Mr Webber
Master Member
The whole thing is a terrible shame, this trilogy was supposed to wrap up the saga that has meant so much to so many for so long. It had its heart ripped out.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
The whole thing is a terrible shame, this trilogy was supposed to wrap up the saga that has meant so much to so many for so long. It had its heart ripped out.
sztriki
Sr Member
And since we established via Yoda that Force ghosts can interact with the physical world there’s nothing in the way of a good old Force-ghost lightsaber fight. Hell, let’s bring everyone back, Anakin vs Obi-Wan rematch, Luke vs Snoke, all Rey and Kylo need to do is pass the popcorn tub to each other. It would be epic and visually stunning and fascinating!
God, I hate contemporary cinema...:lol
Not only that but why would he keep projecting his bisected corpse for the janitors and Huxter and etc to come in and see it? What if they wouldn’t come in for like half a day?
PantheraGem
Sr Member
At least it will cut down on the lens flare.
cboath
Master Member
And since we established via Yoda that Force ghosts can interact with the physical world there’s nothing in the way of a good old Force-ghost lightsaber fight. Hell, let’s bring everyone back, Anakin vs Obi-Wan rematch, Luke vs Snoke, all Rey and Kylo need to do is pass the popcorn tub to each other. It would be epic and visually stunning and fascinating!
God, I hate contemporary cinema...:lol
Not only that but why would he keep projecting his bisected corpse for the janitors and Huxter and etc to come in and see it? What if they wouldn’t come in for like half a day?
Luke took no effects because it was HIS projection and he didn't choose to show any effects from the blasting. The effect was to make it look as if it had no effect (which on a projection it would no). If Snoke was a projection - it was his projection. He could make him self be cut in half to make everyone believe he was dead. it would be his choice. Holding it for a particular length of time isn't a big deal if it was a projection either. He may have stopped as well....Luke was gone, then we went back to crait to see Kylo in the base and he picked up the dice (which were also projections) which then faded after that.
So that is how it could happen based solely off things that actually happened on screen.
I'm torn about Snoke returning. On one hand, he shouldn't. That should be it. On the other, though, Kylo IS NOT a leader and not capable of being 'the big bad' for 9 to tie everything up.
He's not coming back. He was ill defined and served a limited purpose albeit serviceable. This is Kylo's story now.
Mr Webber
Master Member
Well you were the one that raised the issue only an hour or so ago.
If this is now Kylos story then..... As C3P0 said "We`re Doomed"
cboath
Master Member
That's your opinion and you're probably right, but it's not 100% at this point.
That said, being kylo's story is the problem frankly. There's nothing compelling left for him frankly unless 9 is another 3 and the bad guys win. Rey already took him down once, he's not compelling as the big bad (though is/could be as a redemption), he's a hot head nutjob who anyone with a brain wouldn't follow.
They could do a multi year break and then say he's now a bad ass leader, but it wouldn't be right. It's not earned. Killing the big bad does not equal being worthy of being the new big bad. What we've seen is on screen is, in TFA, faced no one really until rey. Rey got the better of him in the interrogation and in the saber fight. He had jack to do with blowing up the planets - he was just on the base when it happened. In TLJ, Snoke played him like a puppet to get to Rey. He got fed up and killed snoke, and seemingly would have gotten taken down by the guards if not for rey.....I fail to see anything where he's worthy of being the big bad.
I'm not saying, nor was I saying, that Snoke would be back - just that it would be more compelling than trying to make Kylo the big bad. Maybe there's someone else who's the big bad. The capping off of 9 flicks should not be killing off the family that the whole thing was essentially about.
That said, being kylo's story is the problem frankly. There's nothing compelling left for him frankly unless 9 is another 3 and the bad guys win. Rey already took him down once, he's not compelling as the big bad (though is/could be as a redemption), he's a hot head nutjob who anyone with a brain wouldn't follow.
They could do a multi year break and then say he's now a bad ass leader, but it wouldn't be right. It's not earned. Killing the big bad does not equal being worthy of being the new big bad. What we've seen is on screen is, in TFA, faced no one really until rey. Rey got the better of him in the interrogation and in the saber fight. He had jack to do with blowing up the planets - he was just on the base when it happened. In TLJ, Snoke played him like a puppet to get to Rey. He got fed up and killed snoke, and seemingly would have gotten taken down by the guards if not for rey.....I fail to see anything where he's worthy of being the big bad.
I'm not saying, nor was I saying, that Snoke would be back - just that it would be more compelling than trying to make Kylo the big bad. Maybe there's someone else who's the big bad. The capping off of 9 flicks should not be killing off the family that the whole thing was essentially about.
Raised the issue? No, just reported some current news without editorializing. Kylo Ren is JJ's construct and Rian has served up a rich meal for him to enjoy.
CT1138
Sr Member
These days, it's whatever the studio projects it to make back. Be that half the budget, double the budget, quadruple the budget. I recall reading that Disney considered Age of Ultron a failure because it didn't make what the studio projected it to.
They had already established that in ROTJ when Obi Wan, as a force ghost, sat on a log.
Keycube
Well-Known Member
Honestly, did you actually type that with a straight face?
Yes, it's art and about interpretation and all that. But I gotta say, going cold into TLJ, I was literally open to pretty much anything (yes, I would be proven wrong about that), as long as they didn't mess with my beloved Ben.
Where hath my bombastic, troubled boy gone. The vulnerable young man so insecure that he - with so much power at his disposal - actually recoiled when his own father got too close to him. My confused lad with the sensitive soul, who, giving his father every opportunity to pass his final exam - after so many years apart - received only dismissive comments, awkward attempts to reach out emotionally, and the final failure - that of refusing to throw Ben's iconic symbol of corruption - his saber - into the abyss below, and give his emotionally disturbed son the hug he has so desperately needed for so long.
For 2 years I KNEW Ben Solo. Easily my favorite Star Wars character ever, possessing all of the the complexity, relatability, and vulnerability of a proper villain. I cried at the catwalk scene the first four times I saw it; not for Han, but for this young man, brimming with internal turmoil. I mean, I loved this character in an almost unhealthy way.
And now...the humiliation at the hands of Snoke leading to the first step off the deep end...okay, I can live with the idea, even if the scene was ham-fisted, rushed, and unconvincing. I really thought when he jumped in his ship - okay, now we're getting somewhere, even though I'd like to see a bit more of that passion - and arrives at, Leia...mom...a major turning point, surely? You could feel his inner conflict in TFA as he watched the SKB plasma blast tear through the sky from the bridge, likely wondering what his mother's fate was. And now, with the memory of his father surely a cross to bear despite the weight of Kylo Ren attempting to crush it, he faces a similar life-changing dilemma with his mother...
My Ben died right after this, though only because I was merely hoping against hope with this sh*tshow to this point. His moment of hesitation - and the subsequent firing upon her ship by his wingmen - carried all the emotional weight of...something that carries no emotional weight. Damn did this movie turn south right here. Damn Damn. Damn.
And do we know if Ben knows that Leia is still alive? Sure, he should "sense" it, but is that something he would have to "reach out" to do? Or has he just shut it all down as part of his "killing the past" or whatever his philosophy is now? God, the narrative with his mother could have been special, and was handled so poorly. Anyway, If I'm forced to acknowledge this movie's existence at certain times, that's how I'm spinning Ben at this point - that beginning with his father's death, being humiliated by Rey in the saber battle in TFA, the further humiliation he endures from Snoke, and culminating in the moment with Leia, he has walls up to the point where he is emotionally dead, and it's made him cold to the point where he's sent the pain so far below, he's literally a different person, with no emotional resonance. And I hate it.
I just want my Ben back. JJ, please make it so.
sztriki
Sr Member
Other than looking dumb (I never liked that scene, Guinness was so phoning it in, probably couldn’t even be bothered to stand) this scene had no other implication on the physical world. It’s one thing looking like a ghost sitting down and hitting living things on the head with a stick and calling down force lightning.
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Mr Webber
Master Member
Honestly, did you actually type that with a straight face?
Politicians are green with envy. :lol
Honestly, did you actually type that with a straight face?
Yes, it's art and about interpretation and all that. But I gotta say, going cold into TLJ, I was literally open to pretty much anything (yes, I would be proven wrong about that), as long as they didn't mess with my beloved Ben.
Where hath my bombastic, troubled boy gone. The vulnerable young man so insecure that he - with so much power at his disposal - actually recoiled when his own father got too close to him. My confused lad with the sensitive soul, who, giving his father every opportunity to pass his final exam - after so many years apart - received only dismissive comments, awkward attempts to reach out emotionally, and the final failure - that of refusing to throw Ben's iconic symbol of corruption - his saber - into the abyss below, and give his emotionally disturbed son the hug he has so desperately needed for so long.
For 2 years I KNEW Ben Solo. Easily my favorite Star Wars character ever, possessing all of the the complexity, relatability, and vulnerability of a proper villain. I cried at the catwalk scene the first four times I saw it; not for Han, but for this young man, brimming with internal turmoil. I mean, I loved this character in an almost unhealthy way.
And now...the humiliation at the hands of Snoke leading to the first step off the deep end...okay, I can live with the idea, even if the scene was ham-fisted, rushed, and unconvincing. I really thought when he jumped in his ship - okay, now we're getting somewhere, even though I'd like to see a bit more of that passion - and arrives at, Leia...mom...a major turning point, surely? You could feel his inner conflict in TFA as he watched the SKB plasma blast tear through the sky from the bridge, likely wondering what his mother's fate was. And now, with the memory of his father surely a cross to bear despite the weight of Kylo Ren attempting to crush it, he faces a similar life-changing dilemma with his mother...
My Ben died right after this, though only because I was merely hoping against hope with this sh*tshow to this point. His moment of hesitation - and the subsequent firing upon her ship by his wingmen - carried all the emotional weight of...something that carries no emotional weight. Damn did this movie turn south right here. Damn Damn. Damn.
And do we know if Ben knows that Leia is still alive? Sure, he should "sense" it, but is that something he would have to "reach out" to do? Or has he just shut it all down as part of his "killing the past" or whatever his philosophy is now? God, the narrative with his mother could have been special, and was handled so poorly. Anyway, If I'm forced to acknowledge this movie's existence at certain times, that's how I'm spinning Ben at this point - that beginning with his father's death, being humiliated by Rey in the saber battle in TFA, the further humiliation he endures from Snoke, and culminating in the moment with Leia, he has walls up to the point where he is emotionally dead, and it's made him cold to the point where he's sent the pain so far below, he's literally a different person, with no emotional resonance. And I hate it.
I just want my Ben back. JJ, please make it so.
And yet it’s a Kylo Ren mask and saber my son plays with and Kylo costumes outnumbered Vader 10:1 on Halloween. I think it’s fair to say the character has been well established in the pop culture zeitgeist and I appreciate as an adult fan that he’s not a mimic of Vader and is tragically flawed and having to struggle as much as he does with his conflict.
sztriki
Sr Member
That's pretty ironic considering that the first thing Kylo Ren does in the new movie is smash his helmet up. So the imagery at least that has sold so much is from TFA really.
Again, which is an interesting choice. It will be interesting to see a few things. Can an unmasked SW villian maintain the same mystique? His lightsaber will always be a winner but will kids still find him as intimidating without the helmet? I think for adults it’s much more compelling seeing his face and allowing for a true actor performance. We have 2 years to see and find out.
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