rey will kill Kylo Ren. Roll Credits.

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Don't forget superweapon on which the majority of the First Order amasses so the Resistance can eliminate all of them in a single strike and declare a victorious conclusion.

Sorry, I forgot about that part. Yeah that too. ; )

At this point I'm just trying to find entertainment in ragging on the poor creative decisions that Disney is making. I can't get bent out of shape about the series anymore. I spent too many years being mad about it and I need to just move on with my life. Sad, I know but I'm sick of being disappointed.

So, where does everyone see the story for IX going?

In the PT, after AOTC, the expectation for ROTS was obvious:
-Anakin had to become vader
-Sidious had to take over and become emperor
-Lots of people had to die (padme, jedi, etc)
-Anakin had to fight Ben, and lose badly.
-Clones become stormtroopers

(Granted a lot of that was because we already had 4-6 and it had to dovetail in, but still)

After ESB, we knew ROTJ had to:
-Get Han out of freezing
-Luke had to complete his training
-Luke had to face Vader
-Empire had to fall

Now, after TLJ, what has to happen? Presumably you'd say Rey has to take down Kylo (which she did once, so not a huge deal to see it again), The FO has to fall...but both sides just got their butts kicked in TLJ. This could go anywhere. They don't have to do any of the above. So, what do you think should or has to happen?

cboath said:

So, where does everyone see the story for IX going?

In the PT, after AOTC, the expectation for ROTS was obvious:
-Anakin had to become vader
-Sidious had to take over and become emperor
-Lots of people had to die (padme, jedi, etc)
-Anakin had to fight Ben, and lose badly.
-Clones become stormtroopers

(Granted a lot of that was because we already had 4-6 and it had to dovetail in, but still)

After ESB, we knew ROTJ had to:
-Get Han out of freezing
-Luke had to complete his training
-Luke had to face Vader
-Empire had to fall

Now, after TLJ, what has to happen? Presumably you'd say Rey has to take down Kylo (which she did once, so not a huge deal to see it again), The FO has to fall...but both sides just got their butts kicked in TLJ. This could go anywhere. They don't have to do any of the above. So, what do you think should or has to happen?

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The way TLJ ended sort of closed the trilogy.....there wasn't a cliff hanger like there was in TFA......at the end of it you were dying to see what happened......but now???

J

Jaitea said:

The way TLJ ended sort of closed the trilogy.....there wasn't a cliff hanger like there was in TFA......at the end of it you were dying to see what happened......but now???

J

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I am. I love Rey and can't wait to see what happens to her.

Rey defeats Kylo Ren and inadvertently becomes the defacto Supreme Leader of the First Order. Trilogy ends on a massive cliffhanger.

There really isn't a satisfying way to end this trilogy. There is no emotional underpinning to give us a reason to care about Kylo and Rey facing off. That's what the films need to about anyway. All of the flash and battles aside these movies are about the personal struggles between the characters.

Rey and Ren are equally matched in the Force so that could add up to an underwhelming showdown.

The Resistance is utterly annihilated as is the First Order.

Leia will not be in the movie so Poe will be the leader?

Luke and Han are dead.

Rey had absolutely NO training. She automatically has a mastery of the Force. So no conflict there. Nothing new to learn. Yoda himself even said the Jedi Books didn't have any new or important information.

Snoke is Dead. So no satisfying showdown there.

Kylo Ren is beyond saving. So he has to die, but we won't feel bad for him after murdering Han Solo.

Rey's parentage has already been answered so nothing to answer there.

TLJ just closed off the story so what's the point?

Structurally it played as the third act of a trilogy so how do you end things? You can, but it won't be satisfying at all and it likely won't make a whole lot of sense.

This is why many in the Star Wars fandom feel like the series is dying. I mean, it's dead. It's over right?

Say what you want about Return of the Jedi but at least it wasn't such a downer. It was an emotionally satisfying end to the trilogy and it fit the characters and themes that had been established in the previous films.

The prequels were about the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker.

The original trilogy was about Luke becoming a hero and redeeming his father.

One thing is clear, the sequel trilogy has ZERO overarching plot. ZERO.

Psab keel said:

There really isn't a satisfying way to end this trilogy. There is no emotional underpinning to give us a reason to care about Kylo and Rey facing off. That's what the films need to about anyway. All of the flash and battles aside these movies are about the personal struggles between the characters.

Rey and Ren are equally matched in the Force so that could add up to an underwhelming showdown.

The Resistance is utterly annihilated as is the First Order.

Leia will not be in the movie so Poe will be the leader?

Luke and Han are dead.

Rey had absolutely NO training. She automatically has a mastery of the Force. So no conflict there. Nothing new to learn. Yoda himself even said the Jedi Books didn't have any new or important information.

Snoke is Dead. So no satisfying showdown there.

Kylo Ren is beyond saving. So he has to die, but we won't feel bad for him after murdering Han Solo.

Rey's parentage has already been answered so nothing to answer there.

TLJ just closed off the story so what's the point?

Structurally it played as the third act of a trilogy so how do you end things? You can, but it won't be satisfying at all and it likely won't make a whole lot of sense.

This is why many in the Star Wars fandom feel like the series is dying. I mean, it's dead. It's over right?

Say what you want about Return of the Jedi but at least it wasn't such a downer. It was an emotionally satisfying end to the trilogy and it fit the characters and themes that had been established in the previous films.

The prequels were about the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker.

The original trilogy was about Luke becoming a hero and redeeming his father.

One thing is clear, the sequel trilogy has ZERO overarching plot. ZERO.

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And some people still think this guy`s gunna get three more movies, Sure.

Again, as Rich Evans said, the end of TLJ is like a setup for a Saturday morning cartoon show where the Resistance can fight the evil forces of Kylo Ren every week instead of the second act of a trilogy. Status quo established at the end and that’s it. Stylistically and on a technical level I have no doubt that Ep9 will be great. JJ is a competent filmmaker, at least I’m not worried about the tone being totally all over the map and coming out of the cinema (or turning off the BR player more likely) thinking “was this a huge prank?”. Story-wise however...anything new will feel rushed amd not developed and anything known will be...well known.

TheDavisBros said:

Who here can't wait for the Rian Johnson trilogy!!!

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Talked directly to the guy through his instagram pointed out something 11 months before the release, he basically said not to worry and that was BS, like TLJ.

So no thanks. We're good.

It'll end with Rey starting a Jedi academy. Last movie was about rehabilitating the Jedi order.

If the son of Darth Vader himself failed with his own Jedi Academy, then how could Rey be successful at it? So she can teach the broom kid what? How to lift rocks? That whole ending with the kids was so ****ing dumb.

The thing that gets me too is why would Rian Johnson introduce the Jedi Books if Yoda said "page turners they were not." Then there was literally no point in even having them in the movie. Luke didn't even read them. It was a useless idea. Assuming Rey can even read them because who says they are in a language she even knows, there will be nothing to learn from them. They might as well have burned in the tree.

And then there is the matter of Luke himself. They just threw away everything he went through in the original trilogy and made him a bitter old man. Not a hero. A real hero would have gotten off his ass and showed up in person to fix his mistakes. He died a coward by dying alone on that island. Mark Hamill and Luke Skywalker both deserved better than that.

This is why I hate this movie so ****ing much! And while it wasn't Rian Johnson's fault for making movie after movie that disappointed, I can say with confidence that his movie was what killed Star Wars for me. So that same guy is now making his own trilogy. Why the **** would I want to see those? So he can continue to **** on something I love?

I know people could say to me, then why are you bitching about it on a forum if you don't care anymore. The problem is that I care too much. I've been a fan my whole life and that story was an insult to my fandom. Not because it tried new things but because it plainly said to the fans that they don't matter. The characters you aspire to are no better than you and me and themes that have made this series as relevant today as it did 40 years ago aren't important anymore. We need heroes to look up to. To show us that we need to think about things greater than ourselves. Star Wars gave that to a lot of people. These movies were supposed to inspire young people.

What message will these new movies tell the next generation?

Will it teach them that they already know everything and that they don't have to work for it? (Rey's lack of training and non existent struggle with the Force.)

Will it teach them that despite everything you do, in the end you will die bitter and alone? (Luke's failure with Ben.)

Will it teach them that it's better to serve yourself than to die for the greater good? (Rose stopping Finn from sacrificing himself to save the Resistance.)

Sadly many people in this world don't have a moral compass to guide them through life and so they derive it from pop culture. Luckily I was raised by a good family who very frankly taught me right from wrong, but in Star Wars I had a vivid example that inspired me to follow that compass that had been instilled in me by my parents. It had clearly defined heroes who knew right from wrong and inspired me to do great things. Star Wars sparked me to write my novel and learn new skills that have given me the opportunity to meet people from all over the world. I've made some wonderful friendships and have a community of like minded people because of it.

It breaks my heart to see all of that thrown away with contempt in favor of a new paradigm where moral ambiguity is more important than doing what is right. That's the REAL reason why so many fans are upset about the direction this whole thing is going.

So Episode 9? Why does it really matter anymore?

It'll have the real story end, and then cut to some throwaway scene where a kid in the galaxy cleans his room with the force.

Psab keel said:

<snip> It breaks my heart to see all of that thrown away with contempt in favor of a new paradigm where moral ambiguity is more important than doing what is right <snip>

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This was the post that speaks for so many. Well said! One little thing regarding moral ambiguity...IMO, TFA gave us a glimpse of that in Ben, and TLJ more or less stripped him of it (for reasons that I had to dig deep to find, if just as a pacifier until IX). Is that how you saw it, and did you find Ben an interesting and relatable character in TFA?

I confess to being one that sees Ben simply as a troubled and misguided young man, just wanting to belong to something, all the while hiding his insecurities beneath a mask. More burdened by his powers than anything. I was lambasted often on the Jedi Council boards regarding my approach to him, typically for one (or more) of three reasons: He killed Han, he was "whiney", and he was "lame" (not a powerful villain). I found all of these to be endearing (not so much that he killed Han, but the "why", which involves both the catwalk scene and my own inner narrative), as regards a relatable character that can serve as a mirror for us to see certain facets of ourselves.

As you seem to be someone who looks to have really thought this through, I'm curious how you see Ben as a character?

Lotsa hate for poor Broom Boy! I loved that ending myself.

In TFA I found Ben to be interesting and a more effective conflicted character than Anakin ever was. People who thought he paled in comparison to Vader seemed to miss the point that he aspired to be like his grandfather and knew he could never live up to it. I don't find it whiney so much as his temper that left him unhinged and dangerous. In TLJ he was probably the only character who had any arc aside from Poe.

When he and Rey defeat the guards it would have been more interesting if he tried to get Rey to run off with him and abandon the conflict all together. To have him try and tempt her to start a new life would have been a really cool twist. Rey could have tried to convince him to help her end the war and when he leaves it could have set up the third film where she is tracking him down to make him answer for his crimes. Her motivation would be that Kylo helped create this whole mess and he left her to clean it up.

I hate the broom kid because it was totally unnecessary and despite their knowledge that those kids were slaves Finn and Rose thought it more important to free one single creature for a few hours than say I don't know, free slaves? They themselves said that the creature was just going to get caught again anyway so why bother?

Slavery is apparently not so frowned upon in this universe. Anakin never bothered to try and convince the council to go back and help free his fellow slaves. Just terrible terrible writing.

The jedi don't, or rather didn't, exist to police everything. They simply aren't going to go to worlds where slaving is common and likely lawful and force their views on those places. The essentially said in the prequels that their numbers were low and they could only do so much..

In as far as Rose and Finn go, the options were, free the kids to, the what? streets? to fend for themselves? They barely got off the planet on their own and if they did, they're taking to a ship being beat down by the FO where they stood a substantial chance at dying.

The broom kid was to show the effect of luke's sacrifice and that there were others out there who were going to follow in his footsteps. That doesn't mean I like what they did with Luke at all, i don't, but, that's what the point was I just don't think they made it clear enough. Shoulda made it more like play-acting 'i'm Luke Skywalker!' as he pulls the broom to himself.

As for the books not being page turners, meh, semantics. Stories are page turners. Instruction manuals generally are not. Doesn't mean in the slightest that there isn't valuable information there.

All that said, my point in asking the question above was that there's nothing they have to do in the next one. If there was no IX, there's nothing to say along the lines of 'but what about...' As noted, it's pretty wrapped up right now. I was excited about what happened to Luke post ROTJ, too. They never did anything with that. And it wasn't needed in the context of 4-6. What does Rey do next? That is NOT a compelling story for the capper of a trilogy that was supposed to cap 1-9 as well. The only capping thing that i can think of is Leia's funeral. We're capping 1-9 by killing off any lingering aspects of 1-6 and doing so in a generally all around crappy way. But I digress

There isn't anything they HAVE to do in IX. That's extremely problematic for a trilogy. There's supposed to be an over arching story that completes in the third act. There's nothing left open for the third act.

We don't KNOW that. We assume that based on thinking this trilogy will mirror the previous two in some way.