Doctor Who opinions

Ok, spoilers are about to drop, so the time to stop living dangerously by posting in this thread around the time the episode airs in the UK is now.

So yeah, this final episode seems very familiar, since its essentially the 11th Doctors final episode too.

The doctor has to fight an endless war against cybermen with only a lone cyberman as his most loyal companion? Ok Bill is more than just a head like Handles was, but damn Moffat, you are the greenest writer on TV with all this recycling!

I really don't like that cybermen can fly, way too Iron man, but that's been there a while now, also a Moffatt invention I believe.

The Missy Master betray I saw coming a mile off, I guess that's why a multi Doctor story is more viable than a multi Master story, their instinct for betrayal and murder even extends to themselves.

I liked the saving of Bill, a good call back to the first episode of this season, and leaves the way open for her to come back, now that she is essentially a tardis herself.

Now I am going to need help on this one, but I could swear when the doctor buried his hands in the snow and stopped the regeneration, for a second I saw Matt Smith's face, anyone else?

That ending though, Dave Bradley FTW.
 
Any one coming here now without seeing the last episode yet, well spoilers. Spoilers .SPOILLLERS !!!!!!!!!

To have started so well and to have failed it all so utterly by the end. To quote Victor Meldrew " I don't believe it". It was that bad.What a waste.So many opportunities in here for some really strong moments and Moffat shot them all in the back. Quite literally.
Did the budget just suddenly run out so that the Dr Who had to finish on a "Springwatch" set? And have horribly cute little kids run about fields of daffodils armed with grenade apples (no, not really in the end, lets just make the floor explode instead, you know after the Cybermen had already drilled so flyingly through it of course)?
Why even bother at all with that Master and Missy inclusion? What did they add to the story by the end of it? Perhaps a brave last stand with the Dr? Not. Instead lets do absolutely nothing with them at all ,thank you Mr Moffat for dealing them out of the story with a pile of pointless bloody chatting and then rather pantomime villain endings.
And lets make the Doctor battle to his final end (some bloody hope there !!!!)by waving his stupendously powerful magic wand around in an extended death scene that put the ham into ham salad and presumably blew the entire BBC SFX explosives budget . Only for him not to really die at all but instead too receive a gentle kiss on the brow like sleeping beauty from the now miraculously rescued side kick who has been saved from an eternally clichéd ending by none other than Water Girl from the first episode!!!
The only saving grace was at the VERY end when David Bradley turned up. "An Adventure in Time and Space" (written by Mark Gatiss) was the very best tribute to Dr Who I ever seen and I am heartened that he has turned up for the Xmas episode. Please God let it be better than this miserable effort!!
 
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Spoilers...

I quite enjoyed it. A bit dragged out and cliched at times - but, do you really expect more? In all, a great ride.

I just wish I would've paid a little more attention to the puddle girl from The Pilot - someone even suggested that she might return over on Reddit.
 
I enjoyed it. Ok, so I never like the newest cybermen flying, and I have no idea why the original ones suddenly can as well. Plus, jumping straight from 60's to modern style upgrades? Missed opportunity for 70's/80's Cybermen. The fields and barn and contemporary clothing? Moffat's well and truly over-used the "yes I know it looks like the 20th/21st century normal stuff but it's in space/the future/Galifrey, honest!" shtick.
Also, the number of times The Doctor has held a regeneration back, plus the fact that he can somehow fake one now... Moffat's ruined that as a cliffhanger/dramatic moment.
As much as I'm glad Bill was saved, it really cheapened the whole cyber-conversion. The Doctor was so sure he couldn't save her, but some random alien oil-leak (ok, sentient puddle.. like that's more sensible) from a parked shuttle, can whip up a new body just like that? Great! So next time the Cybermen show up, just call the time/space-travelling girlfriends (not, not Clara and Ashildr) and presto! De-cyberise everyone!
And that's another thing: Moffat routinely fumbles his endings. Excitement, action and drama... and then..? Oh **** five minutes left... um... the bad guys die suddenly and lets send the girls off to never be written about again. (Except the fanfic, I know the wlw fans will be writing 'Bill&Heather meet Clara&Ashildr' as we speak)
All that build-up of Missy questioning lifetimes of evil? Very unsatisfying end. I did like David Bradley showing up though, but I worry that means Moffat is going to Moffat all over the First Doctor's timeline now.
 
Angelus Lupus said:
I enjoyed it. Ok, so I never like the newest cybermen flying, and I have no idea why the original ones suddenly can as well. Plus, jumping straight from 60's to modern style upgrades? Missed opportunity for 70's/80's Cybermen. The fields and barn and contemporary clothing? Moffat's well and truly over-used the "yes I know it looks like the 20th/21st century normal stuff but it's in space/the future/Galifrey, honest!" shtick.
Also, the number of times The Doctor has held a regeneration back, plus the fact that he can somehow fake one now... Moffat's ruined that as a cliffhanger/dramatic moment.
As much as I'm glad Bill was saved, it really cheapened the whole cyber-conversion. The Doctor was so sure he couldn't save her, but some random alien oil-leak (ok, sentient puddle.. like that's more sensible) from a parked shuttle, can whip up a new body just like that? Great! So next time the Cybermen show up, just call the time/space-travelling girlfriends (not, not Clara and Ashildr) and presto! De-cyberise everyone!
And that's another thing: Moffat routinely fumbles his endings. Excitement, action and drama... and then..? Oh **** five minutes left... um... the bad guys die suddenly and lets send the girls off to never be written about again. (Except the fanfic, I know the wlw fans will be writing 'Bill&Heather meet Clara&Ashildr' as we speak)
All that build-up of Missy questioning lifetimes of evil? Very unsatisfying end. I did like David Bradley showing up though, but I worry that means Moffat is going to Moffat all over the First Doctor's timeline now.
Click to expand...
I agree with pretty much all of that. I have never liked the new Cybermen at all. I also did not like the hospital set. The bridge is futuristic but the hospital is from the 1940's? Let's hope the next person in charge of the show stops using magic to solve problems. And I think I saw a big plot hole. How did the Cybermen reset their programming to think humans have one heart?

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Just curious, anyone else on the US West Coast get screwed out of watching, because, without any advertisement, they started it a half hour early?
 
NormanF said:
I agree with pretty much all of that. I have never liked the new Cybermen at all. I also did not like the hospital set. The bridge is futuristic but the hospital is from the 1940's? Let's hope the next person in charge of the show stops using magic to solve problems. And I think I saw a big plot hole. How did the Cybermen reset their programming to think humans have one heart?

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Click to expand...

They headed to that floor because they were after those with 2 hearts. They did tell the girl with the apple she'd be converted, but other than that i figured they were just killing whoever they had to to get to the gallifreans.

Dessa said:
Just curious, anyone else on the US West Coast get screwed out of watching, because, without any advertisement, they started it a half hour early?
Click to expand...

They did it to everyone, not just the west coast. Fortunately i tuned in to watch Part 1 again and missed the first half of that :)

I'm so happy Bradley gets in there. After the Adventure in Time and Space I thought he damned well earned a spot on the show. Wanted it to be the anniversary show, but at least it's finally happening.
 
Ok folks. You all know how I disdain Moffat these days, and think he tends to be the king of asspulls. You also know that I've taken a dim view of much of the writing in the Capaldi era.

With those things in mind and now that it's all over with, is this season really worth watching, or am I better just reading episode recaps to familiarize myself with things going forward? Was it a strong end, or a Moffaty end?
 
Hey Whovians all! New member here. Hello.

Solo4114 said:
Ok folks. You all know how I disdain Moffat these days, and think he tends to be the king of asspulls. You also know that I've taken a dim view of much of the writing in the Capaldi era.

With those things in mind and now that it's all over with, is this season really worth watching, or am I better just reading episode recaps to familiarize myself with things going forward? Was it a strong end, or a Moffaty end?
Click to expand...

I've never really figured out why so many people don't like Moffat (I'm a fan of his episodes for the most part, and despised Davies), and I've rather loved Capaldi (he reminds me in some ways of Hartnell), so keep that in mind with my recommendation. But, I think the season is worth watching. While the episodes were not the strongest this set, I really liked Bill as a companion and the last several episodes had interesting stuff going on with Missy, which for the most part was nuanced enough for me, even if at times it went slightly heavy-handed.
While I'll say that you are less likely to enjoy this season if you really don't care for Missy (I didn't for her first two or three appearances in Who, but then she won me over), it is at least worth it because I can see the possibility for several factors this season having an influence or reoccurrence in future seasons (though, from what I understand the new show runner is taking a totally different tact and I am not so sure about it), and it's looking like we might have an exciting Christmas special.


Personally, I'd love it if we could slow down the regenerations. I like to cosplay as All-the-Doctors, and I'm running out of room for props/outfit pieces. :p
12006681_795176063935383_7364195139969639792_o.jpg
(not pictured: Capaldi's sonic shades and ring)
 
Anyone know when the two last episodes will go up On Demand? Since BBCA screwed me over, I'm still waiting to be able to watch the finale!
 
Solo4114 said:
With those things in mind and now that it's all over with, is this season really worth watching, or am I better just reading episode recaps to familiarize myself with things going forward? Was it a strong end, or a Moffaty end?
Click to expand...
I would say flip a coin. Or "if nothing else is on". The good stuff was overshadowed by the bad. There was the "love will save us" two parter and an episode where a puddle can travel through space and time and shows up again in the final episode.



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I know Capaldi has been the doctor who does not shy about letting his enemies know he has killed in the past, but its hard to think of many previous episodes where he was just out and out murdering people left, right, and centre like this one.
 
I certainly enjoyed many of the ideas presented in the last few episodes. But it was not a great ending for Capaldi's DW, so I hope the Christmas Special is in fact something special. I never cared for Bill, so I hope this is the last we've seen of her. Not a very compelling season ender IMHO. I didn't hate it either.

I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next. I'm not a Moffatt hater by any stretch, but I'm ready for new blood.
 
Well to be fair 11ths last episode and this last one are essentially the same episode, with a sprinkle of Clara's last episode, no wonder they killed off both Masters so early, there was no lines for them in the script they were recycling.
 
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