Captain Marvel
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firesprite
Master Member
I'm not saying it can't work because the Duffer brothers did amazing work on Stranger Things. I just have zero exposure to this particular pairing and have no idea how good they are/aren't.
A little more information http://www.empireonline.com/people/brie-larson/captain-marvel-anna-boden-ryan-fleck-hired-direct/
They appear to have got the job because they were the best for it. So far Marvels choice of directors has been pretty inspired and kept the films feeling fresh and distinct. Studios have paid attention , there are a number of female lead actioners coming out this year, it will be interesting to see how they will perform.
They appear to have got the job because they were the best for it. So far Marvels choice of directors has been pretty inspired and kept the films feeling fresh and distinct. Studios have paid attention , there are a number of female lead actioners coming out this year, it will be interesting to see how they will perform.
I think Marvel/Feige's instincts about hiring directors has more to do with how they treat character and exposition than having a track record of action films. It's the ability to see beyond stereotypic genre that makes these films transcendent.
If you hire, oh let's say, the director of Sucker Punch to direct a superhero movie you should expect to get Sucker Punch with superheroes. Just sayin'.
If you hire, oh let's say, the director of Sucker Punch to direct a superhero movie you should expect to get Sucker Punch with superheroes. Just sayin'.
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JD
Master Member
Everytime I see this thread has a new post, I have hope that we're getting a real Captain Marvel movie (preferably without the Dwayne Johnson).
Exclusive: Kevin Feige on Why the ‘Captain Marvel’ Directors Were the Right People For the Job
Kevin Feige talking about Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck:
"They came in many, many times and impressed us in the room with what they had to say about Carol Danvers. […] They live in New York and they would fly out at a moment’s notice to come in and pitch on it, which always means a lot. Anna and Ryan had a strong sense of, not just the plotting and the machinations of the plot, but on Carol’s journey, which is the most important thing about the movie. We can help out with all the accoutrements of action and sci-fi worlds, but we wanted someone who could really be a guiding hand to Carol and to Brie [Larson] and to that journey, which is what the whole movie is about: someone becoming the most powerful being in the universe. You look at their work and like most of the directors we’ve hired, [they’re] not giant, effects-drive action, but rather very unique and very personal character stories and character journeys. And very diverse, in terms of the subject matter they’ve chosen to tell and they nail it every time. I think they see Carol as another rich, three-dimensional character to explore, who just happens to be able to fly and punch through moons and to lead intergalactic teams."
Kevin Feige on Why Marvel Chose Ryan Fleck and Anna Boden to Direct 'Captain Marvel' | Fandango
"We met with lots and lots of people as we always do, and had multiple meetings, and Anna and Ryan just had an amazing way of talking about Carol Danvers and talking about her journey," Feige said. "We want filmmakers that can help us focus on and elevate the character journey so it doesn't get lost amongst the spectacle. And there's going to be a lot of spectacle in the Captain Marvel film."
Feige continued, "We're pretty good at that at Marvel Studios, and have an amazing team that can help with that. But when we're filling a director chair or chairs, we want people who are focused on the emotional journey, the humor, the surprising twists and turns of a singular character journey, which is what Captain Marvel is. They had the best handle on it. And when you look at the work that Ryan and Anna have done in the past, they are all amazing and very diverse character studies and journeys, and that impressed us."
Kevin Feige talking about Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck:
"They came in many, many times and impressed us in the room with what they had to say about Carol Danvers. […] They live in New York and they would fly out at a moment’s notice to come in and pitch on it, which always means a lot. Anna and Ryan had a strong sense of, not just the plotting and the machinations of the plot, but on Carol’s journey, which is the most important thing about the movie. We can help out with all the accoutrements of action and sci-fi worlds, but we wanted someone who could really be a guiding hand to Carol and to Brie [Larson] and to that journey, which is what the whole movie is about: someone becoming the most powerful being in the universe. You look at their work and like most of the directors we’ve hired, [they’re] not giant, effects-drive action, but rather very unique and very personal character stories and character journeys. And very diverse, in terms of the subject matter they’ve chosen to tell and they nail it every time. I think they see Carol as another rich, three-dimensional character to explore, who just happens to be able to fly and punch through moons and to lead intergalactic teams."
Kevin Feige on Why Marvel Chose Ryan Fleck and Anna Boden to Direct 'Captain Marvel' | Fandango
"We met with lots and lots of people as we always do, and had multiple meetings, and Anna and Ryan just had an amazing way of talking about Carol Danvers and talking about her journey," Feige said. "We want filmmakers that can help us focus on and elevate the character journey so it doesn't get lost amongst the spectacle. And there's going to be a lot of spectacle in the Captain Marvel film."
Feige continued, "We're pretty good at that at Marvel Studios, and have an amazing team that can help with that. But when we're filling a director chair or chairs, we want people who are focused on the emotional journey, the humor, the surprising twists and turns of a singular character journey, which is what Captain Marvel is. They had the best handle on it. And when you look at the work that Ryan and Anna have done in the past, they are all amazing and very diverse character studies and journeys, and that impressed us."
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Riceball
Master Member
The Nerdist got a chance to visit Marvel HQ and got a sneak peek at the first concept art for Capt. Marvel's costume, unfortunately, no cameras were allowed so they only described what they saw. They said while they'll be retaining her iconic color scheme and the 8 pointed star but the costume won't be skin tight spandex, it's being described as being more utilitarian, sort of like Cap's costume with the armor and all. The sash is being re-imagined as a utility belt, which fits in with the more military/utilitarian costume design.
http://nerdist.com/captain-marvel-f...etter&utm_campaign=NerdistNewsletter_20170420
http://nerdist.com/captain-marvel-f...etter&utm_campaign=NerdistNewsletter_20170420
Fawbish
Sr Member
I swear there used to be a time when you could elevate someone or compliment them without also taking a potshot at someone/something else...though perhaps I am mistaken in my infinite naivety.
On topic, I know little about Cap'n Marvel, Brie Larson seems a fairly solid actor in what little I've seen. Haven't seen anything by this directing team, sounds like they've been through a good process (am sure it also had nothing to do at all with cost of new-to-blockbuster directors
) to get the right people on it. She sounds badass. In true comic fashion, what do we think her "power level" will be in the MCU based on Feige's comments?
Physically, I think the most physically powerful figure we've seen in the MCU so far (in action) is probably Ronan/Vision? Held an inifinity stone on their own etc.
Ronan/Vision/Hulk/Abomination?
Thor/Malekith/Loki/Ant-man in Giant Man mode/Groot
Cap America/Red Skull/Spider-man/Iron Man/Warmachine/Whiplash (in final armour)/Stane (In Armour)/Ultron/Killian/Black Panther/Drax/Gamora/Nebula
All non-augmented humans (which is basically the rest of the cast - even if they are hard as nails like Widow or Hawkeye, they're still physically normal human)
Would we agree roughly on those physical power levels? Not including Thanos as we havent seen him in action. I'm assuming from the sounds of it, that Carol Danvers will essentially be able to stop Hulk in his tracks and give him a spanking?
I'm not amused but simply angry. I'm angry at Warner/DC. I'm angry they didn't shed Snyder long ago. I'm angry they couldn't keep Affleck as a director. I'm angry nobody wants to direct the Flash movie. I'm angry that Cyborg looks bad. I'm angry SS was reworked at the last minute to make it more like the last trailer. I'm completely spent from seeing them make wrong turns and seemingly waste opportunities while misreading the fandom. I'd love to see great superhero films all around but Warner/DC so far has been squandering their legacy.
But WW is looking hopeful and I hope Joss Wheaton doesn't mysteriously leave the Batgirl project. Warner/DC already snubbed him once by rejecting his WW script years ago. Marvel seems to be hiring lesser known directors who have a good sense of character. I'm angry Warner/DC can't do the same.
I stand by my statement. If you hire the director of Sucker Punch to make a superhero film expect to get Sucker punch with superheroes.
Warner/DC take heed.
Fawbish
Sr Member
I'm genuinely sorry that you haven't got the interpretations that you want out of this crop of films so far. I really am, it sucks. A few things though, that may assist in redirecting some of that titanic rage -
1) Couldn't keep Affleck? I'm fairly certain it's his choice to step down, and I don't blame him. There is only so much pressure a person can take while still enjoying their job/family. Why would they force that?
2) I'm sure there are a lot of people that want to direct a Flash movie (or any other major tentpole franchise film) - it doesn't mean the right person is in that current crop. Hardly a studios fault, on the surface. Yeah, they may be asking directors to conform to an overarching vision (it's a shared universe afterall), and that may be turning people away. But I'm certain X-Men/MCU and other franchises from different studios have the exact same issue.
3) Cyborg - subjective, but we're also 8 months away when the footage was released. Bad design, now that's a different complaint, and fair play if you're not digging the cyber humanoid look. I could probably lose a little of the angling, but overall I want to see it polished (not literally. Or maybe literally? Cyborg sat on a sofa, car wax in hand?) in motion.
4) SS - can't argue there. Even with my positive spin on things, I dont love SS overall. There are parts that I think are great, though the story overall wasn't right in terms of supernatural threat vs more grounded threats - something Ayer admitted recently with hindsight.
5) They don't misread the fandom. They misread your specific wants and needs, which happen to be shared by some others. As much as everyone within their own echo chambers seems to want to believe that these films are universally hated, they simply arent. Of course they aren't universally loved either - but neither is any franchise. MCU gets the closest, still has it's haters and people that dislike it, it appeals the broadest spectrum out of all the franchises of course. There are parts of the fandom that these DC interpretations work for though, very well. I've had literally days of entertainment (not just the hours watching) from the DCEU enjoying all sorts of analysis from media/podcasts/discussion that springs up in its wake. (Fully awaiting someone to tell me I'm categorically wrong, but once it hits that stage the conversation has ended unfortunately - I'm not here to prove your feelings wrong, or mine right, just to discuss stuff :thumbsup)
6) Did they "snub" him on WW? Was it hateful and petty when they decided against investing millions in an idea at a certain point in the past, as all studios do every year? That's business, man. Sure, it sucks that it happened. Same as it happened to Edgar Wright from the other camp. 2006 was a weird time now that we look back. None of these films even connected outside of trilogies. :eek I feel ancient. I've read the Whedon WW script - I thought it was an enjoyable read, and seeing it come to life would have been interesting. Did you manage to read a copy? Just incase anyone hasn't seen it, https://indiegroundfilms.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/wonder-woman-aug7-07-joss-whedon.pdf
I know you won't really care to see any of that, and most likely it may even make you more angry - I hope it doesn't. Speaking generally, I don't think the bitterness and mocking (not aimed at you specifically) so often exuded by people in a frustrated position (in any fandom) has any meaningful impact on the issue. Discussion, understanding, being open to ideas, and suggestions of how a personal interpretation would be favourable would be more meaningful, imo.
I understand being frustrated and angry in this realm of stuff. Kinda sucks seeing something you enjoy get flack, too.
Edit: after reading a bit about Carol, I really want to see a "misunderstanding leads to a little scuffle" between her and the other Avengers. Ending with most of the Avengers on their arses, and Carol holding back. Are there any specific storylines she's in that would be worth checking out?
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firesprite
Master Member
I swear there used to be a time when you could elevate someone or compliment them without also taking a potshot at someone/something else...though perhaps I am mistaken in my infinite naivety.
On topic, I know little about Cap'n Marvel, Brie Larson seems a fairly solid actor in what little I've seen. Haven't seen anything by this directing team, sounds like they've been through a good process (am sure it also had nothing to do at all with cost of new-to-blockbuster directors
She sounds badass. In true comic fashion, what do we think her "power level" will be in the MCU based on Feige's comments?
Physically, I think the most physically powerful figure we've seen in the MCU so far (in action) is probably Ronan/Vision? Held an inifinity stone on their own etc.
Ronan/Vision/Hulk/Abomination?
Thor/Malekith/Loki/Ant-man in Giant Man mode/Groot
Cap America/Red Skull/Spider-man/Iron Man/Warmachine/Whiplash (in final armour)/Stane (In Armour)/Ultron/Killian/Black Panther/Drax/Gamora/Nebula
All non-augmented humans (which is basically the rest of the cast - even if they are hard as nails like Widow or Hawkeye, they're still physically normal human)
Would we agree roughly on those physical power levels? Not including Thanos as we havent seen him in action. I'm assuming from the sounds of it, that Carol Danvers will essentially be able to stop Hulk in his tracks and give him a spanking?
Carol is amazing and one of the true heavy-hitters of the Avengers. In terms of power-levels, she's generally considered on-par with Thor. The Kelly Sue DeConick run on Captain Marvel is absolutely fantastic and sees her heading off into space to get some time away from Avengers drama where she winds up running with the Guardians for a while. It's just a shame that during Civil War II, they had to essentially perform character assassination on her, it was so out of her norm.
I accept that Warner/DC has to scramble to find a voice/formula/machine to find their stride. The day that happens they'll take off like a rocket - probably faster and harder than Marvel ever did. I could be wrong but I feel like they're making the same mistakes and learning the wrong lessons (e.g. their mysteriously unshakable faith in Snyder). We can argue the validity of some of my concerns but look at the multitude of them. If Warner/DC was making better films (IMO) I would, understandably, be less vocal about my scrutiny.
I think the loss of Affleck was internally more complex than what was publicly stated. I won't encumber this Captain Marvel thread with that point again. But I was just as appalled with Marvel when they lost Edgar Wright for Ant-Man. In the end I was very happy with what Peyton Reed gave us and I would be just as pleased if the next Batman film put my concerns to rest. Until they do I remain concerned.
When I saw Superman in the 1970's it was the first film that opened my eyes to the possibilities. Nolan (not Burton) gave me a similar chill. Watchmen was amazing if only for the fact that it retained so much from the source material - at least visually and plotwise. I can't help but feel they've lost their way somehow. Maybe they should stick to what they do best - solid standalone films with iconoclastic directors who don't want to bother with the burden of being shackled to a shared universe.
I'll give you that. Maybe this isn't the best place to reference the competition. But when the question about what goes into hiring directors comes up it's natural to point out one simple distinction between the Marvel and DC ways of doing things - one that, I feel, DC could (easily?) address.
For me what gives this character such chilling agency is that her story has nothing to do with her romantic attachment (or rejection from attachment) to a male figure - nor does she wear her "independence" on her sleeve. She's just a well adjusted character that isn't defined by neuroses or psychological baggage.
firesprite
Master Member
Eh... it really depends on who writes her. There have been some absolutely horrible storylines inflicted on Carol over the years, and it, understandably, took a long time for her to get past the mind**** that Rogue put on her, but yes, overall, she's just a badass lady who lives life on her own terms and makes no apologies for the fact that she likes a good scrap.
A prime example of the storylines I'm talking about is #9 on this list: http://screenrant.com/weirdest-superhero-stories-ever-trivia/?view=all
MS. MARVEL GIVES BIRTH TO HER BOYFRIEND
In 1980’s Avengers #197, writer David Michelinie decided to make Ms. Marvel, aka Carol Danvers, pregnant. (These days, Kamala Khan is Ms. Marvel, while Carol Danvers has moved up the food chain to become Captain Marvel.) Carol’s accelerated pregnancy has her give birth to a baby boy named Marcus, who becomes a full-grown man with a power man-perm in just hours. Marcus, it turns out, was the son of an old Avengers nemesis named Immortus.
In an incredibly convoluted backstory, Michelinie has Marcus explain his bizarre circumstances. Basically, he was raised in Limbo by his father, but when dear old dad was gone, Marcus devised a way to escape Limbo and live in the mortal world. Needing a human vessel to be reborn on Earth, he chose Carol Danvers, plucked her out of space and time, wooed and won her heart in Limbo, had sex with her to implant his “essence” within her, and then sent her back to one second after he’d removed her. But things don’t work out for Marcus as he’d hoped, and he has to return to Limbo to save Earth. Feeling a deep connection to him, Carol decides to go with him.
The thing is, the next writer on the title, Chris Claremont, hated Michelinie’s outlandish story. In one of the fastest retcons in history, his Avengers Annual #10 saw Carol return to Earth after watching Marcus rapidly age and die during her very first week in Limbo.
Of course, this explanation of the storyline doesn't quite delve into the WTF levels of the storyline, including exactly zero of her friends, the Avengers, expressing doubts about this situation, and encouraging her to go with this guy.
I should mention I stopped reading in the late 1980's LOL. Admittedly that culminated with that horrid Avengers anniversary story with the time-travel pregnancy. Maybe I should add the qualifier of a well-interpreted Captain Marvel.
firesprite
Master Member
LOL! I literally went back and edited my post to include that storyline as an example!
LOL. It doesn't get much worse than that.
Fawbish
Sr Member
Thanks. Am I to understand that MCU Thor is fairly nerfed compared to comic counterpart - have read that a few times. In which case, Feiges comments sounds more like they will keep her slightly closer to her comic power levels, as someone else mentioned, maybe even as a plot point.
Also sounds like she has some good stories, but no outstanding "OMggggg this has to be done in film" ones - in which case, as her origin movie, do we have any ideas for what story they might try to pull from for the films?
That giving birth to her lover thing sounds fairly nuts.
firesprite
Master Member
She's definitely a complex character. Like Tony, she's struggled with alcoholism and took time off from the Avengers to be an author. She's also friends with a LOT of people in the Marvel universe (she and Spider-Woman were roomies for a while and girls-nights were pretty epic with her, She-Hulk, and Wasp). She inevitably has quite a few enemies as well, like Star Lord's dad, J'son of Spartax, the skrulls (Chitauri in the MCU), and others.
There are a LOT of ways they could go with her.
Now, they have stated that they're moving away from her comics origin which is... frankly, okay with me, as it doesn't really give her all that much agency (she ran off with an alien named Mar'Vel and his powers transferred to her when he died). I think what I would like is to see her flying her fighter, pursuing an unknown bogey and getting hit with a weapon, going down and coming out of it unscathed because the interaction of the weapon's energies with her physiology altered her DNA to make her superhuman.
