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  1. RPF Premium Member phase pistol's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2016, 3:30 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #101

    A trove of pics! Thanks so much!

    Jason, congratulations! I was rooting for you, but I'm glad the restoration is in capable hands.
  2. Choosy moms choose Jif™ RPF Premium Member moffeaton's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2016, 4:49 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #102

    Yeah, and the heat is off

    No "Miarecki 2.0" for me
  3. RPF Premium Member CessnaDriver's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2016, 5:07 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #103

    It's funny disassembled with people standing next to the parts she looks smaller than I remember when on display.
  4. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2016, 11:19 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #104

    You're welcome.

    That's Ariel O'Connor, co-conservator of the project, explaining that the Hallmark ornament is very close to the right scale for the 11' Enterprise. Whooda thunkit?

    Here she is:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    CessnaDriver said: View Post
    Thanks for those!
    Downloaded the whole album.
    Was that woman holding a Hallmark Galileo to demonstrate the hanger deck? LOL
    - - - Updated - - -

    Not sure what part you're referring to. But if it's broken, they will fix it, or at least stabilize it.

    Commander Max said: View Post
    What was the word on the accelerator? Are they going to fix it?
    Last edited by asalaw; Feb 1, 2016 at 11:27 PM.
  5. Member Since
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    Feb 1, 2016, 11:35 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #105

    asalaw said: View Post
    Not sure what part you're referring to. But if it's broken, they will fix it, or at least stabilize it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here you go, this is a pic I made. For a previous thread.
    It shows the part was modified in the last restoration.
  6. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 1, 2016, 11:46 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #106

    Interesting. I didn't know that, so I didn't ask. But if that "before" image reflects what that part looked like in August of 1967, I'd say there's a good chance they'll fix it. On the other hand, their watchword is reversibility. Meaning they work so that nothing is removed, only layered over so that it's theoretically "reversible." So it's hard to say. They didn't go into how they apply that in every instance, such as a repair to an original part.

    Incidentally, the bottom part is shaped wood, and the rectangular rod on top is machined plexi.
    Last edited by asalaw; Feb 1, 2016 at 11:53 PM.
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    Feb 2, 2016, 12:25 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #107

    asalaw said: View Post
    Interesting. I didn't know that, so I didn't ask. But if that "before" image reflects what that part looked like in August of 1967, I'd say there's a good chance they'll fix it. On the other hand, their watchword is reversibility. Meaning they work so that nothing is removed, only layered over so that it's theoretically "reversible." So it's hard to say. They didn't go into how they apply that in every instance, such as a repair to an original part.

    Incidentally, the bottom part is shaped wood, and the rectangular rod on top is machined plexi.
    The before image was cropped from a hi-rez image of the E. Taken around the time of production. Even the Kerr drawings reflect the same thing.
    I wouldn't be surprised if my image is in their archive. I was surprised to see where it showed up in a google search.
  8. robn1's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 12:38 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #108

  9. RPF Premium Member CessnaDriver's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 1:50 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #109

    Well that confirms more pics exist from the school exhibition back in the day. I"m guessin' we won't get to see them though.
    Boo!
  10. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 9:51 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #110

    CessnaDriver said: View Post
    Well that confirms more pics exist from the school exhibition back in the day. I"m guessin' we won't get to see them though.
    Boo!
    They emphasized the enormous volume of period photos they have in their possession, most of which they can't share because their respective owners won't allow it.

    Among many other things, they've established definitively that Ed Miarecki's restoration used the correct colors and weathering patterns, just too heavy and too dark. They have a lot of B&W reference for the original weathering patterns, and they've nailed the colors with microscopy of the paint layers.

    The reason EM's paint job came out too heavy and dark is that his color references were mostly faded Lincoln Enterprise workprint trims.

    Sorry for digressing, but I'm over 50 and that's only gonna get worse. Point is, if the photo exists, yeah, they have it.
  11. RPF Premium Member CessnaDriver's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 2:02 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #111

    I know there are rights issues intellectually, emotionally it's incredibly frustrating. I don't think I could sit on pictures like that and not share something.
    So ultimately we will have this final restoration that should be as humanly close to her glory days and that should be as good as any vintage picture.
    Last edited by CessnaDriver; Feb 2, 2016 at 5:41 PM.
  12. Treadwell's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 5:16 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #112

    Yeah, I was surprised by the confirmation of the Ed weathering. There really were panel lines along the nacelles, for example?
  13. RPF Premium Member CessnaDriver's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 5:46 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #113

    Treadwell said: View Post
    Yeah, I was surprised by the confirmation of the Ed weathering. There really were panel lines along the nacelles, for example?
    Honestly, I think she was being political and kind because it's a bit of a third rail. It's not like we have never seen any reference pictures.
    Whatever though, it's long over and I know things are going to be as best as possible now, the model was long overdue either way for restoration.
  14. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 7:02 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #114

    CessnaDriver said: View Post
    Honestly, I think she was being political and kind because it's a bit of a third rail. It's not like we have never seen any reference pictures.
    Whatever though, it's long over and I know things are going to be as best as possible now, the model was long overdue either way for restoration.
    With all due respect, that's just not the case. Ariel O'Connor was very explicit and very detailed in her explanation (to me) of the weathering, her description of what their photographic sources show, and how EM's paint job got too dark and too green. She was very specific about the B&W photos clearly showing that all of EM's weathering patterns were correctly painted. That's not at all indicative of politics or kindness, but rather an academic expert's appraisal of her source material and scientific analysis of the model. I'm a lawyer, I have a lot of training and experience in judging credibility and parsing testimony, and I'm confident she was being candid and thorough.

    I know it's hard to wrap your head around it, and I sympathize, but EM actually got it pretty close to the mark.
  15. robn1's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 7:26 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #115

    There is no way those dark grid lines were originally on the secondary hull and nacelles. The saucer pencil lines are actually visible on screen in some shots, but the EM lines would have been obvious. Even EM's own pics of the disassembled ship during renovation show no evidence of them.

    The weathering streaks are another matter. They are present on the unaltered saucer and were on the rest of the ship as well, just not always apparent on screen.

    ETA: dummy here seems to have forgotten that the ship was repainted in '74, so obviously nothing would show in '91. But clearly the lines were not there in the original version.
    Last edited by robn1; Feb 2, 2016 at 8:05 PM.
  16. RPF Premium Member CessnaDriver's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 7:34 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #116

    asalaw said: View Post
    With all due respect, that's just not the case. Ariel O'Connor was very explicit and very detailed in her explanation (to me) of the weathering, her description of what their photographic sources show, and how EM's paint job got too dark and too green. She was very specific about the B&W photos clearly showing that all of EM's weathering patterns were correctly painted. That's not at all indicative of politics or kindness, but rather an academic expert's appraisal of her source material and scientific analysis of the model. I'm a lawyer, I have a lot of training and experience in judging credibility and parsing testimony, and I'm confident she was being candid and thorough.

    I know it's hard to wrap your head around it, and I sympathize, but EM actually got it pretty close to the mark.
    I'll eat a bug if the final resto is reminiscent of the last one. Weathering patterns may be so, but I have not seen evidence myself
    of say the underside of the saucer so massively shaded. Never have a seen anything like that before. It was a brutal interpretation to my eye, whatever the reasons and fine if he was justified at the time wiith whatever they were looking at. Nobody has shared it yet.. Just going by the top of the saucer as a guide which we know was left alone. Would it not reason that the bottom have been similar?
  17. RPF Premium Member CessnaDriver's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 7:39 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #117








    I mean look at some of those grid shadings from the last resto? They are just as dark as the landing pad triangle thingys.
    IF they were there then, they should be showing up on screen.
    Last edited by CessnaDriver; Feb 2, 2016 at 10:17 PM.
  18. greatwazoo42's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 7:46 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #118

    If I recall correctly the triangle thingies had been intended as landing gear until they realized how expensive and damned near impossible it was to film the ship landing. Thus, shuttle craft...except the models weren't going to be ready in time...therefore...transporters.
  19. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 7:51 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #119

    CessnaDriver said: View Post
    I'll eat a bug if the final resto is reminiscent of the last one. Weathering patterns may be so, but I have not seen evidence myself
    of say the underside of the saucer so massively shaded. Never have a seen anything like that before. It was a brutal interpretation to my eye, whatever the reasons and fine if he was justified at the time wiith whatever they were looking at. Nobody has shared it yet.. Just going by the top of the saucer as a guide which we know was left alone. Would it not reason that the bottom have been similar?
    YES!! That's EXACTLY what they're saying. The lines on the saucer bottom were there, but not nearly as heavy as EM did them. They were lightly pencilled like on the top.

    EM just didn't have access to the huge volume of period photos they have now, nor the scientific tools. The Lincoln Enterprises clips he did have were faded and dye-shifted. He made a good guess based on what he had, but made it much too intense.
  20. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 2, 2016, 9:15 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #120

    robn1 said: View Post
    There is no way those dark grid lines were originally on the secondary hull and nacelles. The saucer pencil lines are actually visible on screen in some shots, but the EM lines would have been obvious. Even EM's own pics of the disassembled ship during renovation show no evidence of them.

    The weathering streaks are another matter. They are present on the unaltered saucer and were on the rest of the ship as well, just not always apparent on screen.

    ETA: dummy here seems to have forgotten that the ship was repainted in '74, so obviously nothing would show in '91. But clearly the lines were not there in the original version.
    You haven't seen more than 1% (max) of the existing period photos. They have them all. Just one example: the 1964 rollout photo on the street with the builders. One photo makes the rounds, and we've all seen it. NASM has the entire roll.
  21. Member Since
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    Feb 3, 2016, 1:24 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #121

    What she said sounded like politics to me as well. Imagine the fallout if she said the last guy botched the job. These people work for the government after all.
    Ed did go overboard with his restoration as a lot of us had discussed in past threads. When the guy is modifying original parts, he would do a lot more to the model.
    The lines Ed put on the hull and nacelles, are not in the Kerr drawings. Those drawings reflect the model when Kerr got to see it up close. That was around the time of the last restoration.
    Asalaw I would suggest you go back and read those threads. We went into this in a lot of detail.

    The saucer was the the only part of the model that had the grid. The only reason it does was to shut Roddenberry up. Jefferies wanted the model clean, as he later noted you can't see the plates on a battleship at a distance. The model was delivered to the studio clean, no weathering or gridlines. Roddenberry insisted it have all that stuff put on the model.

    Just an aside Jefferies interpretation of the Big E was ahead of everybody. A ship like that wouldn't have any grids or weathering. The reasons for that are not worth going into here.
  22. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 3, 2016, 8:20 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #122

    When did Gary Kerr release his drawings? Did he have the other weathering on them? Also, don't forget the model was painted over in 1984, before Kerr ever got to see it, and the appearance of the model in the 1960s and at that 1972 convention has only been verified in the last year or so of NASM's research. Ariel O'Connor was pretty insistent that the lines were all there.

    And most importantly, we're all just armchair quarterbacking here. They have vastly better information than we've ever had access to. They're in a much better position to know than we are. I'm inclined to take them at their word, especially since I had a chance to speak to them personally and ask very specific questions. There was only one "stump the band" moment with O'Connor, and that was when I asked whether the hole on the port side had ever been used for a pipe stand, since it has what appear to be keyway slots. All she could say was none of their imagery showed that, and that it was definitely used as a wiring exit.

    Everything else about the model she knew in very deep detail.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's the article by Popular Mechanics about the open house.
    Last edited by asalaw; Feb 3, 2016 at 8:42 PM.
  23. Member Since
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    Feb 3, 2016, 11:25 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #123

    asalaw said: View Post
    When did Gary Kerr release his drawings? .
    He never did, it takes a lot of effort. You have to show that your serious. Plus having a really popular thread in the studio scale model section.
    And it helps to have friends, which I do. But if you ask for the drawings you will never get anywhere. I will never show them, that's part of the deal.

    But you have to keep in mind, there is a lot known about the Big E. Detailed pics of the last restoration have been around for years.
    Plus there have been at least 2 good 66" kits put out of the miniature. One 350 scale kit, one 350 scale completed model, one 1000 scale model, and a variety of toys and other trinkets. All based on the same Kerr drawings(I forgot the SSM of the Big E used in DS9, it was from the Kerr drawings as well).

    So far I haven't really seen anything new. Except for the x-rays and a few interior pics. For recreating the miniature it's not that important.

    Like I said, look around here.
    This board is dedicated to props, researching these things is what we do.
  24. Member Since
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    Feb 4, 2016, 8:02 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #124

    Of all the pictures i have, i do not have a pic of the dorsal from the top. did any one get one at the open house? i know that they said they are going to try and post what pictures they can at some time, but if any one has such a picture i would be forever grateful to see it. thanks
  25. Shaw's Avatar
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    Feb 4, 2016, 10:05 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #125

    asalaw said: View Post
    There was only one "stump the band" moment with O'Connor, and that was when I asked whether the hole on the port side had ever been used for a pipe stand, since it has what appear to be keyway slots. All she could say was none of their imagery showed that, and that it was definitely used as a wiring exit.
    The hole was design to fit a transformer like this one... but I'm just armchair quarterbacking here.

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