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  1. Member Since
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    Feb 3, 2015, 9:26 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #51

    That's a fair amount of weathering, IMHO. No, it doesn't have stark gridlines on the hull, but it's certainly not a smooth gray. In other words it looks a lot like the top of the saucer.
  2. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 3, 2015, 9:28 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #52

    I remember that shot. Cool!


    Hey guys, I added a link to the main post -- The article from American Cinematographer, October 1967, "Out-of-this-World Special Effects for Star Trek.'" By Howard Anderson, Linwood Dunn, and Joseph Westheimer. Very interesting reading!

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2o...ew?usp=sharing

    I got it via e-mail from the Library of Congress. They kindly scanned the article for me and sent me the files, and I combined them into a single PDF in Photoshop and Acrobat. The lineup isn't perfect, owing to the binding of the magazine, but it's perfectly readable. Should be searchable too, since I ran OCR in Acrobat.

    Please let me know if you have any issues opening or downloading.

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by asalaw; Feb 3, 2015 at 9:47 AM.
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    Feb 3, 2015, 11:48 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #53

    spockboy said: View Post
    I think this is a good shot. It isn't restored, and the ship isn't under production lights.
    I said in another thread if Mr. Thompson could be contacted perhaps he has several more shots that could be properly scanned to help the committee see it's true appearance before any restorations.
    Attachment 434471
    Attachment 434470

    Spockboy
    I think he said that was all he had.
    I am convinced that there is no way there are not more pictures though.
    Surely someone took some, sitting in some shoe box forgotten or sadly thrown out over the decades.
    Or maybe they are kept non-public. Seems pictures of high quality get held closely and guarded.
  4. TheDuc's Avatar
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    Feb 3, 2015, 2:00 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #54

    I hate to ask this, but has anyone here ever emailed/spoken to Mr Thompson directly? I have always loved the classroom pictures, and I have always wondered how cool that must have been.
  5. Member Since
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    Feb 3, 2015, 8:04 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #55

    My good friend Rick Kelvington sent me an interesting email.
    I think he has the perfect idea for the display...and other things

    OK so this is broken down into several areas.


    1. The original model
    2. Displaying the Enterprise
    3. Star Trek TOS/Remastered
    4. Future remastering

    1. The original model

    I think, we have to make the original model look as close as possible to how it looked when it was first filmed. Forget the drooping bit on the saucer under section and other things that occurred when the hot lights effected it. You want the model to look as close to its delivery day as possible. This is THAT moment in time, when it was delivered and given to Anderson & Co. to shoot. All things being equal I would have it with it's blue base and a mannequin holding a clip board near it. That's THE Enterprise, filming day one. We need to preserve the original model in that fashion, in that moment in time. So that every fan of Trek TOS can still see her just as she was, the day she arrived. In my mind that is of paramount importance. People need to see how it was filmed, how great she looked, even before she hit 4x3 film. It's history, we don't add jet engines to the Spirit of St. Louis, we don't add skin to dinosaur bones we find. We display them AS they were, and are. We should endeavor to keep her the same. That said...

    2. Displaying the Enterprise

    With advancements in laser-scanning, 3D printing and what not, we should be able to replica the original model so closely, and then make it better, so after you walk through the first half of the exhibit with the original filming model, near the end you get to see her imagined version, completed port side, perfect paint job, LED lights, and have her move, it wouldn't have to move much, but move enough in front of a star field (even a projected one) to give you a sense of what she is, and how she would look in space. Have her go up and down or encircle the room, so you can see this perfect one, with all it's amazing angels and mass. This is the Enterprise you see in your mind, this is the Enterprise you dream about. She deserves that much.

    3. Star Trek TOS/Remastered

    Every known and unknown copy of the remastered episodes should be rounded up, like the Star Wars Holiday Special and destroyed, all those who were involved with the project, particularly the CGI team, should be put into an agony booth and left there for a period of time lasting no more than 80 hours but no fewer than 79. After that point a new team should be put together to find as much of the original footage that possibly exists and have it scanned, cleaned, and readied for assembly. TOS should be given the whole TNG treatment. But in place of CGI, get the updated model and shoot all the same shots as the original, not one frame more, or less. Recreate models from the series, in their original scales, and re-shoot them, using the multi-pass techniques that were developed on TNG and DS9. Create a perfect replica, shot for shot of the original series, but with cleaned up model/blue screen shots. These redone episodes will become the NEW master episodes, maintaining the look and feel of the originals, but merely cleaned up. No extra bull****, nothing that didn't exist before 1970. The golden masters as it were.

    4. Future remastering

    Once the techniques exist to roto people EASILY out of shots, and every scene is roto from every episode, you can update the interior look of the Enterprise "a bit" you can use computers to extend the shots into 16x9, and ILM who will be virtually put out of business by the lack of Star Wars like movies to create, will spend ten million man hours to create prefect CGI replicas of the ships and planets of the original series. Then and only then, can you monkey around with the original series. Only so long as the versions created in part 3 still exist and are easily available on everyone's phone, or TV, or eye implant, what ever is around at the time. CBS-D got it totally wrong, they took something that didn't need fixing, and fixed it. TOS only needed cleaning and a bit of patching to be great... because it was ALREADY great, it filled the imaginations and minds of children and adults from day one. I didn't need fancy effects only cleaned up ones. It didn't need new phaser shots, or better transporter effects, or anything. It needed touched up, not felt up. It was a classic before, only the cob webs needed removed to make it a classic again.
    The Enterprise I saw all those years ago, with its red nacelles, and it's unfinished side, made my heart skip a beat, it wasn't because it was made of plastic and wood, and some lights, it was because, something that lived in my mind as vividly as any memory, was within my grasp. And every person I saw who looked up at her, felt exactly the same way.

    -Rick kelvington

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by spockboy; Feb 4, 2015 at 10:08 PM.
  6. Member Since
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    Feb 3, 2015, 10:01 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #56

    asalaw said: View Post
    I remember that shot. Cool!


    Hey guys, I added a link to the main post -- The article from American Cinematographer, October 1967, "Out-of-this-World Special Effects for Star Trek.'" By Howard Anderson, Linwood Dunn, and Joseph Westheimer. Very interesting reading!

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2o...ew?usp=sharing

    I got it via e-mail from the Library of Congress. They kindly scanned the article for me and sent me the files, and I combined them into a single PDF in Photoshop and Acrobat. The lineup isn't perfect, owing to the binding of the magazine, but it's perfectly readable. Should be searchable too, since I ran OCR in Acrobat.

    Please let me know if you have any issues opening or downloading.

    Enjoy!
    Thanks for the article.
    Great stuff!

    Spockboy
  7. TheDuc's Avatar
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    Feb 5, 2015, 11:41 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #57

    Hey Spockboy, a huge BRAVO to the Rick Kelvington email, and again "You Guys" really rule.
  8. RPF Premium Member BrianM's Avatar
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    Feb 5, 2015, 3:57 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #58

    I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the Rick Kelvington email on almost every point.

    1. The original model
    I think, we have to make the original model look as close as possible to how it looked when it was first filmed.
    WHAT? You would have them tear off the bridge, the domes at the back of the nacelles, and replace them with reproductions? You would ask that the only original paint be sanded off the dish so it can be painted battleship grey and the font only seen in the pilot be reapplied. The nicely made repo bussard collectors tossed out and replaced with orange wood balls? In my opinion this would be worse than what EM did.


    2. Displaying the Enterprise

    With advancements in laser-scanning, 3D printing and what not, we should be able to replica the original model so closely, and then make it better, so after you walk through the first half of the exhibit with the original filming model, near the end you get to see her imagined version, completed port side, perfect paint job, LED lights, and have her move, it wouldn't have to move much, but move enough in front of a star field (even a projected one) to give you a sense of what she is, and how she would look in space. Have her go up and down or encircle the room, so you can see this perfect one, with all it's amazing angels and mass. This is the Enterprise you see in your mind, this is the Enterprise you dream about. She deserves that much.
    No, she doesn't. Maybe if this were a Star Trek Museum., but it's the National Air And Space milestones of flight hall. 1701 will be between The Bell X-1 and friggen Apollo 11. These ships carried death defying heroes to the edge and back for science. I love the Big E as much as the next FanBoy, but it was a TV show. We should hit our knee's and thank the Great Bird of the Galaxy, it's not falling apart in the gift shop.

    3. Star Trek TOS/Remastered
    Every known and unknown copy of the remastered episodes should be rounded up, like the Star Wars Holiday Special and destroyed, all those who were involved with the project, particularly the CGI team, should be put into an agony booth and left there for a period of time lasting no more than 80 hours but no fewer than 79. After that point a new team should be put together to find as much of the original footage that possibly exists and have it scanned, cleaned, and readied for assembly. TOS should be given the whole TNG treatment. But in place of CGI, get the updated model and shoot all the same shots as the original, not one frame more, or less. Recreate models from the series, in their original scales, and re-shoot them, using the multi-pass techniques that were developed on TNG and DS9. Create a perfect replica, shot for shot of the original series, but with cleaned up model/blue screen shots. These redone episodes will become the NEW master episodes, maintaining the look and feel of the originals, but merely cleaned up. No extra bull****, nothing that didn't exist before 1970. The golden masters as it were.
    Again I have to disagree. The TOS BluRay's were handled perfectly. If George had done the same thing with Star Wars 4-6 his hate level would be 50% what it is now. (he did give us 1-3 so it can't be zero) The TOS 35mm films were scanned and presented in HD in the original aspect ratio on the BR. THEN they added the new Special effects and commentary. Keep in mind that most of the executives making the decisions are not old enough to remember even the 70's much less Trek's first run. Most younger viewers wont watch a B&W show, or even one that is not in widescreen. A disk set like you describe would have never made it past the pitch meeting. Lost in Space just went though this. Sheila Allen had to put up all the money to get a remastered LIS in the original format. In fact there would not even be a "Next Gen treatment" had it not been for the success of the remastered new effected TOS set. Having said that, if they could go back to all the original negatives and recomposite all the pieces (if they still exist), I'd buy one. Me and about 100 other people over 40, which is why they will never do it.

    4. Future remastering
    Once the techniques exist to roto people EASILY out of shots, and every scene is roto from every episode, you can update the interior look of the Enterprise "a bit" you can use computers to extend the shots into 16x9, and ILM who will be virtually put out of business by the lack of Star Wars like movies to create, will spend ten million man hours to create prefect CGI replicas of the ships and planets of the original series. Then and only then, can you monkey around with the original series. Only so long as the versions created in part 3 still exist and are easily available on everyone's phone, or TV, or eye implant, what ever is around at the time. CBS-D got it totally wrong, they took something that didn't need fixing, and fixed it. TOS only needed cleaning and a bit of patching to be great... because it was ALREADY great, it filled the imaginations and minds of children and adults from day one. I didn't need fancy effects only cleaned up ones. It didn't need new phaser shots, or better transporter effects, or anything. It needed touched up, not felt up. It was a classic before, only the cob webs needed removed to make it a classic again.
    The Enterprise I saw all those years ago, with its red nacelles, and it's unfinished side, made my heart skip a beat, it wasn't because it was made of plastic and wood, and some lights, it was because, something that lived in my mind as vividly as any memory, was within my grasp. And every person I saw who looked up at her, felt exactly the same way.
    Now you're being silly. Us folks who remember the original show are not the target audience. Again CBS did this just right. If you want the original show in NTSC? The DVD's are out there to watch. That's what I watch. But the only way to get new scanned prints was to update as well for the over 25 - 40 folks. Star Trek is still a business to the guys who run Paramount and CBS and no amount of wishing from us is going to change that. If re-rendering the entire show for a 15 year old's eye implant will help the show live on, go for it. It. I still have my Low Res DVD's.

    BrianM
  9. Member Since
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    Feb 5, 2015, 4:06 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #59

    BrianM said: View Post
    I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the Rick Kelvington email on almost every point.
    Hear hear!

    I will also point out that although I’m personally not a fan of the Remastered space ship shots I consider a lot of what they did with the live action backgrounds to be a wonder. (Mendez’s office in The Menagerie is terrific.) And I can say that because if I didn’t like them I can watch my originals in HD! (AND the original cut of Where No Man Has Gone Before!)
  10. greatwazoo42's Avatar
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    Feb 5, 2015, 4:11 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #60

    Last I heard all the remastered shots came from the original shooting scripts and merely completed the s f/x shots that were originally intended.
  11. RPF Premium Member CessnaDriver's Avatar
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    Feb 5, 2015, 4:11 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #61

    I don't hate on the remastered stuff. I didn't agree with everytning they did. It was fun to see some things they probably would have preferred us to see if they had the time, money, technology.
    And the originals are always there. They didn't change the story or anything.
    This is my desktop at work for now too...

  12. greatwazoo42's Avatar
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    Feb 5, 2015, 6:39 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #62

    No matter how many years pass the sight of the original Big E will always give me a nice little thrill to the imagination gland.
  13. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2015, 8:23 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #63

    I love the remastered Blu-rays. When I first bought Season 1, I immediately watched an episode with the original effects shots, and I was absolutely mortified. Obviously those shots were never intended for that level of scrutiny. So ever since, for the most part, I've only watched the remastered versions.

    I think the new VFX make the show much more watchable, and the they often serve the story better. With the old shots, your imagination often had to fill in the gaps because they couldn't show you exactly what was happening. Good examples of this are The Ultimate Computer and Doomsday Machine; if you watch the new and old versions side-by-side, IMO the remastered FX give you better and clearer action and do a better job keeping the suspense going.

    But if you're a glutton for punishment, just watch the Blu-ray versions with the original VFX shots, or the DVDs as Brian does (which don't advertise the flaws the way the HD versions do).

    Regarding the model, the saucer paint is definitely going to be left as-is, except for maybe some sort of treatment to stabilize it and slow down the deterioration. It's the only original paint left on the model, so taking it off would border on vandalism. Everything else is going to be repainted, since the EM restoration took off all the old paint anyway. IIRC, Dr. Weitekamp said in her presentation that EM did that according to instructions from NASM, which was consistent with normal practice at the time.

    As for removing other original parts for whatever reason and replacing them with reproductions -- are you serious? That has to be the worst idea I've ever heard.
  14. Member Since
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    Feb 12, 2015, 1:29 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #64

    ALL NEW pictures and videos of the current restoration from Trekcore.
    http://trekcore.com/blog/2015/02/ent...-photos-video/

    ENJOY.

    Spockboy
  15. Member Since
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    Feb 12, 2015, 3:03 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #65

    Very nice. Thank you SB.
  16. RonH's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2015, 3:13 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #66

    Here's a photo I found online and have never seen anywhere else. No idea who the woman is but the picture looks to be when the model was uncrated at the NASM. Maybe the only color photo showing the nacelles without domes.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	16348863599_c8f7799796_b.jpg 
Views:	337 
Size:	553.6 KB 
ID:	439177
    Last edited by RonH; Feb 15, 2015 at 3:43 AM.
  17. feek61's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2015, 8:00 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #67

    Great photo; too bad it's not higher res. It's always interested me that the bridge dome was present during the uncrating but was missing when it was originally dispalyed. There is a close-up color photo of the nacelle ends that I've seen someplace. Will try to dig it up.
  18. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2015, 9:11 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #68

    Thanks, guys! I'll be posting to my phaser thread tomorrow, so while I'm doing that I'll look into setting up a gallery somewhere than anybody can upload to, and linking to that in the top post. That way people won't have to go scrolling through the whole thread to find all the photos. Meanwhile, keep on posting!
  19. TheDuc's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2015, 10:56 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #69

    It's been said here that there might be some other pictures that can not be shown. At this point in time why would there be any privacy issues with anything that has to do with the Enterprise. This "new" old picture is wonderful and great to see, thank you.
  20. RonH's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2015, 3:05 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #70

    Very welcome. The picture had that dithering when I found it, and I wish it was higher res as well. If I remember correctly, I was doing image searches with a number of more obscure search engines and happened on that pic. So there may be more.

    In fact, that lady was young so she may well still be at the NASM, the Garber Facility, or the Smithsonian in general. If she could be identified and found, she would certainly know who took the picture, which may lead to more and better photos.

    Anybody near DC ?
    Last edited by RonH; Feb 15, 2015 at 3:47 PM.
  21. feek61's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2015, 3:57 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #71

    RonH said: View Post
    Here's a photo I found online and have never seen anywhere else. No idea who the woman is but the picture looks to be when the model was uncrated at the NASM. Maybe the only color photo showing the nacelles without domes.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	16348863599_c8f7799796_b.jpg 
Views:	337 
Size:	553.6 KB 
ID:	439177

    It's interesting that even in that photo of presumably the original paint; the top of the saucer appears a different color than the rest of the ship.
  22. RPF Premium Member CessnaDriver's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2015, 4:11 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #72

    feek61 said: View Post
    It's interesting that even in that photo of presumably the original paint; the top of the saucer appears a different color than the rest of the ship.
    Yeah, first thing I noticed.
  23. Shaw's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2015, 7:21 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #73

    RonH said: View Post
    Here's a photo I found online and have never seen anywhere else. No idea who the woman is but the picture looks to be when the model was uncrated at the NASM. Maybe the only color photo showing the nacelles without domes.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	16348863599_c8f7799796_b.jpg 
Views:	337 
Size:	553.6 KB 
ID:	439177
    This is one of the best publicly available images that shows the care and level of detail that the original builders of the Enterprise took in painting on some of the features. In that shot the inboard details of the starboard nacelle are all painted on (other than the intercooler and grill) rather than being physical features. If you look at shots of the model after it went on display you'll see that all of those details were painted over... and in 1991 it was replaced with a featureless gray field.

    This is one of the features I am hoping gets fixed with this restoration.

    TheDuc said: View Post
    It's been said here that there might be some other pictures that can not be shown. At this point in time why would there be any privacy issues with anything that has to do with the Enterprise.
    Actually, it comes down to some photos from people's private collections that haven't been released publicly. And often times when they are shared with others, it is with the express instructions not to make them public or share them with others without permission.

    I can share any information I gain from analysis of the photos, just not the photos themselves.

    If I were to make public all the photos shared with me, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get many people willing to share other things with me in the future.
  24. RPF Premium Member asalaw's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2015, 10:57 AM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #74

    TheDuc said: View Post
    At this point in time why would there be any privacy issues with anything that has to do with the Enterprise. This "new" old picture is wonderful and great to see, thank you.
    It has nothing to do with the Enterprise, but everything to do with the owners of the photos, and/or the people in them. Anyone has the right to refuse to distribute their own photos for any reason. It's not only a general privacy right, but a statutory right under copyright law.

    Shaw said: View Post
    Actually, it comes down to some photos from people's private collections that haven't been released publicly.

    If I were to make public all the photos shared with me, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get many people willing to share other things with me in the future.
    And this is why non-owners in possession of such photographs don't share them -- if you don't keep your word, pretty soon you'll have no need to.
  25. RPF Premium Member TimeyWimey's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2015, 7:24 PM - Re: One-Stop 11' TOS Enterprise Reference Thread: NCC-1701, No Bloody A... #75

    There's a photo I've never seen before on page 237 of Volume II of Marc Cushman's "These Are The Voyages" of the unfinished side of the model with all the electrical cables hanging out. It says it's from someone named Bob Olsen. Not sure if it would be cool to scan it and post it here (since it's from a new book, as opposed to some old thing that's no longer available), but if you all are as big of Star Trek geeks as I am, you should probably just buy the books.

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