Page 2 of 25 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast
Subscribe
  1. RPF Premium Member Darth Lars's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2002
    From
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Messages
    4,123
    Nov 7, 2014, 9:13 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #26

    GINO said: View Post
    But when comparisons come up that include my stuff or untrue statements are made such as the one quoted here I'm going to have to chime in and set the record straight.
    Technically, I expressed my personal opinion. I did not make a statement that could be true or untrue.

    I am not 100% sure that this track is perfect to my own mind's view of the real track but so far I find it to be a good candidate. Yesterday, I ordered only a single set of track so that I could examine it closer in person before I choose to replace the track on my lightsabers and blasters. Maybe the top of the fin is too thick, in which case I would sand it thinner. I could modify the track more to my liking, which I wouldn't be able with yours ... because your track is too thin for me.

    GINO said: View Post
    I think this new stuff is pretty close, definitely closer than marv's or blastech, but to say it is perfectly screen accurate would be a generalization.
    Saying that your T-track would be perfectly accurate is also a generalization. Perfection is theoretically impossible.
    Even if you have taken measurements of some original T-track, your design is still an interpretation, just that you have scaled down the level of interpolation to fractions of a millimetre.
    It is the nature of thermoplastic that it shrinks and warps somewhat as it cools after moulding or extrusion, and that means that there are tiny differences from track to track and sometimes even from different spots on the same track.

    After several years, someone else started a competing product at a quality level approaching yours. That is something that happens in business that you just have to accept. I think it would be more productive of you to improve the attractiveness of your own product than to talk down other people's products and the people who are interested in them.
    Last edited by Darth Lars; Nov 7, 2014 at 10:11 PM.
  2. RPF Premium Member GINO's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2001
    From
    bright center of the universe
    Messages
    5,513
    Nov 7, 2014, 10:54 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #27

    Darth Lars said: View Post
    Technically, I expressed my personal opinion. I did not make a statement that could be true or untrue.

    Saying that your T-track would be perfectly accurate is also a generalization. Perfection is theoretically impossible.
    Even if you have taken measurements of some original T-track, your design is still an interpretation, just that you have scaled down the level of interpolation to fractions of a millimetre.
    It is the nature of thermoplastic that it shrinks and warps somewhat as it cools after moulding or extrusion, and that means that there are tiny differences from track to track and sometimes even from different spots on the same track.
    What I'm saying is that if you laid my track down next to the real deal you couldn't tell which was which even with calipers.
    You can only get that kind of accuracy from taking measurements from screen-used stuff. Hardly from photographs.

    Darth Lars said: View Post
    After several years, someone else started a competing product at a quality level approaching yours. That is something that happens in business that you just have to accept. I think it would be more productive of you to improve the attractiveness of your own product than to talk down other people's products and the people who are interested in them.
    There is nothing on my product to improve, and I'm sorry you interpret my clarifying of the facts to be talking down to other people's stuff. That is not my intent.
    If I don't clear the air here and now, that's how misinformation gets spread.

    I don't mind a competing product. I don't and haven't minded any of the others over the years as well. What I do take issue with the muddying of the waters that would lead people to believe that this new track is more accurate or even as accurate as mine when it factually is not.

    In fact, many times I have referred people who didn't want to spend the extra money for my t-track or didn't care that much about hardcore screen accuracy to people like marv.
    I would have no problem referring those people to roygilsing as well.
    The people who buy my stuff usually know what they are getting in advance so I don't see it as a competing product.



    .
  3. RPF Premium Member NeoRutty's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2013
    From
    Vancouver, BC. Canada
    Messages
    2,849
    Nov 8, 2014, 1:56 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #28

    Im just stoked all these options exist. I've put blastech on my scratch built, I've put Gino's on my ANH luke... and now as I put together an ROTJ MOM Vader, I'll likely pick up Roy's...

    I've got Marv's on an old flash where I wanted to just incorporate styles from various sabers...

    It's ludicrious to put down one over another... it's all good. I've got this growing collection, and it seems every guy putting out parts is getting represented.

    Further more, I'm looking forward to what Roy has coming down the line. The kobold clip is great cuz it cost me a stupid enough to get my last parks, and I really didn't want to pay that again for the ESB I have coming up.
  4. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2011
    From
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Messages
    3,639
    Nov 8, 2014, 11:55 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #29

    Hear Hear!

    (My apologies if my comment stirred the pot. Like I noted, that's just my gut/first impression. Obviously I haven't handled the real thing, but I still feel free to express my opinion, I don't have facts)

    On that note, does anyone know if this track was cast/replicated for floor prop replacements in later years, or did they have a solid stock to use for replacements up until ROTJ?
  5. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2014
    From
    Rotterdam, the Netherlands
    Messages
    728
    Nov 8, 2014, 11:59 AM - Various OT lightsaber parts #30

    Hello GINO, pleasure to meet you. Thanks for your response, I was expecting your reaction and wasn't surprised about what you wrote.

    You claim to have the only perfectly accurate T-track, which is a very bold statement. I have a few remarks about your claim:

    First of all, I wonder why you claim to have (had) access to actual screen used T-profile but don't explain which prop it was, where is was and how you did it. Why would anybody take your word for it? If you make claims like that why don't you back it up with some evidence? I would. I actually describe in detail my process, which is basically what we all do here on this forum. I can't claim to have had access to the real props, because I haven't, but as you can see in my post I did use images from the archive and shown in this blog: http://www.originalprop.com/blog/201...from-19961997/
    As you notice there are three images of the Luke ESB saber and somebody is measuring a track with a caliper. With some Photoshop enhancing and smart deducing the values can be read. And thus the width is a given.

    Second is related to the interpretation of the shape of the section of the profile. In order to replicate the T shape, at some point in time, some form of interpretation MUST take place. ONLY measuring width and height doesn't give you the proper shape of the profile. What about the truncated rib? What about the radius on the base? This comes down to copying it in CAD software at some point, and this is done by people with eyes and hands. YOU have done this and I have done this. There is no such thing as a 'perfect replica', because we are not perfect human beings.

    Then there is the imperfections and production related tolerances that Darth Lars is mentioning.

    Fourth and last is most important of all, and is the whole ESSENCE of the RPF. It is about the passion and pleasure of building replicas. It is about fantasy and fun. It is an emotional process, with people enjoying their hobbies. It is not a cold, clinical thing. Not a science, not a single truth. That is why every person has a different point of view on what is right and what is perfect. And they are ALL right and ALL perfect. This is what I like a lot and even though I'm an engineer, it's this softer side that makes me want to do all this.

    I hope I didn't offend you, so let's just move on and do what we all like doing; build beautiful things.

    Roy
  6. RPF Premium Member GINO's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2001
    From
    bright center of the universe
    Messages
    5,513
    Nov 8, 2014, 12:47 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #31

    roygilsing said: View Post
    You claim to have the only perfectly accurate T-track, which is a very bold statement. I have a few remarks about your claim:
    I don't think of it as bold. It's just factual.



    roygilsing said: View Post
    First of all, I wonder why you claim to have (had) access to actual screen used T-profile but don't explain which prop it was, where is was and how you did it. Why would anybody take your word for it? If you make claims like that why don't you back it up with some evidence?
    Because I'm not always at liberty to disclose such things.
    No one HAS to take my word for it. In fact I would encourage anyone who doubts my credibility to NOT buy from me.
    The stuff I have is meant for people who have to have the most accurate and know and trust me and my body of work.



    roygilsing said: View Post
    I can't claim to have had access to the real props, because I haven't, but as you can see in my post I did use images from the archive and shown in this blog: http://www.originalprop.com/blog/201...from-19961997/
    As you notice there are three images of the Luke ESB saber and somebody is measuring a track with a caliper. With some Photoshop enhancing and smart deducing the values can be read. And thus the width is a given.
    Yes, but I have and on many occasions. And while mine is based on using actual measurements and scans, yours is based on extrapolating/deducing data from photographs.
    And we all know when you go try to reverse engineer from photos there is quite a bit of interpretation and human error that enters the equation.
    All you have to do is look at the comparison you posted of my t-track next to yours and you can see the errors in yours quite easily.



    roygilsing said: View Post
    Second is related to the interpretation of the shape of the section of the profile. In order to replicate the T shape, at some point in time, some form of interpretation MUST take place. ONLY measuring width and height doesn't give you the proper shape of the profile.
    Who said only the width and height was measured?? Measurements were taken as well as actual scan data and my profile was created from that.



    roygilsing said: View Post
    There is no such thing as a 'perfect replica', because we are not perfect human beings.
    I see people in the prop world using this excuse to create a false sense of equality. "Nothing is perfect so both of our imperfect replicas are equal on some level."
    This is simply untrue. Accuracy can me measured and quantified and mine is indistinguishable from the real stuff whether you judge by eye or caliper.
    That is about as 'perfect' as one can hope for.



    roygilsing said: View Post
    Fourth and last is most important of all, and is the whole ESSENCE of the RPF. It is about the passion and pleasure of building replicas. It is about fantasy and fun. It is an emotional process, with people enjoying their hobbies.
    Agreed. So you can understand why I take issue when someone comes along and makes untrue claims about something I've made or try to create a false equivalency in order to compete for sales.



    roygilsing said: View Post
    It is not a cold, clinical thing. Not a science, not a single truth. That is why every person has a different point of view on what is right and what is perfect. And they are ALL right and ALL perfect.
    I fundamentally disagree with all of this. Accuracy can be measured and quantified. And there is truth in accuracy.
    People's personal preference for accurate vs idealized is an entirely different thing and that is not what is being discussed here.



    roygilsing said: View Post
    I hope I didn't offend you, so let's just move on and do what we all like doing; build beautiful things.
    Yeah, pretty offended. Calling my credibility into question as well as fostering the misconception that your product is as screen accurate as mine when factually it is not pretty much does the trick.

    I've had harmony with the other t-track makers because none of them ever tried to say that their stuff was more accurate than mine when it wasn't. They catered to a different group of prop collectors who were fine to sacrifice a certain amount of accuracy for a cheaper cost. Nothing wrong with that and because of that I very often refer people to them who come to me who want t-track but don't have to have the best of the best or want a cheaper alternative.

    But it seems you (or a couple of your customers) have chosen to attempt to muddy the waters when it comes to the differences between what you have to offer vs. me.
    That's what I take issue with.



    .
  7. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2014
    From
    Rotterdam, the Netherlands
    Messages
    728
    Nov 8, 2014, 6:23 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #32

    Well, I apologize for giving you the idea that I was trying to bring your credibility into question. I am not. And the fact that you have access to the archives and make scans of the original props is something I can only envy you for. I also never tried to claim a MORE accurate profile than yours or anybody else's. That is not for me to decide. It's just that I have used all my skills to create what is good for myself. And I am myself very pleased with that result. It is unfortunate that you are not at liberty to disclose some more information on the process, since it would be very interesting indeed.
    Again, my apologies for offending you.


    Roy

    www.wannawanga.com
  8. matty matt's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2014
    Messages
    1,133
    Nov 8, 2014, 6:34 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #33

    Thank you for making this stuff available Roy. Everything looks great and I've ordered a set of T track for my ESB Graflex.
  9. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2011
    From
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Messages
    3,639
    Nov 9, 2014, 1:21 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #34

    ...well damn. That escalated quickly.
    Last edited by thd9791; Nov 9, 2014 at 11:45 AM.
  10. forcesensitive's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2010
    From
    Croatia
    Messages
    104
    Nov 10, 2014, 5:49 AM - Various OT lightsaber parts #35

    roygilsing said: View Post
    Well, I apologize for giving you the idea that I was trying to bring your credibility into question. I am not. And the fact that you have access to the archives and make scans of the original props is something I can only envy you for. I also never tried to claim a MORE accurate profile than yours or anybody else's. That is not for me to decide. It's just that I have used all my skills to create what is good for myself. And I am myself very pleased with that result. It is unfortunate that you are not at liberty to disclose some more information on the process, since it would be very interesting indeed.
    Again, my apologies for offending you.


    Roy

    www.wannawanga.com
    ...nevermind
    Last edited by forcesensitive; Nov 10, 2014 at 6:07 AM.
  11. Sym-Cha's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2008
    From
    Groningen, Netherlands
    Messages
    4,675
    Nov 10, 2014, 8:28 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #36

    thd9791 said: View Post
    On that note, does anyone know if this track was cast/replicated for floor prop replacements in later years, or did they have a solid stock to use for replacements up until ROTJ?
    Now this is a rather interesting question ... since I haven't found any real vintage T-track ever since I started looking for it ... besides the nice metal one found by pfillery from downunder that alas also had the wrong profile . . . so does anyone know? . . . Was there an abundance of stock T-track available between 1976 and 1983 for the propguys to work with?

    Chaim
  12. Andymac84's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2008
    From
    Vilshofen - Germany
    Messages
    827
    Nov 10, 2014, 4:58 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #37

    Does your T-Tracks come with a strip for attaching it?
  13. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2014
    From
    Rotterdam, the Netherlands
    Messages
    728
    Nov 10, 2014, 5:34 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #38

    Andymac84 said: View Post
    Does your T-Tracks come with a strip for attaching it?
    Hi Andymac84,
    No, they don't. The tracks are best glued with an epoxy adhesive. Double sided tape is maybe an option, but when I tried it didn't stick well to the Graflex. Or maybe it just wasn't the proper tape.


    Roy

    www.wannawanga.com
  14. Mystery Chunk RPF Premium Member PoopaPapaPalps's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    From
    IA, USA
    Messages
    2,169
    Nov 10, 2014, 7:31 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #39

    Sym-Cha said: View Post
    Now this is a rather interesting question ... since I haven't found any real vintage T-track ever since I started looking for it ... besides the nice metal one found by pfillery from downunder that alas also had the wrong profile . . . so does anyone know? . . . Was there an abundance of stock T-track available between 1976 and 1983 for the propguys to work with?

    Chaim

    Considering someone was selling them by the spool on the Junkyard before the overhaul (I don't remember if they were correct but they sure looked the part), I'm sure the prop guys had easier access to them than we have now.
  15. RPF Premium Member Darth Lars's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2002
    From
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Messages
    4,123
    Nov 10, 2014, 8:01 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #40

    Sym-Cha said: View Post
    Was there an abundance of stock T-track available between 1976 and 1983 for the propguys to work with?
    I searched in some old threads and found:
    lonepigeon said: View Post
    One of the original prop guys from Bapty confirmed that the T-track was plastic and bent with a heat gun. He also mentioned that they ran out of black at one point and used brown t-track painted black on some of the guns. The black paint did not stick well.
    I thought that there was also a post from moffeaton about seeing resin-cast T-track on a prop from ROTJ, but I can't find it. I might have remembered wrong.
    Of course, T-tracks were moulded in on some "stunt" E-11's used in ESB who were moulded whole and cast in resin as one piece.
  16. jkno's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2008
    From
    Dracula's Castle
    Messages
    2,564
    Nov 11, 2014, 3:37 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #41

    PoopaPapaPalps said: View Post
    Considering someone was selling them by the spool on the Junkyard before the overhaul (I don't remember if they were correct but they sure looked the part), I'm sure the prop guys had easier access to them than we have now.

    Not sure if they were original though.


    Darth Lars said: View Post
    I searched in some old threads and found:

    lonepigeon said:


    One of the original prop guys from Bapty confirmed that the T-track was plastic and bent with a heat gun. He also mentioned that they ran out of black at one point and used brown t-track painted black on some of the guns. The black paint did not stick well.

    I thought that there was also a post from moffeaton about seeing resin-cast T-track on a prop from ROTJ, but I can't find it. I might have remembered wrong.
    Of course, T-tracks were moulded in on some "stunt" E-11's used in ESB who were moulded whole and cast in resin as one piece.


    The Pugman blaster has accurate (molded-in) t-tracks. I also think Master Replicas t-tracks from the E-11 are pretty accurate, though idealized, especially when rounded to insert in the barrel.

    Wish we could find a batch of the old stuff...
  17. RPF Premium Member Darth Lars's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2002
    From
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Messages
    4,123
    Nov 11, 2014, 5:09 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #42

    jkno said: View Post
    The Pugman blaster has accurate (molded-in) t-tracks.
    Yep. It is the type of his original production-used blaster that I was thinking of.
    But you can't rely too much of one of his recasts as reference, partly because of paint thickness and partly because of resin shrinkage in each generation. We don't know at which generation his original blaster really is nor which types of resin/s were used.

    jkno said: View Post
    Wish we could find a batch of the old stuff...
    Indeed. It is a bit frustrating considering how many wrong types of T-track we have found.
  18. jkno's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2008
    From
    Dracula's Castle
    Messages
    2,564
    Nov 11, 2014, 6:11 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #43

    Darth Lars said: View Post
    Yep. It is the type of his original production-used blaster that I was thinking of.
    But you can't rely too much of one of his recasts as reference, partly because of paint thickness and partly because of resin shrinkage in each generation. We don't know at which generation his original blaster really is nor which types of resin/s were used.


    Indeed. It is a bit frustrating considering how many wrong types of T-track we have found.
    I know of the shrinkage possibility alas. Though I don't own any MR lightsaber I'm wondering how they compare to Gino, Roy, Marv and even MR E-11 or MR Force FX T-tracks.
  19. Mystery Chunk RPF Premium Member PoopaPapaPalps's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    From
    IA, USA
    Messages
    2,169
    Nov 13, 2014, 9:09 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #44

    Got my ANH set today and they were flawless! Slapped them on my Graflex as soon as I got them and this is the result:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	001.JPG 
Views:	204 
Size:	2.14 MB 
ID:	405273 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	002.JPG 
Views:	191 
Size:	2.11 MB 
ID:	405274 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	003.JPG 
Views:	190 
Size:	2.25 MB 
ID:	405275

    Not bad for what could be the easiest thing to assemble ever.

    EDIT:
    So much for it being easy! I just noticed I cut my grips a little too short. You got another order from me on the way!
    Last edited by PoopaPapaPalps; Nov 13, 2014 at 10:43 PM. Reason: My excitement got the better of me, yet again
  20. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2014
    From
    Rotterdam, the Netherlands
    Messages
    728
    Nov 14, 2014, 1:27 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #45

    Looking good! Thanks for sharing!


    Roy

    www.wannawanga.com
  21. Sym-Cha's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2008
    From
    Groningen, Netherlands
    Messages
    4,675
    Nov 14, 2014, 8:09 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #46

    PoopaPapaPalps said: View Post
    So much for it being easy! I just noticed I cut my grips a little too short.
    Indeed you need your grips to be just a little short otherwise you can never open up your clamp again ... so leave it be, yours look fine to me ... get moving on to a Luke ESB G R A F L E X instead

    Chaim
  22. RPF Premium Member NeoRutty's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2013
    From
    Vancouver, BC. Canada
    Messages
    2,849
    Nov 14, 2014, 11:30 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #47

    Yeah I don't see anything wrong with the lengths... unless it's on the not pictured back end...
  23. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2011
    From
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Messages
    3,639
    Nov 14, 2014, 12:49 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #48

    I'll agree with chaim: I can't adjust my clamp until I take my blast-tech grips off. I've been waiting until I get replacement track (speak of the devil) so once I budget it in, I'll redo mine!
  24. Mystery Chunk RPF Premium Member PoopaPapaPalps's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    From
    IA, USA
    Messages
    2,169
    Nov 14, 2014, 2:38 PM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #49

    It's the distance between the clamp and the top of the grips; it's too large. I don't intend to open the clamp or do anything else with the saber beyond the grips, that's why I have everything locked in place. Everything is where it needs to be to my liking. I'll keep these grips, though, whenever I find a good replica body of an MPP for an ANH Vader (if I decide to do one, my initial plans are to keep my collection small and select for now) and use the extra track for the thing on Han's ANH Hero.

    No, Luke ESB for me, I'm afraid. Don't think I have it in budget for another Graflex (let alone the price I got my current one at, which was a steal) and I'm perfectly alright with an ANH Luke in my arsenal.
  25. RPF Premium Member Darth Lars's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2002
    From
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Messages
    4,123
    Nov 15, 2014, 12:53 AM - Re: Various OT lightsaber parts #50

    PoopaPapaPalps said: View Post
    I just noticed I cut my grips a little too short.
    Have you pressed the Graflex together completely? When the clamp is loose there should be a little bit of play lengthwise.

    roygilsing said: View Post
    Hi Andymac84,
    No, they don't. The tracks are best glued with an epoxy adhesive. Double sided tape is maybe an option, but when I tried it didn't stick well to the Graflex. Or maybe it just wasn't the proper tape.
    I suppose he was thinking of Blast-Tech's rubber T-track which was made to fit against the body of a Graflex flash...

    Some people mount T-tracks on their Vader sabers with double-sided foam tape, because it lifts the ends of the tracks over the MPP's endcap . It is not perfectly screen accurate, but it looks neater. The sides of the tape should be blackened with a marker pen first. I don't remember who here that first posted about this trick.

    I put some Milliput into the grooves of some T-track I got from Roy, to adapt them to be used with thin double-sided tape on a Graflex, but it was much more difficult to do right than I thought it would be. Some thick glue would be easier.

    The original tracks were used for sliding drawers in office furniture. That is why the base is mostly flat. It has been speculated that the groove was intended for a string of glue. Another theory is that it is because if you cut off a section of the fin and drive a screw through the base into the cabinet wall, then the screw might drive up some wood chips that would need some place to go.
    Even though the exact type has not been found, at least six other types of plastic furniture tracks have. Some have had an almost-identical groove to the movie-used (and to Roy's) tracks. Others are flat on the bottom or have barbed protrusions to fit into grooves in the cabinet wall.

    Darth Lars said: View Post
    I thought that there was also a post from moffeaton about seeing resin-cast T-track on a prop from ROTJ, but I can't find it. I might have remembered wrong.
    I think I and he must have referred to the lightsaber that Darth Vader's severed hand is still holding after Luke had cut it off in ROTJ. That lightsaber is definitely a resin-cast, probably of the "Barbican saber" with a couple different greeblies.
    Last edited by Darth Lars; Nov 15, 2014 at 3:11 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Sourcing Lightsaber Parts
    joostin, Star Wars Costumes and Props
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Apr 17, 2015, 9:22 PM
  2. Lightsaber parts needed in UK - Help please
    real_ronin677, Star Wars Costumes and Props
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jan 18, 2015, 5:54 PM
  3. lightsaber parts
    jlward2, Star Wars Costumes and Props
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Mar 3, 2014, 2:58 PM
  4. Q's about lightsaber parts...
    Squall67584, Star Wars Costumes and Props
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Jan 13, 2010, 9:15 PM

Tags