Subscribe
  1. SethS's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2016
    From
    Los Angeles
    Messages
    1,492
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 22, 2017, 12:54 AM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #876

    You can't cite uneven fandom ridiculousness as evidence of what the actual writing (that has yet to happen) will actually be.
  2. Valar Morghulis RPF Premium Member kristen jones's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2013
    From
    Flint, MI.
    Messages
    1,650
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 22, 2017, 9:50 AM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #877

    I hope that you are right and that the writing won't make it a "thing".

    But I'd say there is at least a 50% chance that they will.
  3. doctorDWwho's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2015
    Messages
    405
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 22, 2017, 11:32 AM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #878

    SethS said: View Post
    You can't cite uneven fandom ridiculousness as evidence of what the actual writing (that has yet to happen) will actually be.
    Oh I'm not. I'm citing humanity as evidence.

    Also something that bothers and puts me off from the idea is that people are breaking the cycle. You know, the "who is this new person, they'll never replace [current doctor]" --> "okay, this person is starting to grow on me" --> "I love this person, I hope they never leave!" cycle. No one is treating her like the next doctor, it's either she's your lord and savior or you're a misogynist creep.
  4. SethS's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2016
    From
    Los Angeles
    Messages
    1,492
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 22, 2017, 11:38 AM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #879

    I said a couple posts back that I didn't assume misogynist creep just because somebody was against it. I just said I'd love for them to go deeper than "I just don't like it."

    that said, if you look at who is most vocally against it, and look at their rhetoric on other topics, a pretty clear profile forms.

    it reminds me of every time a black actor is cast in a traditionally white role. You get the "I'm not racist but... why not make a new black superhero/spy/whatever instead..." voices and 95% of the time it's a white dude. You hardly ever see a member of the minority in question saying that.
  5. cboath's Avatar
    Member Since
    Dec 2001
    Messages
    4,845
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 22, 2017, 12:03 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #880

    doctorDWwho said: View Post
    Oh I'm not. I'm citing humanity as evidence.

    Also something that bothers and puts me off from the idea is that people are breaking the cycle. You know, the "who is this new person, they'll never replace [current doctor]" --> "okay, this person is starting to grow on me" --> "I love this person, I hope they never leave!" cycle. No one is treating her like the next doctor, it's either she's your lord and savior or you're a misogynist creep.
    Frankly, i'm treating her as i've treated each new doctor since 2006. That being, hmmm...we'll have to see how it goes. Anyone having a different is pure speculation. Hell, we haven't even seen her 60 seconds worth in a regeneration episode. She could be great, she could be terrible. We won't know until a few episodes have aired.
  6. doctorDWwho's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2015
    Messages
    405
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 22, 2017, 12:35 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #881

    SethS said: View Post
    I said a couple posts back that I didn't assume misogynist creep just because somebody was against it. I just said I'd love for them to go deeper than "I just don't like it."

    that said, if you look at who is most vocally against it, and look at their rhetoric on other topics, a pretty clear profile forms.

    it reminds me of every time a black actor is cast in a traditionally white role. You get the "I'm not racist but... why not make a new black superhero/spy/whatever instead..." voices and 95% of the time it's a white dude. You hardly ever see a member of the minority in question saying that.
    Sorry, I didn't mean you specifically thought everyone with reservations was misogynist, although there most definitely are some out there. I was making a broad generalisation (Oh the irony).

    cboath said: View Post
    Frankly, i'm treating her as i've treated each new doctor since 2006. That being, hmmm...we'll have to see how it goes. Anyone having a different is pure speculation. Hell, we haven't even seen her 60 seconds worth in a regeneration episode. She could be great, she could be terrible. We won't know until a few episodes have aired.
    I totally agree with this. No way to know how it will be right now.
  7. SethS's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2016
    From
    Los Angeles
    Messages
    1,492
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 22, 2017, 1:38 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #882

    cboath said: View Post
    Frankly, i'm treating her as i've treated each new doctor since 2006. That being, hmmm...we'll have to see how it goes. Anyone having a different is pure speculation. Hell, we haven't even seen her 60 seconds worth in a regeneration episode. She could be great, she could be terrible. We won't know until a few episodes have aired.
    This is basically me in the Graflex FB group telling people they can't look at ads, posters, or packaging to determine details of a prop. They have to see it onscreen.
  8. lukester911's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2017
    From
    England, United Kingdom
    Messages
    15
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 2:49 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #883

    Laws of probability always stated that the "entirely random" regeneration would make the Doctor female eventually. The fact that it has taken 14 regenerations should be the shocking part. I don't get the "But it's always been that way" argument. If that were the case the show would have died with Hartnell, or it would still be black and white and run on my cosplay budget (Sod all).
  9. cboath's Avatar
    Member Since
    Dec 2001
    Messages
    4,845
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 3:45 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #884

    lukester911 said: View Post
    Laws of probability always stated that the "entirely random" regeneration would make the Doctor female eventually. The fact that it has taken 14 regenerations should be the shocking part. I don't get the "But it's always been that way" argument. If that were the case the show would have died with Hartnell, or it would still be black and white and run on my cosplay budget (Sod all).
    The only issue with that is that they failed to point it out in the previous 30 years really. Ramona was able to shift at will and the doctor was basically show her the ropes of the universe - but she had full control and he has absolutely none? Don't recall that being explained. Seemingly, up until Missy, i don't think we ran across a cross-gender regen. And i'm not saying it's right, but it's quite possible some just assumed that was the case.

    Still, should be a fair question that at the age of 2500+ now, why does the doctor have zero control over how he regenerates. And for that matter, why couldn't he simply say, i like this incarnation and regen as his present self?

    As you say, the odds are extremely improbable that if it's truly random that he wouldn't have been a woman by now. And even less that he'd be a white male 13 consecutive times.
  10. lukester911's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2017
    From
    England, United Kingdom
    Messages
    15
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 4:18 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #885

    cboath said: View Post
    The only issue with that is that they failed to point it out in the previous 30 years really. Ramona was able to shift at will and the doctor was basically show her the ropes of the universe - but she had full control and he has absolutely none? Don't recall that being explained. Seemingly, up until Missy, i don't think we ran across a cross-gender regen. And i'm not saying it's right, but it's quite possible some just assumed that was the case.

    Still, should be a fair question that at the age of 2500+ now, why does the doctor have zero control over how he regenerates. And for that matter, why couldn't he simply say, i like this incarnation and regen as his present self?

    As you say, the odds are extremely improbable that if it's truly random that he wouldn't have been a woman by now. And even less that he'd be a white male 13 consecutive times.
    The Romana regeneration was shiiiiiiiiite, never knew why they didn't have her regenerate during an adventure.

    I'll wait to see how well she plays the role before I pass judgement, though I am nervous that if I feel she doesn't play the part well I'll also be labelled as "misogynistic".
  11. Dessa's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
    From
    Seattle, WA
    Messages
    409
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 4:51 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #886

    cboath said: View Post
    Seemingly, up until Missy, i don't think we ran across a cross-gender regen. And i'm not saying it's right, but it's quite possible some just assumed that was the case.
    In The Doctor's Wife, the Doctor mentions that the Corsair has been female at least twice, but we didn't see either version on-screen.

    Interestingly enough, though, other than Eleven questioning if he was female when he regenerated, the question of possibility had never come up before. Neil Gaiman threw it in as a throwaway aside, and it stayed in.
  12. Angelus Lupus's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2010
    From
    Kent, UK
    Messages
    2,304
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 6:39 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #887

    Xmas trailer: (spoilers)


    Looks great... apart from Mark Gatiss, again!
  13. Zombie_61's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2007
    From
    Southern California
    Messages
    5,098
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 7:25 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #888

    cboath said: View Post
    ...And for that matter, why couldn't he simply say, i like this incarnation and regen as his present self?...
    You know the answer to that question--regeneration is nothing more than a plot device (albeit a brilliant one) they came up with as an in-universe explanation for a different actor taking over the role. There would be no reason for The Doctor to regenerate if the current actor isn't leaving. Also, at this point it would likely be perceived as screwing with the audience and would raise questions the production staff is unprepared to answer.
  14. Victor3's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2013
    Messages
    340
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 8:32 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #889

    And, don't forget that Tennant basically did regenerate into himself. Iirc, he redirected to excess energy into his severed hand, resulting in John Smith, who took off with Rose.
    Still counted as a regeneration though, so Tennant was actually Doctor 11 & 12.
  15. Dessa's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
    From
    Seattle, WA
    Messages
    409
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 8:41 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #890

    So, apparently Moffat is saying that there's "no backlash" over a female Doctor, and it's just made up by the media. http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/doct...-4-1202504042/
    Last edited by Dessa; 4 Weeks Ago at 8:43 PM. Reason: better source
  16. JD's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2000
    From
    Metro Detroit
    Messages
    5,066
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 9:31 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #891

    Dessa said: View Post
    So, apparently Moffat is saying that there's "no backlash" over a female Doctor, and it's just made up by the media. http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/doct...-4-1202504042/
    He's not totally off base - recent poll showed 14% negative reaction against the casting. But, the truth be told: most people didn't care.
  17. Zombie_61's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2007
    From
    Southern California
    Messages
    5,098
    4 Weeks Ago  Jul 23, 2017, 10:18 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #892

    I wouldn't say there is "no" backlash, but based on what I've read on other forums it has so far been relatively minor. Some people say they've been expecting a female Doctor for a while now, some question their motives for casting a woman in the role, and others say they really don't care, but very few have expressed displeasure on the matter.

    I didn't grow up watching Doctor Who, so I'm in the "don't care" camp and will wait until I've seen at least a few episodes before I weigh in on the issue.
  18. Cephus's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2015
    Messages
    655
    3 Weeks Ago  Jul 24, 2017, 1:36 AM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #893

    JD said: View Post
    He's not totally off base - recent poll showed 14% negative reaction against the casting. But, the truth be told: most people didn't care.
    Most people don't care because they just want Moffat to go away.
  19. JD's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2000
    From
    Metro Detroit
    Messages
    5,066
    3 Weeks Ago  Jul 24, 2017, 5:19 AM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #894

    Cephus said: View Post
    Most people don't care because they just want Moffat to go away.
    Most people don't care because either they don't watch or it really doesn't matter to them.
  20. Cephus's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2015
    Messages
    655
    3 Weeks Ago  Jul 24, 2017, 10:20 AM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #895

    JD said: View Post
    Most people don't care because either they don't watch or it really doesn't matter to them.
    Obviously, we're not talking about people who don't watch the show and probably have no idea who Steven Moffat is.
  21. SethS's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2016
    From
    Los Angeles
    Messages
    1,492
    3 Weeks Ago  Jul 24, 2017, 12:08 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #896

    On the topic of regeneration control...

    There's a line from 10 to 11 in the 50th anniversary: "Regeneration—- it’s a lottery."


    I think it's always been a little from column A and B. Time Lords can assert some control in terms of physicality, but it's not 100% and the personality and psychological aspect is somewhat uncontrollable.


    That said-- I think that there's some subconscious effect. The War Doctor jokingly said he must be having a mid-life crisis to regenerate so young. A one-off, but also somewhat true given what the post-War Doctors were dealing with. 11 to 12 went "older" after he had spent time physically aging again and subconsciously chose a face to remind himself of what he was at his core.


    I also think that the Doctor's personality is one that he would think it was "cheating" to assert too much control over the process. That and/or a number of unconscious regenerations being done while out cold has left him at a bit of a disadvantage of controlling it. Plus-- again, he has trouble accepting change (save from 11 going to 12).


    The modern version of the show seems to follow this logic:


    The 8th Doctor became the War Doctor with the intent of being a soldier.


    The War Doctor had seen the worst of the Time War and was the last of his kind, and so became a cypher; on the young side, and aside from the ears relatively low key. He was brooding and mysterious until meeting Rose.


    The 9th Doctor had changed because of his time with Rose, and given where they ended up, you could say when he turned into the tenth he was subconsciously being what Rose wanted, or rather, how she made him feel-- young and alive. Total midlife crisis territory.


    That said, he lost Rose, and a bunch of other people and after being forced to turn on his own people he was at his lowest and darkest since the war. He was also vain in that he loved this version of himself and the regeneration to come was the hardest he'd have to endure knowing it was to be his last— the result of which was becoming even younger and having a very child-like personality, a personality that was forgetful-- essentially the easiest way to dodge his pain and guilt.


    This Doctor was also the most selfish and sensitive-- having "quit" a couple times, namely, after he lost something.


    Finally, like I said, he lived a long time in that body to the point he physically aged to being old and frail (for the 3rd time in his life). Having gained an "old" personality again and having worked through his mid-life crisis, he saw the benefit of having a less spastic demeanor. For the next regeneration he embraced that.


    So I'd like to think the lessons he's learned (or not learned) as the 13th will define the next in terms of gender and personality.
  22. Paul Andrew's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2002
    From
    Phoenix, Arizona, United States
    Messages
    1,677
    3 Weeks Ago  Jul 24, 2017, 1:16 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #897

    So, the wife and I are thinking about jumping back in after dropping off about 7-9 episodes into the Matt Smith run. There are a lot of episodes in between, clearly. Are there a few must see episodes that would be good to watch before the next Doctor makes her appearance, or would it be best to just consult a wiki in order to get caught up(ish)?
  23. timelordjedi777's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2010
    From
    Gallifrey (Southern Ohio)
    Messages
    775
    3 Weeks Ago  Jul 24, 2017, 1:32 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #898

    Let's not forget the 2nd to the 3rd. He was given a choice of what he would look like.
  24. JD's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2000
    From
    Metro Detroit
    Messages
    5,066
    3 Weeks Ago  Jul 24, 2017, 4:13 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #899

    Cephus said: View Post
    Obviously, we're not talking about people who don't watch the show and probably have no idea who Steven Moffat is.
    I've definitely read much more positive or uncaring comments than negative. The negative folks tend to be more vocal.
  25. Mystery Chunk RPF Premium Member PoopaPapaPalps's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    From
    IA, USA
    Messages
    2,726
    3 Weeks Ago  Jul 24, 2017, 4:20 PM - Re: Doctor Who opinions #900

    Paul Andrew said: View Post
    Are there a few must see episodes that would be good to watch before the next Doctor makes her appearance, or would it be best to just consult a wiki in order to get caught up(ish)?
    Heaven Sent. That's it.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: Dec 11, 2014, 12:40 AM
  2. Replies: 24
    Last Post: Aug 24, 2014, 1:18 PM
  3. 11th Doctor Cosplay Opinions and Tips.
    Tommyd987, Replica Costumes
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Jan 29, 2014, 11:14 AM
  4. Replies: 22
    Last Post: Jan 4, 2014, 5:15 AM